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Sometimes it's better than copying themselves.
I actually thought it was pretty rubbish in TDK. Gordon fakes his own death earlier in the film (which makes no sense) to facilitate artificial character drama for Batman and have Joker get captured. The interrogation scene is good but the escape is nowhere near as good as Lambs. SF actually does it better in my opinion and it doesn’t dwell on Silva’s escape as much as it sets us up quickly for the tube chase, which is quite a unique Bond chase. If it’s lifted for plot necessity I’d say it’s minor. Both don’t make much sense when you think about them (why is it necessary for either villain to get captured logically speaking, at least beyond the villains eagerly wanting to confront certain characters) but both are fine as we tend to get swept up in the films. For me it’s a bit like the helicopter chase in FRWL being similar to the crop duster sequence in NBNW. They’re similar and the Bond example is probably influenced by the previous film, but it doesn’t matter as they’re both individual films.
I’d say it’s pretty similar to Lambs to the point I’ve always recognised it. Again, not a criticism in itself, but I don’t think TDK improves on those basic ideas at all (again, the villain manipulating where they end up, getting the upper hand in an interrogation, thwarting guards in order to elaborately escape).
I wouldn’t say MR feels out of place with cinematic Bond’s identity. It’s an example of capitalising on Sci Fi in movies from the time, but Bond movies were so elaborate and big, and it’d teased space travel in the past. No Bond movie is a rip off (rip offs are very particular anyway, and you’d instantly recognise them. They’re not just trends).
When it comes to Moonraker, Bond in a pitched laser battle in space is for me a step too far.
My preference is that Bond films don't obviously borrow from earlier or currently successful films. I prefer not to see a new Bond film that reminds of John Wick, or The Equalizer, Batman, etc.
I have a genuine admiration for the craft of screenwriting and firmly believe there a lot of hugely talented writers in the film industry. Even with the same but different mentality, I'd like to think we can see Bond films that don't feel it necessary to borrow from other films. Yes, there will always be sequences that remind us of films and sequences we've seen before. But during a writers' conference if someone says, "let's do a Joker thing," that to me shows a lack imagination and originality.
When Eon doesn't borrow from current films, it borrows from itself. That's how we get YOLT, TSWLM, FYEO, etc.
And I think you're missing my point, as it somewhat agrees with you: nothing is original. Nothing. The creativity comes in how we spin all the old stories.
I don't think at any time I advocated copying sequences like car chases, or the like.
And do you know if a writer's meeting happened where it was suggested that Bond "do a Joker thing"?
I don't think the EoN creative meetings do this at all, and it's more our perception that the Silva escape sequence is *similar* to the Joker one. But I'd put money down on the fact that this Skyfall sequence was created organically, without the writers consciously saying, "ohhh this is just like in The Dark Knight!"...
Do you think they also watched Austin Powers and said, "brilliant!! Powers and Dr Evil are brothers!! Let's crib this, and make Blofeld and Bond brothers too!!", or;
"Hey, in Home Alone, Culkin builds homemade contraptions to foil the two goons. Let's borrow this concept for Bond in our Skyfall climax!"...
Audience perceptions, but organic creative writing.
This is somewhat why it's so hard to prove plagiarism in screenwriting, or why two films, with similar subjects, are released in the same year.
Creatively we all pull from the same well!!
I don't personally care whether Bond films set trends at this point. I just want them to be Bond movies.
Hannibal didn't want to be captured, though. He was already in prison. And the whole sequence of Silva's escape and attack on M was clearly , right down to the dialogue ("he wanted us to capture him") and escaping in a stolen police car, cribbed from TDK. So was some of the music (the piece that plays when M and Kincaid sneak out of Skyfall sounds exactly like Batman's theme) and imagery (Bond standing on a rooftop overlooking his city as his coat flaps around him like a cape, not very Bondian). The filmmakers clearly saw what Nolan did with Batman and said, "Let's do that, but for Bond."
Of course, Bond movies were always products of their time. The early Connery films were very Hitchcockian. LALD capitalized off of Blaxploitation, TMWTGG off the Bruce Lee/martial arts fad in early 70s. Moonraker was made before FYEO solely because of Star Wars' success. Licence to Kill's more brutal approach to Bond fits squarely into violent 80s action fare like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. Die Another Day takes its goofy aesthetic from early 2000s action shlock like xXx and the F&F movies, not to mention video games.
But none of that ever made me think, "they're just copying [x franchise]." Skyfall was simply too blatant, to the point where it didn't seem to have its own identity as a movie. I don't think it's a bad movie on its own, just a bad Bond movie.
Probably not, but perception is reality, so…
Like I said, Lambs involves Lecter effectively manipulating where he ends up. It’s always felt cut from the same cloth but nowhere near as good in TDK. SF just uses the basic idea and leads into a unique Bond chase. If it’s been cribbed i personally didn’t feel it that much as they feel like different films (especially the police car stuff - never thought of that as it’s such a blink and you’ll miss it moment in TDK but so prominent to the plot in SF).
I’m really having to squint to see a lot of that to be completely honest with you mate (the stuff about Bond on a rooftop looking over London especially. For me I just don’t see it as being anything like TDK. The cinematography of TDK reminds me more of Heat than any other film before or since).
It’s like I said in another thread, it’s interesting how we can view the same film so differently. I think it’s one of the best Bond films and succeeds on that level.
Agreed.
Once again, we are all pulling from the same creative well.
I visit some relatives once a year for a long weekend, currently the kids are 13 and 8 years old
Their natural inclination is to spend every waking moment of every day on a computer playing games, unless forced not to. Last year it was Minecraft, this year its Roblox.
It doesn't matter what the weather is like outside, they remain unmoved (I guess adults can take some of the blame for that for having damaged the ozone and increasing the likelyhood of skin cancer).
They don't watch any TV programs anymore, but do sometimes watch movies. When they have friends over to visit they all sit around in a circle playing a communal game on their devices. They interact verbally, but visually their eyes remain glued to their personal screens
It reminds me of some sort of Sci-Fi / Horror movie like "The Midwich Cuckoos" or "Children of the Corn".
I foresee a future with no performing arts at all, outside of those who make computer games...
I planned to watch a lot of TV this weekend in order to make the most of my last day of Amazon Prime. Instead I’ve played hours and hours of Hades. Even my sister has a Switch. Video games are only going to become more dominant, and Eon are smart to be exploring that aspect of the Bond franchise.
I'm a millennial. I think that parents playing video games with their kids will be as common as tossing a ball in the yard. My generation will probably be the first generation to do that. Actors will be pretty much needed in every media possible. So don't worry. Some kids will favor the older stuff. James Bond will be no different.
So perhaps the conversation isn’t about whether people will continue to enjoy Bond — I’m confident they will — but more about the format. In an era of fast consumption and shorter attention spans, especially with the younger generation, people may prefer content that's delivered in shorter, more manageable segments. And with Amazon’s acquisition of MGM, I’d be surprised if they don’t explore this within the next 10 years, especially before Bond enters the public domain.
As long as there’s some form of cinema (ideally that gets that initial theatrical release) there’ll be Bond films. Video games and tv will and have existed alongside cinema and are equally valid.
EON finished filming the last Bond movie in October 2019 and they won't start filming the next one for several years.
Let that sink in.
Oh and there’s also that tiny issue of replacing one of the, if not the most beloved actor to play Bond…
I'm trying to work out why I care...Oh, because I don't.
Film making is not quite as easy as it appears in your head.
Let that sink in.
Unless you are Woody Allen or Adam Sandler, no.
You obviously don’t read the posts of Colonel_Venus @CrabKey
or
@Colonel_Venus - Did you say that?
@CrabKey its all open to interpretation, but this to me is saying that a master like Nolan would’ve scripted and be ready to shoot shortly, if he were given the green light from EON.
As if EON are sat on their hands while we all wait for Bond 26.
The truth however is film making is not quite that straightforward. Add to that that EON are under no obligation or on any time frame to release the next Bond film.
We can discuss and debate as much as we like, but they hold all the cards. We’re fans who have no control over anything that happens.