Is a black James Bond inevitable ?

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  • Posts: 1,856
    Let's make Thelma and Louise with men
    Lets make mississippi burning with a all white cast
    Let's make king kong with a lion

    See where I'm going for this
  • I sincerely hope not but with Barbara Broccoli being the super p.c. person she is I think there's a good chance. It would be ridiculous though. JAMES BOND IS A WHITE MAN. That's the way Fleming wrote him and that's the way he's been portrayed for nearly 50 years. Why would they have to disregard all that history just to prove a point and make p.c. audiences and liberals happy?

    If black people are upset that there aren't enough famous black characters in cinema then create some.
  • Posts: 1,856
    @DoubleOhhSeven and when we create bad guy roles the word raciest gets tossed around

    and BB will probably know that Fleming, Her Father and (Insert # of MI6 Members here) would kill her...
  • Posts: 19,339
    There is another thread - 'How would you feel if a BLACK James Bond was cast' http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/772/how-would-you-feel-if-a-black-james-bond-was-casts/p3#Item_84
    but this discussion is a little different.


    So, do you think that, in this day and age, a black Bond is inevitable ? I was at the pub last night with a couple of friends, and suddenly the discussion turns to this one precisely... Anything I said about 'Bond is a white character'... automaticly made everyone at the pub think I was racist.

    So the question hit my on the head - is a black Bond inevitable ? Will the PC world lead to a Black Bond ? I tried to explain to them that Fleming had wrote Bond to the fine details... And they still insinuated I was racist AND that Fleming's novels were very much outdated by now...

    **Feel free to lock the thread if it is too similar to the other thread**
    No it's not inevitable...if it happens then me and Bond will go our seperate ways.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    No it's not inevitable...if it happens then me and Bond will go our seperate ways.
    Can't disagree, barry. I think that would be the point where it stops for me too. It might perhaps be 'James Bond' but it wouldn't be 'Ian Fleming's James Bond'. Only the latter interests me.

  • Posts: 19,339
    Yep,i would keep the DVD's i have and watch the 22 (or hopefully at least 25 if Craig continues) films with nostalgia.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    The answer is 'no'. It's not inevitable and kind of stupid too. What would the film benefit from a black guy playing a spy with Scottish-French-Swiss ancestry? You wouldn't want a white guy play a Chinese worrior too, now would you?

    So, the question stands: what would Bond benefit from a colour-change? If there's no plusses, only a lot of die-hard fans who'd abandon the franchise.
  • Ditto going the other way if this happens. I hope I'm dead before Bond is played by a black man, and as "PC" as Barbara Broccoli is often accused of being, I would think and hope she knows better. If this is the case, then we should be able to see non-black actors playing established black roles. PC is PC.
  • Let's make Thelma and Louise with men
    Lets make mississippi burning with a all white cast
    Let's make king kong with a lion

    See where I'm going for this
    Like the Bond/Shaft comparison the above comparisons are false.

    Thelma and Louise's genders are the defining aspect of their characters. Bond's (in this discussion) is his nationality, not race. However, if someone suggested making the character of Bond a female then I would agree that a comparison to switching the genders of both Thelma and Louise would be an accurate analogy.

    The races of the characters in Mississippi Burning informed the way they acted and were historically accurate. Bond is a fictional character and doesn't act the way he does simply because he's white.

    King Kong with a lion? Hmm, maybe... ;-)

    If we were making a period piece Bond film with the character the way he was in the books then yes, a black Bond wouldn't work. But for the "movie Bond" in a film set in 2011? There's no reason that a white person *must* be cast. If the best actor for the role was black then I'd rather he get it than a lesser actor. Much like how I don't care that Craig has blond hair because he's so good as the character of Bond. They never had a line of dialogue in CR or QoS (or probably any other Bond film) that mentioned that Bond was from Scots/French Swiss background - how did that make the movies worse than if they *had* said it? I can't see how CR or QoS would have been improved if Craig had dyed his hair and eyebrows black - why do people think it matters?

  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited August 2011 Posts: 3,262
    I sincerely hope not but with Barbara Broccoli being the super p.c. person she is I think there's a good chance. It would be ridiculous though. JAMES BOND IS A WHITE MAN. That's the way Fleming wrote him and that's the way he's been portrayed for nearly 50 years. Why would they have to disregard all that history just to prove a point and make p.c. audiences and liberals happy?
    To show how "courageous" and "cutting edge" they are. We know they're "courageous" and "cutting edge" because they tell us so themselves.
    If black people are upset that there aren't enough famous black characters in cinema then create some.
    That makes too much sense for many folks of all races in Hollywood, DoubleOhhSeven. ;-)
  • Posts: 1,856
    Let's make Thelma and Louise with men
    Lets make mississippi burning with a all white cast
    Let's make king kong with a lion

    See where I'm going for this
    Like the Bond/Shaft comparison the above comparisons are false.

    Thelma and Louise's genders are the defining aspect of their characters. Bond's (in this discussion) is his nationality, not race. However, if someone suggested making the character of Bond a female then I would agree that a comparison to switching the genders of both Thelma and Louise would be an accurate analogy.

    The races of the characters in Mississippi Burning informed the way they acted and were historically accurate. Bond is a fictional character and doesn't act the way he does simply because he's white.

    King Kong with a lion? Hmm, maybe... ;-)
    No you don't see where i'm going with this....

    Its the same i mean this as in YOU WOULDN'T!!! i wasn't pitching!!!


  • edited August 2011 Posts: 4,622

    Like the Bond/Shaft comparison the above comparisons are false.

    Thelma and Louise's genders are the defining aspect of their characters. Bond's (in this discussion) is his nationality, not race.

    I think your in a different discussion. The thread title says "black James Bond" Black would be a racial distinction not a nationality.
    But for the "movie Bond" in a film set in 2011? There's no reason that a white person *must* be cast. If the best actor for the role was black then I'd rather he get it than a lesser actor.
    How very progressive of you. >:D< How about an Asian actor while we're at it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    But for the "movie Bond" in a film set in 2011? There's no reason that a white person *must* be cast. If the best actor for the role was black then I'd rather he get it than a lesser actor.
    In that case, I rather get no actor at all and so no Bond film at all.

    There's every bit of reason why a white man must be cast. Because Bond is the sum of many parts. One of these parts involves him to be of white ethnicity. It's one of the quintessential elements of his looks. Remove it, and you no longer have Bond.
  • Posts: 1,856
    Like Will Smith Playing Indy
  • Posts: 80
    I doubt Mr Bond will change colour anytime soon. Hollywood and the American Cinema going viewer, don’t exactly welcome diversity and besides they already have their quota of black stars.

    People of colour rarely get top billing and more often than not they are used as cannon fodder, rarely heroic, are either drug dealers, pimps, uncle toms, servants, rapists, killers, the undesirable or the token buddy and expendable character who gets killed off first in films.

    People of colour are already competing for parts which they should naturally get first dabs at but we don’t seem to blink or object much when whites black up or portray other races/nationalities be it Cleopatra, Othello and the likes of Gerard Butler Scottish accent and all as a mighty Spartan and Angelina Jolie as Marianne Pearl etc, so the chances of whites giving up the big iconic role to a black actor is pretty slim.
  • Posts: 102
    no because "once you go black you never go back".
  • edited August 2011 Posts: 46
    I think this is a very interesting topic. Let me start by saying that I don't think James will ever be played by a black actor, and I think that is because he was a novel character first. If he were only a film character, I think it would be highly possible as long as the series goes on for another couple decades or so. However, I think there are way too many people like us that would be opposed to it, that they would never disrespect Flemming's work or risk losing their true fans just to be politically correct. That would be an awful financial decision, and I think the people who make the big bucks realize that.

    As far as the video that was posted earlier on this thread, I would have two things to say in response to that. First is that I would say most of those people have never read or possibly don't even know that James Bond was a novel character first and not just a action-movie super spy. So like I said earlier, if you are just looking at the film character, then I can definitely see it. I think that also explains why some of them were suggesting American black actors to play the role, because they only know the film version, and anyone who is a true Bond fan would never suggest that an American could play Bond.

    The second thing I would say in response to the video is that it was obviously made by Americans, and being from America, I can tell you that there has been an ongoing struggle since the Civil Rights movement about this kind of stuff. Call it being "politically correct," or call it what you like, but the American community (as well as the British community to an extent I would assume) has always struggled with the "let's make up for everything" effect. A lot of Americans (white and black both) believe that we should allow blacks as many opportunities like this as possible in order to somehow make up for things blacks have suffered through like slavery, segregation, and racism. Another example is the novel Huckleberry Finn. The novel is a monumental piece of American literature, but there is an ongoing debate over whether or not to teach it in public schools because of its depiction of slavery. Many believe we should simply not teach kids about slavery and racism so they will never learn to be racists. I, however, am a firm believer in the old phrase "anyone who fails to learn from the past is doomed to repeat it." I think that rather than neglecting events in our past and changing fundamental things in white culture (even things like james being white which is minuscule in the grand scheme of things) we should simply be more willing to glorify things in black culture. More movies should be made about black heroes, new stories about black heroes should be written, and we should encourage new ideas within the black community. Instead we have somehow come to the point where we try to mesh black culture and white culture in places where it shouldn't be forced to mesh.

    The final thing I will say is that we will never truly be rid of racism until we stop accusing people of racism. @DaltonCraig007 It was wrong of your friend to accuse you of being a racist just because you believe that Flemming's work should continue to be followed. Until the day comes where the white community can look at business or a movie that is firmly based in black culture and not think it racist, and the black community can look at a situation like this one and say "It's ok for James Bond to be white because that's the way it's supposed to be," we will never truly be rid of racism.

    Sorry I wrote a novel on here, but like I said earlier, this is a very interesting topic to me.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    @shutch7 excellent post! Not much to add there.

    @thelordflashheart the question is: is it inevitable? Your reasoning only says it makes it possible. You may not have anything against a blonde Bond, but remember the backlash that was generated after Craigs presentation?
    We here love to say that was only becouse of one nutcase, but the truth is, many opposed him becoming Bond. And that was just haircolour!
    Sure Bond's background wasn't mentioned in the film, but it was on the official internet page.
    I personally think it's not only not inevitable, but highly unlikely. You'd alter so much of the character, even if it was a black man that went to Eaton thanks to an old aunt, etc. etc. Equality doesn't mean copying, it means same worth. SO, no, not a black Bond.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited August 2011 Posts: 13,978
    I'm not keen on this idea. However, Eklund does name Adrian Lester as a candidate, i'd actually like to see him in Bond film, though not as Bond. As shown in Hustle, he's got charisma and charm in spades, so I think he could make in interesting villain.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    I'm not keen on this idea. However, Eklund does name Adrian Lester as a candidate, i'd actually like to see him in Bond film, though not as Bond. As shown in Hustle, he's got charisma and charm in spades, so I think he could make in interesting villain.
    Seconded. I'd love to see him in a major role, sadly this implies villain as most allies are minor characters.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I'm not keen on this idea. However, Eklund does name Adrian Lester as a candidate, i'd actually like to see him in Bond film, though not as Bond. As shown in Hustle, he's got charisma and charm in spades, so I think he could make in interesting villain.
    Seconded. I'd love to see him in a major role, sadly this implies villain as most allies are minor characters.
    I hope that can be changed at some point. Even if that means Felix being the more prominent character, anything would be an improvement.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2011 Posts: 15,718
    Lester would only work as Bond if Craig decides to quit tomorrow. Lester will be 44 for B23, which is the latest he could possibly start... Unless you want an even OLDER debuting Bond than Moore (Lester will be 46 by B24 in 2014).
  • No, I don't think so unless the world goes pc mad. At the end of the day it's not about race, it's about keeping the integrity of the subject matter. Bond is flemming's creation and his description of 007 should remain so as much as possible. What next, Sherlock Holmes as a muslim from the middle east? How about Shaft as a white russian or a Bollywood production featuring only eskimos? See my point?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I think the more and more I think about it, the more I realize I'm honestly not sure if I would quit watching Bond. Would I just take the inital 23 films and only watch those if, for example, we had a black Bond with Bond 24? Or would I suck it up and try to enjoy it? I just think that Fleming made him white, he has always been white, and that's how we have established the character - a white, British male. Granted, I would probably give the film a shot, but making Bond black wouldn't be some big positive to me.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    myworldisenough - Sherlock Holmes has been played by Americans and French actors...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    myworldisenough - Sherlock Holmes has been played by Americans and French actors...
    Exactly. Building off what you're saying, taking a Middle Eastern Muslim and transforming him into a white English character is not the same as taking a white American actor (Downey Jr. as Holmes) and transforming him into a white English character. You see the English-to-American transformation all the time: Hugh Laurie as House, Daniel Craig as Jake Lonergan, and now Henry Cavill as Superman.
  • DaltonCraig007, no doubt Holmes has been played by American and French actors, just as you could say Bond has been played by an Australian (OHMSS). The point I was making is that to me it would be implusable for a middle Eastern muslim actor to play Holmes, unless you wish to re-write the character of Holmes and his fictional lineage. To me, that would be disrespectful to both Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and to Ian Fleming who created their characters as they envisaged them. Creasy47 I agree, it is easy to turn english to american and vice versa. I would have no problem with an american playing Bond as long as they played him as British. Downey Jr as Holmes was great btw.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited August 2011 Posts: 11,139


    If black people are upset that there aren't enough famous black characters in cinema then create some.

    What has this got to do with anything? This isn't about whether or not black people are upset about the lack of famous black characters, the topic of discussion is pretty clear. Is a black James Bond inevitable? Imo the answer is no but it MAY be possible but I doubt it will ever happen any time soon. Yes, you pointed out the obvious fact that Bond is a white man and being PC has nothing to do with the casting of Bond. He isn't a minor or supporting character, he's an iconic protagonist that is firmly embedded in British culture with deep rooted signature traits.
    However, you would do well to realise that black people in general as you appeared to make out aren't crying to have certain white characters being made black but what you're also proposing is easier said than done. There is a lot of racial obstruction and other various problems that still roam the corridors of Hollywood but that's another matter entirely.
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    Posts: 1,699
    It probably is inevitable eventually - if the cinematic Bond lasts that long, that is. But I doubt it'll be for some years yet; the mood of the fans, for one thing, is clearly not for it right now...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    It's been going strong for 50 years. It's almost always worked, I don't see why they would need to make such a drastic change to the character just yet. Now, if the next three or four films dropped financially and people started to gripe about Craig and the race of the character, then yes, I could see them making a change - possibly with another reboot - and giving that a shot. But until then, Bond is doing well: why change it?
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