The Living Daylights vs. Licence to Kill

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  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    LTK definitely is more towards my favor, but that's probably because Talisa Soto and Carey Lowell is the best Bond Girl Duo in the franchise :P

    Have to respectfully disagree there. Nothing tops the Luciana Paluzzi/Claudine Auger combo from TB in my book. ;)
  • Hard to decide - TLD is the most fun film, with a more relaxed Dalton... but LTK features a rather cracking duo between Bond and Q in the field...

    Nice to see Desmond get to have so much to do and I thought that he and Dalton worked quite well together. Really cool to see how important friendship and loyalty was in Bond's world (and mirrored in Sanchez's in a more strict and less sincere way - loyalty derived from fear is not loyalty).

    I saw TLD in a theatre a while back and enjoyed it, although it seemed a bit blander than I remember. I think that it's a more...cohesive film all the way through than LTK. But when LTK hits the highs it really is excellent and it had more of a sense of the story being a journey than TLD did. One of my favourite Bond moments is Dalton sitting all beaten up after finally killing Sanchez - are there any other moments in the series where Bond has earned his victory as much as this?
  • Posts: 11,425
    TLD is a better and more enjoyable movie but LTK has good moments. The thing I always disliked about LTK was when Bond kicks M and runs off. I don't know if that scene has a Fleming source or not but for me it seems out of character. Bond kicking M?
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    TLD is a better and more enjoyable movie but LTK has good moments. The thing I always disliked about LTK was when Bond kicks M and runs off. I don't know if that scene has a Fleming source or not but for me it seems out of character. Bond kicking M?

    Well he did try and kill M in MWTGG but that was when he was brainwashed.

    LTK IS Bond out of character. It's a slightly misguided attempt to show Bond's vengeful side.
  • Posts: 11,425
    yes not entirely successful. i thought it fell flat a little after dalton's enjoyable first film.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Getafix wrote:
    TLD is a better and more enjoyable movie but LTK has good moments. The thing I always disliked about LTK was when Bond kicks M and runs off. I don't know if that scene has a Fleming source or not but for me it seems out of character. Bond kicking M?

    Ah, but Bond doesn't kick M, he kicks M's armed guard whom is standing next to M.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    yes not entirely successful. i thought it fell flat a little after dalton's enjoyable first film.

    I like LTK but I watched it recently soon after OHMSS and something just didn't seem right.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote:
    TLD is a better and more enjoyable movie but LTK has good moments. The thing I always disliked about LTK was when Bond kicks M and runs off. I don't know if that scene has a Fleming source or not but for me it seems out of character. Bond kicking M?

    Ah, but Bond doesn't kick M, he kicks M's armed guard whom is standing next to M.

    Really? In my mind it was always M he kicks. Will have to rewatch.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Getafix wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    TLD is a better and more enjoyable movie but LTK has good moments. The thing I always disliked about LTK was when Bond kicks M and runs off. I don't know if that scene has a Fleming source or not but for me it seems out of character. Bond kicking M?

    Ah, but Bond doesn't kick M, he kicks M's armed guard whom is standing next to M.

    Really? In my mind it was always M he kicks. Will have to rewatch.

    It looks like it's M, but it's actually the bodyguard. EON may take some diversions from Flemings books, but they would never have gone as far as to have Bond assault M.
  • Posts: 11,425
    In that case I blame the camerawork!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited December 2011 Posts: 13,978
    I wouldn't blame the camera work. There's shot of Bond kicking the guard who is wearing a gray suit, no waistcoat with a black tie. It couldn't be M, as M is wearing a gray suit, a matching waistcoat and a red tie. :-B
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 2,341
    LTK. It ranks as one of my favorites while TLD falls somewhere in between. I liked the film but the weak villian, the stereotype big bad blond guy and the set action pieces like Bond by the numbers. Now LTK is a dark, moody, kick you in your balls movie. I think it is the best film since OHMSS.
    As for TLD with the light villians, we must remember: the script was written with Roger Moore in mind. thus so many of the light hearted elements in the film.

    LTK really played to Dalton's strengths and unlike other Bonds, Dalton went out on top. Connery with DAF, Moore with AVTAK, Brosnan with DAD all Bond's fell flat in their final film but Dalton really kicked ass in LTK.

    That said, I did like TLD the intensity of Dalton, the fight in the air with Necros all make this a memorable film and very enjoyable to watch. It is not as good as LTK but it is not as bad as several other films...
  • Posts: 11,189
    LTK really seems to divide fans.
  • Posts: 11,425
    the pts in tld is one of my favourites. a great intro for dalton. compare it with brossa arriving upside down in a toilet cubicle in GE.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    i love both of Dalton's outings as Bond, and feel like (as most here) that he rightfully deserved a 3rd go... but thats neither here nor there...

    in terms of which i like better, I give the edge to The Living Daylights - it really brought the edge back to Bond after the lighthearted Sir Rog bowed out after AVTAK.. Dalton sold me as a 00 with a license to kill right from the start - he had some scenes that i could not picture Rog at his age doing convincingly (and not just the action).. but he also showed that he could put on a bit of the charm as well to get what he needs - not from the romance department, but in posing as Koskov's friend when first meeting Kara... but i feel like more so than LTK, this really hit all the traditional Bond formula elements, and was really a well scripted thriller / action adventure.. the title theme, though it makes absolutely no sense lyrically is still one of my favorites... Barry, arguably provides one of his best scores (as his final Bond score).. and even the secondary songs by The Pretenders are quite good.

    Licence To Kill for some reason felt like more of a product of it's time - in the time where films like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon were extremely popular, this kind of felt like it was trying to force itself into that mold... the Bond elements are still there, but it's heavily coated by the "Renegade Cop out for revenge" motif.... it was a bit of a swerve, and took the series into a more violent realm - originally Rated R, they had to scale back some of the violence to get the PG-13 rating... But again, this is another terrific outing as Bond by Dalton - and i even love his line, a nod to Ernest Hemingway, in scene at Hemingway's house when his license has been revoked... it's hard for me to choose one over the other... but as i said, TLD felt more like a Bond film, whereas LTK felt more stereotypical of the mid to late 80s action/revenge films - just with Bond.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    the pts in tld is one of my favourites. a great intro for dalton. compare it with brossa arriving upside down in a toilet cubicle in GE.

    I like that opening.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    the pts in tld is one of my favourites. a great intro for dalton. compare it with brossa arriving upside down in a toilet cubicle in GE.

    I like that opening.

    tld or ge? ge pts sucks big time. chasing planes through the sky with dodgy blue screen and zero sense of reality? gimme a break. GE gets off to an awful start and never recovers.

  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I LIKE THE PTS OF GE DESPITE THE DODGY BLUE SCREEN!!!!

    Heck I like GE - shoot me!
  • I will say that I thought Brosnan's buildup and introduction in TND was much better than GE's. It's almost as if they were apologizing to the fans and trying again. Why else would they do it only 2 years later. Bond giving a soilder a lite offscreen before punchin him is just something I could see Connery doing. Minus the filthy habit line as he smoked quite a bit.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I will say that I thought Brosnan's buildup and introduction in TND was much better than GE's. It's almost as if they were apologizing to the fans and trying again. Why else would they do it only 2 years later. Bond giving a soilder a lite offscreen before punchin him is just something I could see Connery doing. Minus the filthy habit line as he smoked quite a bit.

    Perhaps BUT we didn't get an awesome bungee jump before it. The bungee jump (for me) makes the final reveal a bit more exciting although I do like the one in Dies too.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I will say that I thought Brosnan's buildup and introduction in TND was much better than GE's. It's almost as if they were apologizing to the fans and trying again. Why else would they do it only 2 years later. Bond giving a soilder a lite offscreen before punchin him is just something I could see Connery doing. Minus the filthy habit line as he smoked quite a bit.

    totally agree. tnd pts is far superior.

  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I LIKE THE PTS OF GE DESPITE THE DODGY BLUE SCREEN!!!!

    Heck I like GE - shoot me!

    Just in case you havent seen it before, try watching this to get an understanding of why so many people hate GE and the other brossa movies.

    http://haphazardstuff.com/TheBrosnanAgeGoldenEye.html

  • Posts: 4,762
    Can't remember if I've already commented on this enough. Oh well! I prefer License to Kill over The Living Daylights, because I enjoy a more hard-edged, dark Bond movie. That's why GE, FRWL, and LTK are my top three. I think Bond works well in a more serious enviroment. Of course there are exceptions, but that's my general opinion.
  • Posts: 11,425
    00Beast wrote:
    Can't remember if I've already commented on this enough. Oh well! I prefer License to Kill over The Living Daylights, because I enjoy a more hard-edged, dark Bond movie. That's why GE, FRWL, and LTK are my top three. I think Bond works well in a more serious enviroment. Of course there are exceptions, but that's my general opinion.

    GE 'dark'? Is that how people see it? Not sure FRWL is particularly dark either tbh.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I LIKE THE PTS OF GE DESPITE THE DODGY BLUE SCREEN!!!!

    Heck I like GE - shoot me!

    Just in case you havent seen it before, try watching this to get an understanding of why so many people hate GE and the other brossa movies.

    http://haphazardstuff.com/TheBrosnanAgeGoldenEye.html

    I've watched all of his Bond videos... and there is a lot I do agree with him on, especially about DAD - but, i do have to say, Brosnan was a popular Bond - his films all made buckets of cash... during his tenure, i don't remember hearing mass amount of complaints from the general public..... I'm am not the biggest Brosnan supporter - I enjoyed his time, but I also recognize all the faults... but his Bond being almost universally hated? - that I believe is an extreme exaggeration..

    while GE's PTS does have it's laughably bad moment, I still feel it's one of the stronger ones in the franchise, and GE itself is on the better half of Bond films - and it's probably without question Brosnan's best film as 007.... there have been far worse things in the Bond cannon than jumping off a cliff and sky diving into a plane..

    HapHazard's commentary, is bias - there is no denying that... he hates Brosnan, point blank - and makes you well aware of it right off the bat - so naturally his criticisms are going to be a lot harsher than on any of the other Bond films/eras he reviews.. so, there is a lot he does in fact nitpick about... BUT - he does also provide a lot of compelling arguments, especially during his reviews on DAD and TWINE when it comes to the script and story in general.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I LIKE THE PTS OF GE DESPITE THE DODGY BLUE SCREEN!!!!

    Heck I like GE - shoot me!

    Just in case you havent seen it before, try watching this to get an understanding of why so many people hate GE and the other brossa movies.

    http://haphazardstuff.com/TheBrosnanAgeGoldenEye.html

    I have seen it actually and, yes, its a very good series and he makes a lot of valid points but they are merely HIS views. In fact, while he's critical of Brosnan's films he seems to be much fairer about them than you are.

    I wouldn't actually say "so many people hate GE". It still is an extremely popular film both amongst fans and non-fans and, while its not Brozza's best performance, it has a strong set of supporting characters (something which lacked in Brozza's later films).

    You need to chill. Setting up an Anti-Brozza thread because YOU don't like him is ridiculous.

    I understand that Brozza and his films have plenty of faults but the flack he gets nowadays is just silly sometimes.

    I've already quoted this but hears what Graham Rye, editor of the longest running 007 magazine said after DAD:

    "I like Pierce Brosnan as James Bond. He’s got all the right qualities a good Bond should have: he’s tall dark and handsome, he handles the humour well, he’s believable in the action scenes—and the cinema-going public love him! Unfortunately I don’t think the films measure up to his ability as an actor to do something more with the role than he’s been allowed to show to date. In GoldenEye, a colourless drab looking film, he was given little to do except react to the other characters and situations around him. Tomorrow Never Dies was his finest hour as Bond, and I do mean hour. The first half of the movie is the best Brosnan/Bond to date, with some nice Bondian touches, up until the model of his BMW crashes off the hotel roof through a flurry of polystyrene bricks, then the film just simply rambles until it falls apart. I thoroughly enjoyed The World Is Not Enough, which had the best narrative structure of all the Brosnan/Bond films, and the story unfolded much more in the style of a Sixties’ Bond. Although the film is uneven, it’s about 200% better than the dire Die Another Day—quasi science fiction badly executed and acted by everyone but Brosnan".

    I wouldn't call him a common Mr Public fan, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to 007.
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I LIKE THE PTS OF GE DESPITE THE DODGY BLUE SCREEN!!!!

    Heck I like GE - shoot me!

    Just in case you havent seen it before, try watching this to get an understanding of why so many people hate GE and the other brossa movies.

    http://haphazardstuff.com/TheBrosnanAgeGoldenEye.html

    I have seen it actually and, yes, its a very good series and he makes a lot of valid points but they are merely HIS views. In fact, while he's critical of Brosnan's films he seems to be much fairer about them than you are.

    I wouldn't actually say "so many people hate GE". It still is an extremely popular film both amongst fans and non-fans and, while its not Brozza's best performance, it has a strong set of supporting characters (something which lacked in Brozza's later films).

    You need to chill. Setting up an Anti-Brozza thread because YOU don't like him is ridiculous.

    I understand that Brozza and his films have plenty of faults but the flack he gets nowadays is just silly sometimes.

    I've already quoted this but hears what Graham Rye, editor of the longest running 007 magazine said after DAD:

    "I like Pierce Brosnan as James Bond. He’s got all the right qualities a good Bond should have: he’s tall dark and handsome, he handles the humour well, he’s believable in the action scenes—and the cinema-going public love him! Unfortunately I don’t think the films measure up to his ability as an actor to do something more with the role than he’s been allowed to show to date. In GoldenEye, a colourless drab looking film, he was given little to do except react to the other characters and situations around him. Tomorrow Never Dies was his finest hour as Bond, and I do mean hour. The first half of the movie is the best Brosnan/Bond to date, with some nice Bondian touches, up until the model of his BMW crashes off the hotel roof through a flurry of polystyrene bricks, then the film just simply rambles until it falls apart. I thoroughly enjoyed The World Is Not Enough, which had the best narrative structure of all the Brosnan/Bond films, and the story unfolded much more in the style of a Sixties’ Bond. Although the film is uneven, it’s about 200% better than the dire Die Another Day—quasi science fiction badly executed and acted by everyone but Brosnan".

    I wouldn't call him a common Mr Public fan, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to 007.

    He describes GE as colourless and drab. I agree. I also regard TNd as the best Brosss outing esp. the first half.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    He doesn't have the petty fanboy hatred that you seem to have though.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I actually like Brossa. Just think he was a god awful Bond. He is great in The Tailor of Panama and the Ghostwriter.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    I actually like Brossa. Just think he was a god awful Bond. He is great in The Tailor of Panama and the Ghostwriter.

    I doubt Brozza would have done either of those films if he hadn't been Bond.

    The Taylor of Panama - a sleazier version of 007.

    The Ghost - he plays a man who was once in a position of power bur isn't anymore.
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