The Living Daylights vs. Licence to Kill

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  • edited January 2013 Posts: 12,837
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I LIKE THE PTS OF GE DESPITE THE DODGY BLUE SCREEN!!!!

    Heck I like GE - shoot me!

    Just in case you havent seen it before, try watching this to get an understanding of why so many people hate GE and the other brossa movies.

    http://haphazardstuff.com/TheBrosnanAgeGoldenEye.html

    Actually, GE is thought of by alot of people as the best/one of the best bond films, I don't think its brosnans best but I enjoy it. I loved brosnans bond, he had all the right qualities. TWINE is still my favourite brosnan bond film, and until craig got the part there was never much criticism of brosnan (and I think he doesn't deserve the hate he gets). BUT, as good as brosnan was, nobody could top dalton to me, which brings us back to the point of this thread.

    I love both films, but LTK takes it for me. TLD was a great film, (imo) the 2nd best in the series, but LTK is pure greatness. Its a masterpiece, dalton is at his best, the villian and story are great (THIS is how bond going for revenge should be done, not the bourne-style way QOS did it), the girls are great, the action and stunts are brilliant (the plane fishing is really cool and nolan has obviously drawn inspiration from it for TDKR), and the films finale is great. Brilliant film, my fave of all time.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    [(THIS is how bond going rogue should be done, not the bourne-style way QOS did it)

    when did Bond ever go rouge in QOS?

  • HASEROT wrote:
    [(THIS is how bond going rogue should be done, not the bourne-style way QOS did it)

    when did Bond ever go rouge in QOS?

    He went rogue right at the end for the films finale, but I didn't mean to type that, I meant bond going for revenge.
  • Posts: 11,189
    M THOUGHT he went Rogue. I think that was meant to be the idea. In LTK he actually DID go rogue.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    no he really didn't... M let him go - remember she said "he's my agent, and I trust him.".... doesn't sound like a situation where Bond is going rouge......

    as far as revenge - whether it's part of the main plot, or in a subtle way, revenge always plays a small part in the majority of Bond films.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I LIKE THE PTS OF GE DESPITE THE DODGY BLUE SCREEN!!!!

    Heck I like GE - shoot me!

    Just in case you havent seen it before, try watching this to get an understanding of why so many people hate GE and the other brossa movies.

    http://haphazardstuff.com/TheBrosnanAgeGoldenEye.html

    Actually, GE is thought of by alot of people as the best/one of the best bond films, I don't think its brosnans best but I enjoy it. I loved brosnans bond, he had all the right qualities. TWINE is still my 2nd favourite bond film, and until craig got the part there was never much criticism of brosnan (and I think he doesn't deserve the hate he gets). BUT, as good as brosnan was, nobody could top dalton to me, which brings us back to the point of this thread.

    I love both films, but LTK takes it for me. TLD was a great film, (imo) the 3rd best in the series, but LTK is pure greatness. Its a masterpiece, dalton is at his best, the villian and story are great (THIS is how bond going for revenge should be done, not the bourne-style way QOS did it), the girls are great, the action and stunts are brilliant (the plane fishing is really cool and nolan has obviously drawn inspiration from it for TDKR), and the films finale is great. Brilliant film, my fave of all time.

    No one can seriuosly claim GE is the best Bond movie. Surely?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    HASEROT wrote:
    doesn't sound like a situation where Bond is going rouge......

    It's 'rogue', not rouge... sorry to point it out... ;)
  • Posts: 11,189
    The idea was that M believed Bond was unstable. She was told that he had shot Mathis and killed Slate as well as the Quantum agent in Tosca.

    "No one can seriuosly claim GE is the best Bond movie. Surely?"

    Well its one of my favourites so deal with it!!
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2011 Posts: 4,399
    Getafix wrote:
    No one can seriuosly claim GE is the best Bond movie. Surely?

    umm... I do..... whats your point?

    *EDIT*woops.... i just reread that.... i thought you were saying Best Brosnan Bond... lol... my bad

  • Posts: 4,762
    Getafix wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    Can't remember if I've already commented on this enough. Oh well! I prefer License to Kill over The Living Daylights, because I enjoy a more hard-edged, dark Bond movie. That's why GE, FRWL, and LTK are my top three. I think Bond works well in a more serious enviroment. Of course there are exceptions, but that's my general opinion.

    GE 'dark'? Is that how people see it? Not sure FRWL is particularly dark either tbh.

    I found GE to be a darker Bond movie than most, given the eerie score, the slaughter at Severnaya, the gun fight in the archives, anything with Xenia, the meeting at the Memorial, the train confrontation, etc. As for FRWL, you've got the Cold War spying, Red Grant's assassinations, including Kerim's death, the fist fight on the train, Rosa Klebb's attack at the end, etc. I found it to be darker than some of the other Bond movies that would follow it, and I think that's what Fleming had in mind when he wrote FRWL.
  • LTK definitely is more towards my favor, but that's probably because Talisa Soto and Carey Lowell is the best Bond Girl Duo in the franchise :P

    Have to respectfully disagree there. Nothing tops the Luciana Paluzzi/Claudine Auger combo from TB in my book. ;)

    Ehh...they're pretty darn close I guess

  • If I was a few years younger I may have suggested Havelock and Dahl from For Your Eyes Only, fair enough the latter wasn't really a Bond girl so to speak but even so
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I used to think LTK as it has Dalton's Bond instead of over hangs from the Moore era, some of the dialogue in TLD was obviously for Rog so LTK was tailored to Tim.

    Though as the years have gone on since catching LTK twice in one day on it's opening Friday I think TLD has dated better and feels a more complete film and as my friend above said the production values are definitely better, also TLD has one of the best PTS of the series and a great final score from Barry.

    While LTK was tailored for Tim some of the clichés are still there and just feel quite out of place, loosing the gadgets and Q for this entry would have been a better way to go especially with revenge element, the Q sequences seem very out of place, although LTK has some terrific set pieces in it.

    I'm definitely a Tim fan and like both films more than any of the Moore and Brosnan era
    but TLD hold up the best now and I look forward to catching both on Blu ray in October.
  • Posts: 299
    On this one I have to go with Licence to Kill. As much as I like TLD (I think it's a solid debut for Dalton, and does indeed have one of Barry's best scores), I agree with Shardlake in that it does feel like a bit of a leftover from the 80's Moore era. LTK on the other hand completely plays to Dalton's strengths.

    I must admit, I hated it upon first viewing back in '89, but quickly changed my opinion and embraced its fresh and hard-edged approach. Though I too am a little skepctical of the whole Bond-going-rogue concept, I nonetheless think the movie feels more like Fleming than most others in the series, and that, to me, is a point to appreciate. I agree that the production values are stronger in TLD, as it essentially looks more like a Bond movie, but LTK still manages to be spectacular where it counts. The tanker truck chase is, in my opinion, hands down one of the best action set pieces of the entire series. Carey Lowell is one of my favorite Bond girls, I love her sass and feisty personality. Soto on the other hand, her stunning features notwithstanding, is a low point.

    But the thing that puts LTK above TLD more than any other element is the villain. It's no contest in this case. Davi really made you hate him, and as such, raised the dramatic stakes of the conflict that much more.

    All in all, after OHMSS, FRWL and CR, Licence to Kill is my favorite of the films.
  • Posts: 278
    <blockquote rel="shadowonthesun">OP is not in the same category as FRWL, FYEO and TLD. It doesn't really focus on the spying aspects; instead, it concentrates on the 'kooky' aspects of Indian culture.</blockquote>

    Well I have a different opinion on OP - IMO it's part of the ultimate Cold War thrillers with FRWL, FYEO and TLD. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

    Agreed, yes it has India, but most of OCT is cold war most definate. Great film
  • I did enjoy The Living Daylights, but I always loved License to Kill.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Both are in my top 5, but TLD wins out by a little due to the Barry score.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Ah, The Living Daylights for me, for sure.
  • Both are classic Bonds - perfect balance of grit, fun and flair. Love TD, the real heir to Connery's throne.

    I think I'll put both on tonight.

  • Posts: 82
    LTK for me. Really like dalton in this one, Robert Davi is one of the best villains in the entire series, like that Q has a bigger role here, great ending.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    If Barry had done the music, it might easily have trumped TLD for me.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    If Barry had done the music, it might easily have trumped TLD for me.

    But Michael Kamen's music was tops, too! The gunbarrel music plays in my head whenever I'm in a rage, up to this day!
  • Living Daylights, as always

    At least Bond gets out and about and isn't just restricted to one or two locations with the other. License to Kill doesn't even feel like a James Bond release sometimes when you watch, even though Dalton gives another superlative performance and Davi is a very good villain with great supporting cast from a young Benicio Del Toro

    But Daylights is probably the most Fleming-esque Bond release since From Russia With Love, and Dalton reminds me so much of Connery from '63 whenever I watch
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    TLD because of it's more "classic" approach, but I like LTK as well.
  • Posts: 501
    TLD by a thousand miles
  • Seems to quite universally accepted on here that TLD is the best soundtrack. Good, because I agree!
  • Man this is a tough one... Dalton is my favourite Bond and I really like both. Hmm.. I would give LTK the slightest edge over TLD, I think TLD has better moments (Ice chase, Bond/Pushkin hotel room confrontation, Bond/Necros fight) but it also has two of the weakest villains and can be slow paced in places.

    Whereas LTK has fantastic pace, one of the best villains, excellent set pieces and due to the different direction is overall more memorable. This was hard though because I seriously love them both :D
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    TLD, one of my favorites. music puts it over the top. and the car.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    Oddjob wrote:
    LTK for me. Really like dalton in this one, Robert Davi is one of the best villains in the entire series, like that Q has a bigger role here, great ending.

    LTK has IMO one of the single most cringe worthy sequences in the whole series- when Soto comes to the suite, "James I loff heem so mooch, I don no what I gonna do..." -straight from the Tayna Roberts school of emoting.

  • Seems to quite universally accepted on here that TLD is the best soundtrack. Good, because I agree!

    How... I'm sure I posted this in another thread. A thread about which our favorite soundtrack in the series is. Oh well, maybe I'm just confused. Wouldn't be the first time.
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