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Racism, Homophobia & Sexism in James Bond

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  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    The problem with examinations of this stripe is that they tend to approach yesterday's product with today's values. For his time, Fleming was extraordinarily open minded. Considered from a modern viewpoint, his work can be seen as being guilty of any "-ism" you'd care to name. The problem isn't with Fleming -- it's with your own unrealistic expectations of a man dead for 60 years.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited October 2015 Posts: 5,131
    RC7 wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    I've never found LALD racist. There's nothing wrong with a all black gang. Is a Triad movie racist against asians then? Mafia movie racist against Italians?

    The only racist term used in LALD is Mr Big referring to Bond as a 'honky'.

    Black people can't be racist, @NicNac.

    Ha ha ha. So true.

    If you want homophobia read DAF......"These homos make the worst killers".......(or something along those lines) in reference to Wint & Kidd.
  • eddychaputeddychaput Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 364
    Anything related to racism, sexism and homophobia was always far more intense in the original books than it ever was in the films.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    We were all racists, sexists and homophobes in the old days.

  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    Anything related to James Bond at all is more intense in the original books than in the films. It's just the nature of the beast. Fleming was the originator, the rest just follow his lead.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    We were all racists, sexists and homophobes in the old days.

    What you mean "WE", white man?

    -old joke punchline
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,306
    CatchingBullets wrote: »
    Apologies but that quoted piece from Todd Alcott is dubiously pointed to say the least - and clearly written from a straight guy's perspective which is focusing in on a very different reading that was possibly the intent.

    When Wint is bumped off, Mr Kidd is angry at the death of his lover. Why wouldn't two gay guys who are together hold hands as they walk off into a South African sunset? They are not overly homosexual in every scene they occupy. They are camp, but that is not the same thing.

    As I have noted before, Wint and Kidd are very progressive for the whole representation of gay characters. Yes, they are pinned as killers from the outset, but so is James Bond. So is Dr Kananga or Blofeld. Putter Smith particularly plays it as a west coast ex-hippy queer. I have met people like him. But NEVER on film. DIAMONDS wasn't trying to be, but it is very progressive.

    One of the increasingly dangerous elements of our world (or at least in western zones) is this damning obsession with worrying what other people might worry about.

    The DNA of Wint and Kidd can also be traced to the later gay villains Silva and Le Chiffre.

    Interesting post. There is also a hint of something going on between Graves and Zao.

    I do think there is homophobia in DAF--the way Wint goes out, specifically--just as there is sexism in GF--Dink, anyone?--but it doesn't keep me from enjoying these movies.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,218
    Can't a woman , non-Caucasian or homosexual be a villain or any other less flattering character without there being an "ism" or "phobia" involved. No doubt prejudices do still exist to some degree but too often the accusation is made when it doesn't apply.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    talos7 wrote: »
    Can't a woman , non-Caucasian or homosexual be a villain or any other less flattering character without there being an "ism" or "phobia" involved.
    NO. Evil has a white straight male franchise.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,218
    :P
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    talos7 wrote: »
    :P
    ;)
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Judging by the fact that he made an inflammatory first post and left I'd say the OP is just another troll. Mods can lock this one up.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Sark wrote: »
    Judging by the fact that he made an inflammatory first post and left I'd say the OP is just another troll. Mods can lock this one up.

    Phobism!
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    Sark wrote: »
    Judging by the fact that he made an inflammatory first post and left I'd say the OP is just another troll. Mods can lock this one up.

    Missed an opportunity to say "Locque" there.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Put on the brakes. (Sark off)
  • StamperStamper
    Posts: 387
    Well, a man is supposed to sing the new Bond theme... but we haven't found him so far.
  • TokolosheTokoloshe Under your bed
    Posts: 2,667
    Sark wrote: »
    Judging by the fact that he made an inflammatory first post and left I'd say the OP is just another troll. Mods can lock this one up.

    I totally disagree. There are unpleasant elements to Fleming's novels and some of that transferred to the early films. No point in denying it and I disapprove of censorship just because you don't like the subject.

    For the record I agree with Todd Alcott's analysis over most of DAF.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    @tokoloshe Me saying this topic is the product of a troll and should be locked shouldn't mean I disagree with what youre saying. Just that I'm drunk and that this is not the thread.
  • eddychaputeddychaput Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 364
    It is a little odd that the originator of this thread never came back to discuss the topic. I'm not one to call out 'troll!' but his/her absence since posting that is somewhat suspect.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 1,999
    Professor: "Indeed, you have found examples of sexism, racism, and homophobia in the Fleming novels. From your findings you have concluded what?"
    Student: "That is my conclusion."



  • shamanimalshamanimal
    Posts: 623
    Wasn't the Bond/Rosa coupling in LALD the first mixed race coupling in a major blockbuster or something? I'm sure I read that somewhere.
  • DRush76DRush76
    Posts: 533
    agentknight wrote:
    Hi guys,
    I am a fellow James Bond fan and A-level Film Studies student and I really wanted to look into the racism, homophobia & sexism in Goldfinger, Diamonds are forever & Live and let die. I really hope you can help me with my study and maybe I can find out things I never knew before.

    Are you speaking about the novels, the movies or both?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Since he is a film student, and mentions that in the same sentence, you can guess which it is.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    DRush76 wrote: »
    agentknight wrote:
    Hi guys,
    I am a fellow James Bond fan and A-level Film Studies student and I really wanted to look into the racism, homophobia & sexism in Goldfinger, Diamonds are forever & Live and let die. I really hope you can help me with my study and maybe I can find out things I never knew before.

    Are you speaking about the novels, the movies or both?
    A member here who grew up in an English village watched LALD as a small child and for a time believed that all non-white people were baddies as a result. This could perhaps form an interesting basis for the OP's studies (should it have had a higher film rating for instance, in order to avoid such misleading impressions)?.

    Has there ever been an openly gay good guy in a Bond film? I can't recall.

    Regarding sexism, I think film Bond tends to dislike incompetence. He warms up eventually if the women prove themselves useful.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    agentknight I hope you are able to put matters in the context of their time. If you saw any British TV of that era you would soon realise that Bond was neutral in comparison to 'Love thy Neighbour' 'Curry and Chips' Alf Garnett etc.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Guys, the poster commented for the first and last time over a year ago, then never returned after making the post. I think the discussion is dead on arrival and the relevancy of the topic is rendered beyond pointless as the paper has already been written and is likely collecting dust as we speak.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Oh, I thought this thread had been started by someone else!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    It was either someone hoping to start up a fight (since that sort of thing tends to be inevitable with topics such as this), or a legitimate student who got the help he needed and bailed. I've seen several people over the years that join to have a question answered/poll voted in, and then they never post again.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It was either someone hoping to start up a fight (since that sort of thing tends to be inevitable with topics such as this), or a legitimate student who got the help he needed and bailed. I've seen several people over the years that join to have a question answered/poll voted in, and then they never post again.

    Yes, I've seen this phenomenon on other fora as well. They are the worst kind of members, mind, as they have absolutely nothing to contribute to our community!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    To be fair to the person, he came here for honest opinions on his topic and got nothing more than sentiments resembling, "Rethink it all," or "What a joke your paper is" in return. It wasn't handled as well as it could/should have been by some. I don't read any malice in the opening post, or any hints that it was a trolling gag at our expense.
This discussion has been closed.