Use of CGI in Spectre

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    The technical aspects are interesting but for me, the litmus test is whether the letters CGI come into your head whilst watching. It could either be poor from a technical perspective or just inappropriate as it takes the level of action up to a fantasy level as it's so obvious it did not happen in the real world. IMHO, the best use of CGI is the removal of support devices which are there in case the physical stunt goes wrong but a physical person still performs the stunt. So running up the crane in CR was, to me, the perfect example of how CGI can be used to enable great physical stunts to be performed and at no point are you "taken out" of the movie.
    As for the trailer, the first time I saw it, I thought "CGI" and that's a shame because once you have thought that, it will never go away. And, of course, this thread is evidence that many have spotted in straight away

    Fair comments I would still take CGI over those old tricks the did in film like the guy sitting in a motionless car against a video wall turning the steering wheel left and right lol.

    You know, it's strange, but I actually don't mind the blue/green screen in comparison to bad CGI. I thought about it, and I think it's because at least with the screen, you know it's the actor present (e.g. Connery sitting in a Sunbeam in front of a screen in DN). The problem with CGI for me is it's some punk sitting behind a computer drawing up all this 's'. If I want a computer game, I'll buy a computer game.

    There is something terribly off about that building collapse in the trailer that takes you out of it right away (we've only seen a few seconds at most of that scene and yet people are talking about it.....which is not good). The CGI Craig is moving funny as has been mentioned, and the wall collapsing just seems off......like Avengers or San Andreas.

    I suppose EON has to be make the stunts more extraordinary to satisfy some audience demographics/foreign markets, but I'll personally take that toilet fight in the CR pretitles (including black and white) over the falling SP wall (based on what I've seen to date) any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited October 2015 Posts: 4,116
    Questionable CGI or not it's an impressive sequence ...even though reminence of CR and kudos to Bond for coming up with something that exellerating after 23 films.

    I'm going to try my best to persuade y'all to focus on the positive too instead if all the negative if it kills me.

    Y'all have got me at the point now that I just want this movie over with.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    The only questionable CGI I've seen thus far is the clipping of the plane's wings in the Austria scenes shown in the trailers. Other than that, no complaints, even (surprisingly) with the crumbling building shots.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    About those back projections.

    I have watched all the Connery movies and the Moore movies and the back projections in some of the Connery films are really not looking good in High Definition. Sadly they used it quite a bit.
    Goldfinger may be the worst of them in that regard. The whole Miami scene is a mess, you clearly see that neither Connery nor Fröbe have been there. The sequence is masterfully edited so you would never know except for that VERY visible back projections.

    I'd take bad CGI any day over that.

    Having said this, those things belong to the classic Bond movies. It doesn't hurt the movies it's just a bit annoying when Domino or Bond suddenly clearly are standing in front of a projected image in Thunderball.

    Seeing this almost gives some feelings of nostalgia.

    I bet in 2042 we will watch Die Another Day and have nostalgic feelings about those surfing scenes :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I bet in 2042 we will watch Die Another Day and have nostalgic feelings about those surfing scenes :))

    You're always an optimist @BondJasonBond006......and with a sense of humour too. I'm sure 'll have feelings for DAD in 2042, but it won't be nostalgia.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    bondjames wrote: »
    I bet in 2042 we will watch Die Another Day and have nostalgic feelings about those surfing scenes :))

    You're always an optimist @BondJasonBond006......and with a sense of humour too. I'm sure 'll have feelings for DAD in 2042, but it won't be nostalgia.

    =))
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    There is something terribly off about that building collapse in the trailer that takes you out of it right away (we've only seen a few seconds at most of that scene and yet people are talking about it.....which is not good). The CGI Craig is moving funny as has been mentioned, and the wall collapsing just seems off......like Avengers or San Andreas.

    Potentially the camera move. It's unnatural. There's a habit at the moment for having multiple roaming motion control shots that are stitched together. The building collapse shot doesn't do this, but it's from the same school. It's a floating camera. In some cases I find I can be taken out of a shot not only because of what's in front of the camera, but also what's behind. A floating cam can subconsciously register. There's also something off with the physics for me.

    And before anyone says, no, *This isn't going to ruin the film for me* and I don't see how us discussing it can ruin it for anyone else. If you can't see it, that's bloody great, I wish I was you because I'd very much like to not see it either.
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    There is something terribly off about that building collapse in the trailer that takes you out of it right away (we've only seen a few seconds at most of that scene and yet people are talking about it.....which is not good). The CGI Craig is moving funny as has been mentioned, and the wall collapsing just seems off......like Avengers or San Andreas.

    Potentially the camera move. It's unnatural. There's a habit at the moment for having multiple roaming motion control shots that are stitched together. The building collapse shot doesn't do this, but it's from the same school. It's a floating camera. In some cases I find I can be taken out of a shot not only because of what's in front of the camera, but also what's behind. A floating cam can subconsciously register. There's also something off with the physics for me.

    And before anyone says, no, *This isn't going to ruin the film for me* and I don't see how us discussing it can ruin it for anyone else. If you can't see it, that's bloody great, I wish I was you because I'd very much like to not see it either.

    This. I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned it but it's like 2012 when we saw the omega sky fall ad with the awful closeup of bond on the bike. Was convinced it wouldn't be in the film and it took me right out of it during first viewing at the bfi. Some shots aren't needed sometimes not if the audience is watching thinking well that looks fake. We all knew bond was in the grey suit doing the chasing anyway.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    There is something terribly off about that building collapse in the trailer that takes you out of it right away (we've only seen a few seconds at most of that scene and yet people are talking about it.....which is not good). The CGI Craig is moving funny as has been mentioned, and the wall collapsing just seems off......like Avengers or San Andreas.

    Potentially the camera move. It's unnatural. There's a habit at the moment for having multiple roaming motion control shots that are stitched together. The building collapse shot doesn't do this, but it's from the same school. It's a floating camera. In some cases I find I can be taken out of a shot not only because of what's in front of the camera, but also what's behind. A floating cam can subconsciously register. There's also something off with the physics for me.

    And before anyone says, no, *This isn't going to ruin the film for me* and I don't see how us discussing it can ruin it for anyone else. If you can't see it, that's bloody great, I wish I was you because I'd very much like to not see it either.

    Good point about the floating cam. I didn't notice that before but when you mentioned it I took a look at the trailer again and that could definitely be having a subliminal effect. Also, I noticed this time that the CGI Craig runs like an ox......very different from Craig running in SF.

    On an unrelated note, another part I noticed this time was Craig's delivery of "I came here to kill you!" . It's delivered with real feeling...like he means it, although it's very similar to "Some men are coming to kill us. We're going to kill them first!"
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    I think that if filmmakers are going to achieve some of the things they want to do in the movies, then CGI becomes a necessity. To be fair to the Bond team, CGI has always been a last resort when achieving a given result, with the preference being to filming it as is, rather than "fudging it" in post-production.

    Sometimes, though, they get little choice. Very often the people insuring the actors in the movie will rule (and it is their right to do so) that a particular stunt sequence cannot be performed with real people because the risk factor is too great. On these occasions, CGI is the only resort aside from re-writing the script.

    This means that CGI is something we have to accept in the movies from time to time, much like we have to accept death and taxes in real life. I, for one, am glad that CGI is here so that filmmakers can do what's needed without undue risk to the lives and safety of those concerned. I would much rather see a CGI stunt than learn of the death of the latest actor to play Bond in a stunt gone wrong that never should have been attempted in the first place.

    I think it's necessary to be able to suspend one's disbelief above CGI these days, especially in a movie franchise that's under pressure with each outing to out-do the last.

    Providing it's added as a seasoning rather than a main ingredient, CGI is okay with me.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited October 2015 Posts: 2,138
    bondjames wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    The technical aspects are interesting but for me, the litmus test is whether the letters CGI come into your head whilst watching. It could either be poor from a technical perspective or just inappropriate as it takes the level of action up to a fantasy level as it's so obvious it did not happen in the real world. IMHO, the best use of CGI is the removal of support devices which are there in case the physical stunt goes wrong but a physical person still performs the stunt. So running up the crane in CR was, to me, the perfect example of how CGI can be used to enable great physical stunts to be performed and at no point are you "taken out" of the movie.
    As for the trailer, the first time I saw it, I thought "CGI" and that's a shame because once you have thought that, it will never go away. And, of course, this thread is evidence that many have spotted in straight away

    Fair comments I would still take CGI over those old tricks the did in film like the guy sitting in a motionless car against a video wall turning the steering wheel left and right lol.

    You know, it's strange, but I actually don't mind the blue/green screen in comparison to bad CGI. I thought about it, and I think it's because at least with the screen, you know it's the actor present (e.g. Connery sitting in a Sunbeam in front of a screen in DN). The problem with CGI for me is it's some punk sitting behind a computer drawing up all this 's'. If I want a computer game, I'll buy a computer game.

    There is something terribly off about that building collapse in the trailer that takes you out of it right away (we've only seen a few seconds at most of that scene and yet people are talking about it.....which is not good). The CGI Craig is moving funny as has been mentioned, and the wall collapsing just seems off......like Avengers or San Andreas.

    I suppose EON has to be make the stunts more extraordinary to satisfy some audience demographics/foreign markets, but I'll personally take that toilet fight in the CR pretitles (including black and white) over the falling SP wall (based on what I've seen to date) any day of the week and twice on Sunday.


    You hit the nail on the head. My wife, not a Bond fan. She enjoyed Skyfall, she tries her best to try to embrace the films for my benefit and I love her for that. I took her to see Skyfall at the cinema and at the end of it I said "what did you think" and she said, "I liked his blue jacket in the escalator scene" yeah she is a tough customer!. We got tickets for Spectre. I told expected running time is 2Hrs 40 Mins she sucked through her teeth at the prospect of sitting through another Bond film.

    My wife however loves disaster movies, she loves going to the Cinema and seeing films with Tornados, Buildings collapsing, aeroplanes dropping - Godzilla, 2012, San Andreas. Not my ideal movie but I appreciate why she likes them.

    I bought tickets for the first showing opening night at the Glasgow Imax. For weeks my wife has been trying to convince me to this time take my Brother, Take a friend because she is scared of sitting bored for nearly 3 hours.

    BUT THEN! - this Spectre final trailer came and I saw her face light up with Plane crashing in to the log cabin in Austria, and then at the end with the building falling she shouted out loud "RUN! Woah that's cool! what happens?!, will he live?!, of course he will live, he's Bond". My wife is now as equally excited about seeing this movie and for that I accept CGI.

    I suppose CGI and Imax come hand in hand.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 582
    patb wrote: »
    The technical aspects are interesting but for me, the litmus test is whether the letters CGI come into your head whilst watching. It could either be poor from a technical perspective or just inappropriate as it takes the level of action up to a fantasy level as it's so obvious it did not happen in the real world. IMHO, the best use of CGI is the removal of support devices which are there in case the physical stunt goes wrong but a physical person still performs the stunt. So running up the crane in CR was, to me, the perfect example of how CGI can be used to enable great physical stunts to be performed and at no point are you "taken out" of the movie.
    As for the trailer, the first time I saw it, I thought "CGI" and that's a shame because once you have thought that, it will never go away. And, of course, this thread is evidence that many have spotted in straight away

    I completely agree. In my opinion if CGI draws attention to itself then it's not doing it's job. I rewatched the final trailer again last night to see what I made of it and the wall collapsing in Mexico actually didn't look as bad as I remembered it - although I was wathing it on a much smaller screen. Interestingly I didn't notice that about the dialogue in the hall between Bond and Oberhauser on first viewing, but now I've watched it again they are clearly superimposed on a CG set. There may be a variety of reasons for that. If they needed to pick up the shots for eg., they had to do this a bit in the LOTR films where they needed to go back and shoot extra things. A scene between Aragorn and Leglolas against a CG night sky comes to mind - but they did that very effectively.

  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    While I'm not a fan of the CGI in Skyfall I thought it was mostly done pretty well, apart from the helicopters when Silva gets captured initially on his island.

    And thank god I don't have a CGI eye because I think the collapsing building looks fine, although the initial explosion bothers me. From what I've heard (I haven't read/watched any behind the scenes stuff) all the action sequences were done for real, and from the brief glimpses in the trailers it looks fantastic.
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    Another aspect of CGI is that sometimes a scene shot on location either doesn't work out quite as well as the location crew had hoped or a script revision means having to alter the shoot in some way. When this happens, it is often more cost effective to re-do the scene with CGI, rather than haul the crew and cast out on location again. This could be down to expired shooting licences, or simply down to time and cost -- there may not be enough time left on the schedule to re-shoot.

    As an audience, we usually don't know the reasons for the substitution of CGI, but knowing things like this certainly helps me make the necessary allowances for the use of CGI.
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