SPECTRE - Press reviews and personal reviews (BEWARE! Spoiler reviews allowed)

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Your comment about London being deserted is well made - the world of this film felt very empty. That may be deliberate but I missed passer-by carnage here, if that makes sense!

    I think it is. It's not a coincidence and many have picked up on it in various locales.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited October 2015 Posts: 9,117
    RC7 wrote: »
    Your comment about London being deserted is well made - the world of this film felt very empty. That may be deliberate but I missed passer-by carnage here, if that makes sense!

    I think it is. It's not a coincidence and many have picked up on it in various locales.

    This is a good point. Did they spunk their entire extras budget in Mexico? Because Rome, London and Austria are all deserted. As is that train - why are Bond and Madeline the only people in the restaurant car? Even the waiter disappears when Hinx comes in.

    If it is deliberate to have two of Europe's capital cities deserted (apart from an Italian cliche in a Fiat 500) can someone tell me why?
  • Posts: 1,314
    One other niggle with dialogue.

    There was lots of blatant exposition. "We need to do this, so this happens, otherwise this happens..."

    And lots of one liners put down by a subsequent one. Some of the dialogue didn't flow in the way say, the train scene in CR did.

    that PTS though. Just wow.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    Your comment about London being deserted is well made - the world of this film felt very empty. That may be deliberate but I missed passer-by carnage here, if that makes sense!

    I think it is. It's not a coincidence and many have picked up on it in various locales.

    This is a good point. Did they spunk their entire extras budget in Mexico? Because Rome, London and Austria are all deserted. As is that train - why are Bond and Madeline the only people in the restaurant car? Even the waiter disappears when Hinx comes in.

    I'd considered whether it's for artistic reasons. The notion of Spectres (ghosts), death etc and you only ever really see people for whom death may be just around the corner. The only populated scene being that where everyone is 'dead'.
  • Posts: 486
    My main problem on reflection. The third act was a bit cliche. When Bond walks across the bridge to Swann to a background of emergency services it felt like any old TV thriller and it lacked a classic Bond ending. The third act has been a problem for a lot of recent Bonds I think - I really need a TSWLM/YOLT ending!

    I must admit to finding the YOLT\TSWLM army shoot ups a little boring and repetitive with less focus on Bond himself.

    I think FYEO and TWINE would take some beating with regards to the anti-climatic finale stakes!
  • Posts: 11,425
    the comment about the scene on the bridge with the emergency vehicles looking a bit TV is well made IMO. Not the finale I was hoping for. Ditto another helicopter sequence was not very original. And was the boat coming out of the ruined Mi6 building a deliberate reference to TWINE? If so, why?

    Overall though, I don't have too much to complain about with SP. I thought it was decent enough entry. I plan to see it again and look forward to doing so.

  • edited October 2015 Posts: 15,124
    mcdonbb wrote: »


    Stamper wrote: »
    That's weird. I think the rome sequence and the car chase are the best moments of the movie. The rest is by the numbers. Blofeld motivations are stupid Austin Powers territory, the guy plans on ruining Bond life because he looks better than him and get the girls and was the father prefered son. All that was missing was a raised small finger. Waltz clearly phones it in. Bond is never wounded and as no sequels from the torture scene. The film collapses past the first hour. It's still solid, but the finale that borrows from the DK "save the girl or yourself, you chose" is blah, as is Bond not killing the bad guy. I wish the guy from Sherlock Holmes was actually Blofeld, not Waltz.

    Maybe that's why you didn't like it. And ugh no no Scott plays a weasel not a proper leader.

    Weasel is the right word. Blofeld has to be Satan and Waltz played him perfectly.
    RC7 wrote: »
    Having digested more of the story, one of the things I really liked was the handling of the Oberhauser/ESB reveal.

    If it had not been well written (or acted by Waltz for that matter) it could have been absolutely awful.
    (just as John Harrison/Khan in Star Trek was terrible.)
    .

    Yes, it could have been awful. I'm astonished how well it was handled actually.

    When you say it out loud, you could easily have thought: "Really? REALLY????". But no, it's a actually a great moment in the story.

    And so what if it's taking liberties with the character. In the novels, Dr No wasn't a member of SPECTRE, Goldfinger was a SMERSH operative and Major Dexter Smythe didn't have a daughter named Octopussy so it's hardly new for a Bond writer(s) to alter facets of a character.

    I was surprised on how well it turned out too. I never doubted for a moment he was Blofeld, but was wondering how it would work. They had to take liberties with the character, given the cinematic/rebooted and literary Blofelds belong to, respectively.

    That said:

    1)They took far less liberties than its previous incarnations.

    2)They took far, far, far less liberties than some fans have suggested here (making him younger, making him British, etc.) and far less than say Khan in the rebooted Star Trek.

    3)They surprisingly took a good deal from the novels' Blofeld: his scheme in SP is basically how he started out as a criminal as explained in TB, gathering intelligence, his appearance is close to the one in OHMSS, his whole mannerism and megalomania is pure novel Blofeld.

    4)The way they twisted it, although far fetched, sort of made sense.
  • Posts: 1,068
    How much imagination does this all need really? Surely the scenes set in the public domain were kicking off around midnight and the small hours for Rome though I imagine most of London that was asleep heard that demolition!

    The restaurant car on the train could've been empty because it was 3:00 am - that's why the kitchen was empty: the waiter (wisely) kept his head down when sh!t started kicking off and gunshots were whizzing about the place? How were they to know in the morning which guests were kicking lumps out of the train? Adjacent passengers would attest all they heard were the Bond couple up all night romping away like rabbits and the blonde girl screaming "I love you James" and "...again? You're insatiable...!" :D
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I don't know if I'm remembering right or not, but I seem to remember that the train carriage was populated before the fight (I thought there was a couple sat behind Bond at one point), then everyone had disappeared during the fight.
  • Posts: 486
    I don't know if I'm remembering right or not, but I seem to remember that the train carriage was populated before the fight (I thought there was a couple sat behind Bond at one point), then everyone had disappeared during the fight.

    ...as you would do really although the only direction they had to run in was down the carriage to the kitchen. Maybe they all jumped off the train!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    andmcit wrote: »
    How much imagination does this all need really? Surely the scenes set in the public domain were kicking off around midnight and the small hours for Rome though I imagine most of London that was asleep heard that demolition!

    The restaurant car on the train could've been empty because it was 3:00 am - that's why the kitchen was empty: the waiter (wisely) kept his head down when sh!t started kicking off and gunshots were whizzing about the place? How were they to know in the morning which guests were kicking lumps out of the train? Adjacent passengers would attest all they heard were the Bond couple up all night romping away like rabbits and the blonde girl screaming "I love you James" and "...again? You're insatiable...!" :D
    andmcit wrote: »
    How much imagination does this all need really? Surely the scenes set in the public domain were kicking off around midnight and the small hours for Rome though I imagine most of London that was asleep heard that demolition!

    The restaurant car on the train could've been empty because it was 3:00 am - that's why the kitchen was empty: the waiter (wisely) kept his head down when sh!t started kicking off and gunshots were whizzing about the place? How were they to know in the morning which guests were kicking lumps out of the train? Adjacent passengers would attest all they heard were the Bond couple up all night romping away like rabbits and the blonde girl screaming "I love you James" and "...again? You're insatiable...!" :D

    You've pretty much convinced me.

    Except wasn't the CNS thing counting down to go live at midnight? Still plenty of people would be milling around before the last tube. I suppose it could have been a Sunday when the last tube is 23.30?

    Any ideas on why that Austrian village was deserted? I guess it was just a very cold day and everyone was indoors? Ok that's everything sorted then.

    Time to move onto a new nitpicking topic.

  • Posts: 486
    Now if it was a John Glen film each shot would involve crowds and people walking backwards and forward across the shot as he always seemed to be quite fond of that!
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 562
    "Zekidk wrote: »

    -The pacing: okay, this is probably my biggest complain. I’m not sure if it’s Mendes or the writers who are to blame here, but, like Skyfall, I felt that many scenes weren’t allowed to breathe. Remember that scene in SF where Bond walks on the beach after the main titles, moving towards a tent? Nothing really happens here, but the scene lasts 15-20 seconds, and is an exception from the rule in SF. That scene breathes. In SPECTRE there’s a beautiful shot of a plane flying towards the ICE-Q restaurant accompanied by a lush musical score. It lasts 5 seconds. So does the clip with the Aston Martin entering Rome. In comparison: Bond is picked up by Irma Bunt in OHMSS, and is flown towards Piz Gloria. It’s wonderfully paced, and the whole thing lasts more than a minute. I don’t mind a 148 minute Bond-movie the next time, too. But please try to tell us less, so the scenes can breathe a little more, thank you.

    Thanks for reminding me about that helicopter ride in OHMSS. So epic.
    Also Bunt's 'not ground, ice' line delivery never fails to make me laugh.

  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Just one question. Why did Craig's Bond have to be told by Léa Seydoux's character about the existence of SPECTRE? He'd already encountered SPECTRE in earlier missions, well before the appointment of a female 'M'. The film SPECTRE is set post-female 'M', so the suggestion that Bond was unfamiliar with this particular terror organisation is plainly nonsense.

    Although I have not watched it: In Craig's Bond timeline, there was no "Spectre" prior to this movie, the only criminal organisation we got there so far, was "Quantum".

  • Posts: 625
    Did they spunk their entire extras budget in Mexico? Because Rome, London and Austria are all deserted. As is that train - why are Bond and Madeline the only people in the restaurant car? Even the waiter disappears when Hinx comes in.

    They are not the only people in the restaurant car. There are two other couples eating and drinking. You can see them, when Bond is waiting for Madeleine and when she walks up to him.
    If it is deliberate to have two of Europe's capital cities deserted (apart from an Italian cliche in a Fiat 500) can someone tell me why?

    I've once walked through the night time Rome at about 3 am.
    And yes, most streets in that city are empty at that time.
    I think it's quiet realistic, that there are almost no other cars during the car chase.

    But if you look closer, there are actually other cars. Not only the Fiat.

    And in Austria, there are people in the clinic.
    And then thera a lots of ski extras entering the lift with Q and the two henchmen.

    But yeah: this movie feels empty. But not empty of people, but it lacks soul.
    I don't feel Spectre. It has no emotional core. That's the problem of the movie.
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    Tokoloshe wrote: »
    Darius wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Don't see how Bond and Oppie are half brothers if they don't have the same parents or one of the same parents unlike Austin Powers who did share parents.

    James Bond and Franz Oberhauser are not half brothers, they are step brothers. When Bond's parents died, Hannes Oberhauser took the young James under his wing. This means that Franz Oberhauser aka Ernst Stavro Blofeld do not share any common blood.

    Nope, because in order to be stepbrothers one of their parents would have had to marry one of the other's parents.

    @TheWizardOfIce has explained it very well above. They lived together for a couple of years while Bond was made a ward of Hannes' care, as per the certificate we see at the start.

    So that doesn't make them any kind of brothers then, half or step. My point is that they are just two boys brought up together without any familial ties.

  • Posts: 1,314
    On reflection does anyone think that this is definitely the first part of an unofficial two parter. Maybe B25 it will pick up with Peter Hunts unrealised start to Diamonds are forever.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Could be. :)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Matt007 wrote: »
    On reflection does anyone think that this is definitely the first part of an unofficial two parter. Maybe B25 it will pick up with Peter Hunts unrealised start to Diamonds are forever.

    Well that was mentioned several days ago - but dont worry I dont think intellectual property theft applies on internet forums so I wont sue you ;)
    andmcit wrote: »
    Why not a return for ESB, Himx and Madeline?

    Bond can't just drive off in his Aston into the sunset WITH the girl and not have the rug pulled out from under him!

    He's a really unlucky kinda guy where nice stuff doesn't happen. Still x2 years with Madelone before she lets herself go a bit could make up for the wheels falling off the wagon on the next outing.

    Can't see it being anyone but DC

    Are they doing Hunt's original idea for OHMSS with the film ending with the Aston driving off into the sunset and then the PTS for DAF starting with the killing of Tracy?

    PTS of Bond and Madeline still together (married?) interspersed with action scenes of Blofeld escaping culminating in Madeline being assassinated and into the title song.

    Then could have a full on adaptation of Fleming's YOLT. The early scenes of Bond having a mental collapse would appeal to Dan and Mendes sense of character arc and then a finale of Bond killing Blofeld (maybe even have Irma Bunt return?) and then ending up with amnesia would be a fine way for Dan to sign off his bleak, gritty era. Although it is rather too close to the ground they covered in SF.

    To be honest I dont see where else they can go from here. By the rather disappointing ending of not having Blofeld escape (how about if as the chopper is going down Ernst had pressed a button labelled 'Bathosub' and a little capsule had dropped into the Thames and he's away? Too much for the Craig era? Maybe but I think I might have preferred it as Blofeld should be too clever just to have his chopper shot down without a back up plan) they are stuck with yet another Joker/Silva contrived escape from prison arent they?

    They really need to come up with something more novel along the lines of Moriarty being found not guilty in Sherlock or something. We have seen villains escaping from inescapable prisons way too often. For it to happen 2 films out of 3 would see MI6 closed down surely for gross ineptitude?

    But however they contrive to get Blofeld back into the field does it mean Madeline must come back as well? In older Bond films Bond has always ended up with the girl and then dumped her by the next film. But with the soul searching Craig era and the fact that because of the Blofeld thing the next film really has to be a continuation are we not stuck with a return for Madeline too? Arent people going to ask what happened to her?

    Just off the top of my head the PTS would be a rehash of LTK's with Bond (having quit the service to find happiness) along with a tearful MI6 team preparing for Bond and Madeline's wedding when a signal comes through that theres trouble at Blofeld's prison. Cue jumping into choppers and a big action sequence where Blofeld escapes and Bond leaves Madeline standing at the altar (the obvious thing is to kill her in the PTS but thats just too obvious IMO).

    Then we have Bond putting the wedding on hold while he goes back one last time to hunt down Blofeld and at the end, thinking he's finally dead we get the wedding and Madeline murdered. Perhaps he would actually kill Blofeld before the wedding to keep us guessing but Tilda Swinton's Irma Bunt would come back to kill Madeline and become the main villain in Bond 26.

    It all seems a bit too obvious to me but if EON want to use this then fine but, my previous comment notwithstanding, I will sue if I dont get a credit in the final film!
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    I'm kinda hoping madelline survives bond 25 and then bites the bullet in b26 giving craig two more films.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Madeleine Swann does not have to die. She could be dumped in Bond 25 the way Bond and Tiffany Case broke up in the novels.
  • Posts: 582
    patb wrote: »
    It only works IMHO if you can explain the character's motivation for their behavior and we have yet to identify that. Could M have passed a USB stick to Bond as she died? Something she had just received and needed to pass on
    "Bond, a present for you", that give the writers no end of options later in terms of what was on the stick (CCTV, plans, etc) and two years to work it into the plot.
    Only Kincade would have possibly seen it so Moneypenny's line "You've got a secret " is still OK
    or , (sorry on a roll) M knew she was injured in the church so passed the USB stick to Kincade as she did not know if Bond had survived. At the start of Spectre, Kincade arrives at Bond's flat (hes a great character IMHO) and passes the stick back to Bond.

    I got the impression that she had delivered it in the post? She knew that she was having to 'retire' and wouldn't be Bond's boss anymore. Seems plausible to me.
  • Having now seen the film, I'm left in a similar mood as after SF, a tad disappointed at another ball dropped, don't get me wrong, it's entertaining enough but it's not the epic which I'd hope for given the premise.

    This guy's review kind of sums up my feeling.
    http://www.theoohtray.com/2015/10/27/film-review-spectre/
  • Posts: 250
    They really need to come up with something more novel along the lines of Moriarty being found not guilty in Sherlock or something. We have seen villains escaping from inescapable prisons way too often. For it to happen 2 films out of 3 would see MI6 closed down surely for gross ineptitude?

    Time for Blowers to use his one phonecall on the other loose end from QoS:

    latest?cb=20150928142016
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    FourDot wrote: »
    They really need to come up with something more novel along the lines of Moriarty being found not guilty in Sherlock or something. We have seen villains escaping from inescapable prisons way too often. For it to happen 2 films out of 3 would see MI6 closed down surely for gross ineptitude?

    Time for Blowers to use his one phonecall on the other loose end from QoS:

    latest?cb=20150928142016

    Genius Sir.

    Except they are noticeably trying to pretend QOS never happened. Multiple mentions of Le Chiffre, Vesper, Skyfall and Silva but the Quantum organisation only mentioned once and very quickly in passing.
  • Posts: 1,493
    FourDot wrote: »
    They really need to come up with something more novel along the lines of Moriarty being found not guilty in Sherlock or something. We have seen villains escaping from inescapable prisons way too often. For it to happen 2 films out of 3 would see MI6 closed down surely for gross ineptitude?

    Time for Blowers to use his one phonecall on the other loose end from QoS:

    latest?cb=20150928142016

    Genius Sir.

    Except they are noticeably trying to pretend QOS never happened. Multiple mentions of Le Chiffre, Vesper, Skyfall and Silva but the Quantum organisation only mentioned once and very quickly in passing.

    Quantum are mentioned twice and Green is also name checked.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :)) Yes, I got the impression they lowered their voices when mentioning " QOS"
    connection. ;)
  • All seemed a tad contrived like they had to account for all the elements, it feels a bit like Daniel Craigs mood in various interviews, tired & time for a change, he was as good as the script allowed & put his heart & body into it, but it wasn't as good as I'd hoped & deep down I think Danny would agree.

    Come on It's Bond & Blofield! should have been awsome but wasn't.
  • Oh & lets not talk about the last seen, Bond & Swan driving off into the sunset in the yet again!!!!! rebuilt DB5. Why can't they just let that bl**dy car die. It kind of sums up the problems, stop being nostalgic & start being original......

    Why is CR the best of the Craig era, 2 reasons it was base on original Flemming material & they did a contrasting & new feeling Bond.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 4,617
    tigers99 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    It only works IMHO if you can explain the character's motivation for their behavior and we have yet to identify that. Could M have passed a USB stick to Bond as she died? Something she had just received and needed to pass on
    "Bond, a present for you", that give the writers no end of options later in terms of what was on the stick (CCTV, plans, etc) and two years to work it into the plot.
    Only Kincade would have possibly seen it so Moneypenny's line "You've got a secret " is still OK
    or , (sorry on a roll) M knew she was injured in the church so passed the USB stick to Kincade as she did not know if Bond had survived. At the start of Spectre, Kincade arrives at Bond's flat (hes a great character IMHO) and passes the stick back to Bond.



    I got the impression that she had delivered it in the post? She knew that she was having to 'retire' and wouldn't be Bond's boss anymore. Seems plausible to me.

    No, she says something about "if anything happens to me", the DVD was made as she was worried something would happen to her (I think death is the obvious reference plus Bond says, "in my mail box just after she died", implying death was the motivator for receiving the DVD) not retirement. So there is a guy who needs to be killed and his contacts at the funeral investigated (a serious international threat, not a bit part). Rather than tell someone whilst you are head of dept and alive, you dont tell anyone (including Bond) and arrange a third party to store the DVD and pass it to Bond following her death.
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