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How official/accurate is James Bond Wiki in regard to movie canon? I am not saying that you are wrong, I am just careful. Anyway, even as an employee, according to this deleted scene Silva seems to have had at least some degree of autonomy. Not unlike Dr. No, come to think of it.
It would make sense that Quantum was a section of SPECTRE, maybe some of them were unaware of who was the boss. In SP, isn't it explained that why Mr White was in disgrace was not so much about the Bolivian fiasco but because he refused to play ball for a man who was far too nasty for even White's tastes (as Blofeld, for instance, was not shy from murdering children).
Well for the Daniel Craig/reboot continuity, we don't even know what this Spectre members consist of. They didn't even use the acronym for this film. So this Spectre may not be the same as the one we saw in Sean Connery era. We do know this Spectre has members that are high ranking member in foreign govt, maybe banks, they do have terrorists in their organization that I can confirmed. But we know so little about this organization for the reboot. But one thing I know: Quantum was made as a figurehead for Spectre according to what we saw in the film and what the deleted scene as stated on James Bond Wiki. I could speculate that Spectre doesn't want evidence tracing back to them so they used Quantum as a middle-man, I think. We lived in an era where digital evidence (even the tiniest) can be traced back. That's probably why Bond and MI6 couldn't find Spectre in CR and QOS, they were very good at covering up and being careful about it.
Enough for me to piece everything together. When I saw the movie yesterday and saw how Le Chiffre, Dominic Greene, Mr. White, and Raoul Silva are connected. I didn't doubt the wiki credibility. I wouldn't be surprised if the deleted scene the wiki mention did exist. The IMDB seem to also confirmed this.
Mr. White was of course not happy with Blofeld as the film indicate. But if you watch the film, Mr. White was dying from thallium poisoning, how did he get poisoned and why was he poisoned? What was the motive for him getting poisoned? It's possible that he could've been poisoned because he wanted out from Spectre. But I can't ruled out the Bolivian incident in QOS as another possibility why he was poisoned.
Dominic Greene was definitely killed by Spectre that we can confirmed since the movie showed that he was a Spectre member and Blofeld also kind of implied it.
Spectre have been across everything in the re-boot continuity.Quantum was a division of Spectre.
As for Spectre membership, we know that the large assemblage in Rome was the Spectre membership. Its a big group as we saw, but its leader is also all powerful as we also saw.
White, the Pale King, was revealed as a former member of Spectre, now ordered dead for reasons that White explains in the film. Spectre got to his phone with lethal consequences for White. Sciarra was going to finish White off, if Bond hadn't intervened.
All we know about the Tosca meeting in QoS, is that it was a Quantum grouping.
It may have also included Spectre members. At least one anyway (White).
But bascially Spectre has been across everything, with Blofeld himself probably being the only one with broad based knowledge.
We see in the Rome meeting that Spectre is a form of criminal secret society. Members talk of unswerving loyalty.
As for Silva it does appear that he was a member of Spectre. Blofeld certainly acknowledges him.
I do think that Silva had sufficient means and resources to run his own crazed operation against M and Mi6. In the film he does tell Bond, how his cyber hacking allows him to manipulate global finances, corporate stock prices etc. He had access to lots of cash.
Silva was a member of Spectre I believe, but running quite the grand scale operation of his own. Again much like Dr No, first time around, but Spectre as revealed in the new film, is basically overseeing all major criminal activity in the world, even if many of the participants don't actually know they are being run by Spectre or at least being monitored and manipulated by same.
The actual Spectre membership is secretive,probably involving secret society rituals etc.
The Nine-Eyes progam if it had reached full operation, would have made Blofeld almost ruler of the world.
Thank God for Bond. :-O
Thats for sure. Spectre is a secret society, a closed group.
"You asked for the introduction. That's all my organization will guarantee."
Which seems to imply Le C. isn't in the club, exactly, but a guy they use occasionally to move funds around. SPECTRE no doubt wouldn't mind having a few African warlords as friends, so they're happy with using an outsider like Le C. to make the connection.
Quantum was one of the 'tentacles', and they were 'run' by Spectre. This was the first thing I thought of when they announced the title: "Oh, so now they can use that name they'll just make it the overarching organistation..."
Fine by me. No biggie.
Agree. Doesn't warrant much more explanation than that.
I think it was actually John Logan's idea. He was the one who originally sold a two-film storyline and he was on board SPECTRE before Mendes was.
Actually, I disagreed. Silva as a Spectre members make a lot of sense. The technology he got to hack and launch cyber-terror campaign in Skyfall. He couldn't got all of these on his own (even with the limited money he had), so he needed outside help and I suspected Spectre was behind this and Blofeld kind of confirmed it himself in the film. The police uniform he somehow obtained had Spectre involvement (how could Silva have planned this out), and the last fight in Skyfall involving the attack helicopter and a lot of henchmen he used. Silva couldn't have bought those soldiers and the helicopter on his own, and I suspect those were Spectre soldiers. And if the James Bond wiki is correct about the deleted scene about how Silva agreed to help Spectre is true. It'll make a lot of sense.
I think Spectre being behind Silva makes sense - at the very least it improves Skyfall, by making some of its less believable aspects believable :)
Agreed, at least it explained a lot of stuff that make a lot of Bond fans got curious and made them ask questions how Silva was able to do this and that.
But or Quantum be part of it or was part of it and no longer later. I stil whant to see there contuned with return of Felix, Camile anf there bigger plan/terrible truth. Not big fan of Blofeld in the mix. There can change it (With Blofeld escape and Bond search for him and then discover he never exist or/and not exist any more and somebody ele's hide behind it.)
There also stil some CR quistions left too.
Quantum (at least how i assume it to be) was a sub division of Spectre - if you'll excuse the pun, they were a tentacle off of the Spectre octopus... think of Spectre as a major corporate conglomerate, who owns several other companies (ie: like in film - Disney is it's own company, but also controls Marvel, Lucasfilm, Touchstone, Pixar).
It's implied in SP that they had involvement.. though i believe it to be Quantum acting in autonomy from Spectre itself.. meaning Spectre might own/control Quantum, but Quantum could be very well be able to organize it's own devious projects... So was SP involved directly?.. Not necessarily, but they were still involved.
an interesting theory there about the mercs, chopper, tech... but i think thats reading a little too deep... John Logan had no clue he would eventually be retconning Silva and the events of SF for SP, until he eventually did so... I just assume that a tech savvy agent who got burnt and decided to go independent did a lot of jobs for various organizations up until that point - jobs that could've netted him a lot of $$ and connections... it's easy to retcon Silva back into the Spectre fold - but i wish they hadn't.... that would be like in TB if they made a throwaway comment about how Goldfinger was one of theirs, and his plan to radiate the gold supply of the US was foiled, now they were moving onto Largo's plan... would've been equally as stupid.
Patrice was a hired gun - a merc - he didn't have alligence to anyone..
Le Chiffre and Dominic Greene i think were move involved with Quantum directly than they were with Spectre - same goes with Yusef and Vesper as well... remember, Vesper wasn't an agent to either - she was being used and extorted.
this is an issue they have never readdressed, so it's quite possible..
keep in mind too - the original plan for Ralph Fiennes' M, was to be eventually uncovered as a Spectre mole in Bond 25.. but Fiennes was tired of playing villains, and asked for his role to be rewritten, which they did - and they created 'C', a completely new character out of what was there for Fiennes originally..
correct.. as stated as such by Blofeld to Bond..
but again, all this confusion nonsense could've been resolved had they simply not try to make a flimsy connection to the film title 'Quantum Of Solace' by naming the organization Quantum - an extremely short sighted misstep that has caused more confusion than it really should, especially if they were in constant negotiations with McClory's estate over the Spectre/Blofeld rights after his death... i know hindsight is always 20/20 - and there was no guarantee that the rights could've been regained at all, but they knew the direction they wanted to go in with this "shadowy evil organization" - they either should've left it nameless in QOS - or - they should've put their foot down during script writing on Bond 24, and demanded a much more thorough explanation about the connection between the two organizations, instead of cramming 2 films worth of history into a 1 second ADR'd line from Ben Wishaw - because thats all we ever get.
as much as i have enjoyed and loved Craig's run thus far - that to me is the one glaring pot hole in the middle of the road... yeah, you can make excuses about scripts, weak plots, story plot holes - whatever, the Bond franchise is littered with those problems up and down... the whole Quantum/Spectre issue is something that will be as infamously flammed over by fans for years to come, as much as Bond's revenge for the death of his wife being resolved in opening 5 minutes of DAF, and then never addressed again..
This.
I can't believe people seem so happy that there's some sort of cobbled together explanation on a wiki (written by Christ knows who) which vaguely contrives to make this all hang together.
'In the deleted scene this happened and in this one that happened'
So why were they f**king well deleted then? These are crucial scenes to the plot. Far more so than wasting 5 minutes of playing at Goodfellas and tracking Bond walking through a crowd. Cut that and give us important plot points instead.
A screenplay you have to piece together yourself afterwards - and bear in mind it's 6 months later and we still have no definitive theory on which we can all agree that makes it all coherent - is poorly written. And a director who can't see that the script is incoherent and axes scenes that go some way to explaining things is incompetent. More time polishing the script than planning his poncey opening shot or looking up what was the biggest explosion in the Guiness Book of Records might have been a good idea Sam.
But the buck has to stop with Babs and MGW I'm afraid. It's them are guilty of the following:
- Poor planning with no long term vision.
- Greenlighting a half finished script.
- Greenlighting a clunky retcon of the whole Craig era.
- Being in thrall to Mendes to such an extent they allow him to wrap up SPECTRE in one film rather than introducing it slowly and making the next film about Bond meeting Blofeld.
- Greenlighting the shitty stepbrother idea.
They are running the show and should be using their clout to stop any or all of the above.
From the high water mark of SF they seemed to get complacent overnight and no one came to SP with their A game and there's just a sense of 'if we keep throwing money at it it will be alright on the night' about the whole thing.
Well it wasn't. Spunking money everywhere doesn't always solve everything. Plucky CR on its little budget still blows SP out of the park.
Leicester and Chelsea.
the script issues i can understand to a degree - because they could be under studio pressure too (from both MGM and Sony) to just get whatever they got going and figure the rest out later.. and as much as EON have final say over their Bond films - studios also have deadlines that they like to meet as well.... as an old teacher of mine used to say, sometimes it's better to finished instead of perfect - perhaps EON knowingly knows they may take some flack from fans, or critics when it came to QOS or SP, but they still tried to put out the best they could with what they had...
now.. all that being said.. i do agree that they have (in voice of Emperor Palpatine) paid the price for their lack of vision - when it came to creating these "episodic" Bond films, by trying to connect them from one to other (something they hadn't really bothered to do since the 60's films).... i think when they sat down and came up with CR, they definitely had a strong sense of where they wanted to take these films with Craig moving forward - and a lot of CR carried over into QOS, sans a finished script thanks to the WGA striking...
i think where they really started losing the grip on cohesion was in SF, first they present Bond as an already "past his prime" agent, when just 4 years before he was given his 00 status.... ok???.. and then also letting something as small as Bond's Aston Martin be the same gadget laden one from GF - yes, it was meant as a wink and a nod to fans and the franchise for lasting 50 years - but something as trivial as that set these boards a flame with confusion about timelines... and instead of having a logical reason for it to have gadgets installed in it since it last appeared in CR (after having won it from Dimitrios), they just left it to the fans to draw their own conclusions......
then we get to SP - where we've already established the Quantum/Spectre retconning.... but i also found it odd, that Q, who said in SF "what were you expecting, an exploding pen - we really don't go in for that anymore." - presents Bond with an exploding watch in SP, and yet another gadget laden Aston......... it makes me wonder if anyone really has addressed the idea of continuity with Babs and MGW... i understand that you'd get continuity flubs between each actors' run compared to another - it happens - but these are back to back films in the same actor's run.
i don't think the retconning of events and/or their sloppy handling of it will leave a big stain on Craig's films - it's more like an annoying blemish - one that you wish you could pop, but you can't...
but like i said before (which i saw you agreed with) if they are going to have films where plot details interconnect with one another, then they need to be ahead of the game and have the details planned out to the best of their ability - or least have a direction to follow... they tried to do it - but once they got the rights back to Spectre and Blofeld, their lizard brain kicked in and said DAAA WE GOT HAVE THIS IN THE NEXT MOVIE RIGHT AWAY!! instead of finding a proper way to slowly reintroduce them both.
We have the iconic shot over London and then Bond and M in the classic office.
Maybe just have the folder M hands Bond titled 'SPECTRE' and that's it.
A new actor comes in with M, Q and MP all in place and starts one Blofeld trilogy.
I love Dan in the role but if he wasn't prepared to sign up for a Blofeld trilogy they should have just done a standalone film for B24 and given SPECTRE/Blofeld to the next guy.
Now we are in this unsatisfactory situation where we Dan is looking increasingly unlikely to continue so the new guy has to come in to this half baked Blofeld story.
If they recast, however, they've basically wasted Blofeld and SPECTRE in Bond 24, but they can't readily just rework him and the organization again for the new guy because it'd be all too familiar and done to death too recently. After the Craig era deals with SPECTRE, I don't have an interest in seeing any more of them. It's all been done too many times already, and will only grow more stale.
exactly my point.. they are really at a catch 22 at the moment..
they could just take the easy way out, recast - let Blofeld rot in prison and carry on - but that would be wasting a character you spent the whole previous film building up... the "perfect out" for Daniel Craig might not be so perfect for the franchise moving forward - and IMO, should not have been done unless they knew for a fact that Craig was coming back for Bond 25 - because as i've said before, it leaves more questions open than it should.. what happens to Blofeld now? what is the current state of SPECTRE? Did Bond really quit the service?.... hitting reset now and starting over would really be a WTF moment..
that is why i think it's paramount they get Craig back for at least 1 last film.... i could see him turning down 2 more, but one more should finish this storyline off and set the series back on course for the next guy, but (like the latest tabloids suggested)..... IMO, it's really an unfair spot that Mendes/Logan left the franchise in, and Craig shares some of that blame too (as he was a producer this time around)....