The SPECTRE vs Skyfall battle! (simple question)

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  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,596
    But an argument could be made that DAF is superior. I'm sure I could formulate a really solid argument.

    This is all just wheel spinning. I'm playing devil's advocate only because I don't like this "understanding" that the enlightened have that lesser people don't.

    I strive towards objectivity but I also feel that objectivity is fluid and impossible to define.

    I could say that DAF's wit and its razor sharp dialogue, darkly comedic, etc puts it above GF. Just something I'm throwing out as one example. I could say the music is better. Am I objectively right or wrong? I prefer the music in GF, for the record. I'm just trying to give you something to think about.

    For example, I think "technically speaking" (which is up for debate as well, but I digress) MR is a "better" film than probably 2/3 of the series. Many would disagree with me, but the music, cinematography, production design, use of location, atmosphere, production values, etc make it a pretty "great" film.
  • Posts: 2,483
    bondjames wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with having this discussion imho. I enjoy it. As long as it's good natured. At the end of the day it's all opinion any way.

    However, and having said that, anyone who objectively tries to make the case that DAD is better than FRWL is likely to run into some difficulties with other members on this forum, and perhaps rightly so,

    Quite. Virtually everybody has bought into non-judgmentalism at all costs so heavily that their common sense has been vanquished. We know bloody well that FRWL is superior to DAD, but people would rather play dumb than enunciate the truth and thereby violate the sacrosanct diktats of the West's defective moral system.

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited March 2016 Posts: 9,020
    But an argument could be made that DAF is superior. I'm sure I could formulate a really solid argument.

    This is all just wheel spinning. I'm playing devil's advocate only because I don't like this "understanding" that the enlightened have that lesser people don't.

    I strive towards objectivity but I also feel that objectivity is fluid and impossible to define.

    I could say that DAF's wit and its razor sharp dialogue, darkly comedic, etc puts it above GF. Just something I'm throwing out as one example. I could say the music is better. Am I objectively right or wrong? I prefer the music in GF, for the record. I'm just trying to give you something to think about.

    Good points.

    DAF may have the best score and dialogue of all of the Bond movies, objectively speaking.

    And even if I have DAF at the bottom of my Bond ranking it still is a marvelous movie and its re-watchability value is huge. It never gets boring.
    Overall, with Connery's "performance", the camp and the low production value and the horrible Blofeld, DAF will never be better than GF overall, objectively speaking. IMHO
  • Posts: 1,596
    Of course I think FRWL is superior. And I could write a damn good essay arguing why.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 3,276
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Is it wrong of me to prefer MR over GF?

    With all due respect, yes. That is wrong.
    For example, I think "technically speaking" (which is up for debate as well, but I digress) MR is a "better" film than probably 2/3 of the series. Many would disagree with me, but the music, cinematography, production design, use of location, atmosphere, production values, etc make it a pretty "great" film.

    That is exactly why I love MR, and prefer MR over GF. And no matter how many times the enlightened crowd here tells me that I shouldn't and am wrong, I just can't help preferring MR's music, cinematography, production design, use of location, atmosphere, production values, etc. Like you said: from a technical standpoint (as well as creative) MR is as good as it gets. For me - it's a perfect Bond movie. For others.... well, I don't really care.
  • Zekidk wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Is it wrong of me to prefer MR over GF?

    With all due respect, yes. That is wrong.
    For example, I think "technically speaking" (which is up for debate as well, but I digress) MR is a "better" film than probably 2/3 of the series. Many would disagree with me, but the music, cinematography, production design, use of location, atmosphere, production values, etc make it a pretty "great" film.

    That is exactly why I love MR, and prefer MR over GF. And no matter how many times the enlightened crowd here tells me that I shouldn't and am wrong, I just can't help preferring MR's music, cinematography, production design, use of location, atmosphere, production values, etc. Like you said: from a technical standpoint (as well as creative) MR is as good as it gets. For me - it's a perfect Bond movie. For others.... well, I don't really care.

    is that the one where Jaws flaps his wings like a cartoon character when he's falling?
  • Posts: 3,276
    Yes, that's it. As cartoonish as a train falling through the roof for no other reason than looking cool!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Yes, that's it. As cartoonish as a train falling through the roof for no other reason than looking cool!

    or Bond getting shot on a train by a sniper, falling some hundred meters from a bridge into water, sinking and getting saved by Mermaid Adele!
  • Posts: 4,325
    Skyfall is currently #5 in my overall rankings and Spectre is #8
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    once again I find myself agreeing with @tanka123. I do enjoy
    Spectre but feel Skyfall is the better film.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    edited March 2016 Posts: 13,384
    once again I find myself agreeing with @tanaka123. I do enjoy
    Spectre but feel Skyfall is the better film.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    once again I find myself agreeing with @tanaka123. I do enjoy
    Spectre but feel Skyfall is the better film.
    I would agree with this as well. I have Skyfall and Spectre at no. 1 and no. 5 respectively.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Yes, that's it. As cartoonish as a train falling through the roof for no other reason than looking cool!

    or Bond getting shot on a train by a sniper, falling some hundred meters from a bridge into water, sinking and getting saved by Mermaid Adele!

    :))
  • Zekidk wrote: »
    Yes, that's it. As cartoonish as a train falling through the roof for no other reason than looking cool!

    ...and is that the movie where Jaws falls into the circus tent like Bugs Bunny?
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited March 2016 Posts: 5,080
    I'm getting @doubleohdunce flashbacks.
  • Posts: 3,276
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Yes, that's it. As cartoonish as a train falling through the roof for no other reason than looking cool!

    ...and is that the movie where Jaws falls into the circus tent like Bugs Bunny?
    No. Jaws - probably the most iconic henchman - is not in SF!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Yes, that's it. As cartoonish as a train falling through the roof for no other reason than looking cool!

    ...and is that the movie where Jaws falls into the circus tent like Bugs Bunny?
    No. Jaws - probably the most iconic henchman - is not in SF!

    This would be an interesting test to give to a casual filmgoing audience. Who is more recognizable, Jaws or Oddjob?
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I'd say Jaws. At least from my experience.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'd say Jaws as well, just because his key characteristic was more dramatic, and he was in two highly successful more recent films.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Jaws is iconic by definition.
    Certainly the most famous of all the henchman, I'd go so far to say, he's as famous as Goldfinger is.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Agreed Jaws was Huge. :)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Agreed Jaws was Huge. :)

    Literally
    :))
  • I'd say Jaws. At least from my experience.

    I agree. Kinda like how Live and Let Die is easily the most recongizable Bond song.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I feel in the examples above recognisability Jaws ~ Oddjob > Goldfinger (movie) > Goldfinger (character).

    Fans may love goldfinger but won't remember much of it apart from the iconic images
  • I have to laugh when I see people say they can objectively say one film is better than another, when it is in fact based entirely on opinion. I think some people need to get their dictionaries out.
  • Posts: 3,276
    I'd say Jaws. At least from my experience.

    I agree. Kinda like how Live and Let Die is easily the most recongizable Bond song.
    Interesting assumption. I thought 'Goldfinger' or 'Diamonds are Forever' is. Guess it depends on the crowd!
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,596
    It's "Goldfinger." There are people that know "LALD" but not in association with James Bond. They know it as McCartney and Wings. However, everyone knows "Goldfinger" is a BOnd song.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Surely, these days "Skyfall" would be in contention?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I have to laugh when I see people say they can objectively say one film is better than another, when it is in fact based entirely on opinion. I think some people need to get their dictionaries out.

    I've got a dictionary with me at all times, and come to think of it, I saw a picture of you next to the entry "pustule." Fancy that.

    And you're not telling us anything new by pointing out the fallacy of objectivity. It's understood.
  • Posts: 2,483
    bondjames wrote: »
    Surely, these days "Skyfall" would be in contention?

    It's in the pantheon of the greats, no doubt.
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