Has Mission Impossible surpassed Bond?

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2015 Posts: 15,718
    @boldfinger I am in total agreement with you about the gunbarrel. But I was so happy it was back at the start that I managed to overlook that element of it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @boldfinger I am in total agreement with you about the gunbarrel. But I was so happy it was back at the start that I managed to overlook that element of it.

    Same, along with how much I enjoyed the text/score immediately after the gun barrel. Helped me forgive it a little bit more.
  • Posts: 533
    He could come in from time to time to support the action without being the key man, but they will need someone more charismatic than Renner to anchor it.


    For me Renner is charismatic enough to carry the franchise after Cruise. After all, he starred in my second favorite Bourne movie. The problem is that Renner's character has been transformed into a Moaning Minnie and bureaucrat in "Rogue Nation".

    By the way, didn't "SPECTRE" finally surpass "Rogue Nation" at the box office?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    DRush76 wrote: »
    By the way, didn't "SPECTRE" finally surpass "Rogue Nation" at the box office?
    Yes, it surpassed it on Wednesday. That was inevitable and expected at the very least though since the expectations were initially a lot higher. SP is likely to end up at around $200m at the end of the day which is neither here nor there between them in the US when it's all said and done. Bond gets the convincing win globally, as it normally does, at least for the last 3 installments.
  • Posts: 7,653
    bondjames wrote: »
    DRush76 wrote: »
    By the way, didn't "SPECTRE" finally surpass "Rogue Nation" at the box office?
    Yes, it surpassed it on Wednesday. That was inevitable and expected at the very least though since the expectations were initially a lot higher. SP is likely to end up at around $200m at the end of the day which is neither here nor there between them in the US when it's all said and done. Bond gets the convincing win globally, as it normally does, at least for the last 3 installments.

    But then again I figure that SP cost a wee bit more to make and to promote so in a sense it is an empty victory.

    I have never considered the 007 series a something arty they are at best adventure movies and lately the adventure has been sorely missed by the 007 series while the MI series has done everything, that 007 used to do the best, better.

    And the 007 may live on in a new 007 after Craig has left I may be less convinced that the MI series will do so well when Cruise calls it a day. But that does not alter the fact that MI 3-5 were improving with each movie. So I look forward to MI-6 in sense That I care less for the next 007 movie unless they get their head out of their arses and stop making the damn movies by committee and get a decent story that is more about the job and less about the characters feeling.
    And for the record I agree with the lass not sleeping with 007 in QoB, anybody who is cavalier in dumping his best friend in a container after him being killed is not somebody to sleep with. In SF he died and came back but that changed nothing in the baddies intentions, he still killed M. With SP I found the man devoid of any humanity, no wonder there were no other people in any big action scene as 007 was no longer from this world his actions were no longer in this place. I miss the other Bonds who took their place and responsibility among society. Mendes Bond seems so remote from humans and society. I really do not like that. In that sense MI has way more life to it.

    Has surpassed MI the 007 series, Not by a long shot but these last two movies from the folks of EON have not really given the MI series a lot of competition. Hadn't it been for the brilliant Olympic games bit I am sure that SF would have done a lot less at the cinema. And do not forget Adele, her name is worth gold.
  • edited December 2015 Posts: 15,125
    I don´t understand. How do Bond films, which took hardly more than titles and names from novels, fail or don´t fail?

    The thing is, the M:I franchise is on the rise right now. For how long, nobody knows.
    The Bond franchise, heritage being heritage, meanders right now. For how long, nobody knows. Bond has pulled itself out of deep sh*t more than once, and the experiments of Eon V2.0 payed off more often than not. If I were to view the Bond franchise via the internet after TMWTGG, I would write it off immediately. After LTK, it was more written off than not. If for some reason Cruise should age in the coming year and lose his breath in the next M:I film, the public will remember not more than two or three successful M:I films. But right now, M:I films are tighter and make more sense as entertainment than Bond films.

    Actually no, the last Bond movies take a good deal from the source material (directly or indirectly). Whether they used it to the best effect is debatable, but they still use the source material. As for the Bond franchise meandering... Judging by the success of the Craig movie, I have to disagree. Heck, even the Brosnan ones were popular! Whether they are good or not is a different debate: they are however, entertaining enough to bring a lot of money.

    (And before people accuse me of making an appeal to popularity, I am not talking about the quality of the movies now, but simply about the statement about the entertaining value of said movies. People found Independence Day entertaining when it was released, I didn't. But my personal appreciation of the movie meant nothing to its then popularity.)
  • edited December 2015 Posts: 4,617
    When the MI movie franchise started, I am sure the production team would have been very pleased and flattered to think that , to some, it would be competing with Bond in 2015. It's been managed very well and a great case study of how so much can be made (both creatively and financially) via the rights of a 1960s TV series.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    MI has done absolutely fine and fair play to Cruise, but do the first 5 MI films have anywhere near the amount of iconic moments the first 5 Bonds have? Not to mention the following 19. It's performed well in much the same way the Fast and the Furious has, but other than Cruise on wires in the original M:I I don't see any iconic images that are transcendent. I still don't think these films resonate in the way Bond does, regardless of how enjoyable they are.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Thats the reliance on legacy again. Its the iconic moments for the next Bond movie that need to be focused on, not movies that were made in the 60s and have little meaning to the future generation of movie fans.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    Thats the reliance on legacy again. Its the iconic moments for the next Bond movie that need to be focused on, not movies that were made in the 60s and have little meaning to the future generation of movie fans.

    I don't disagree with that and have advocated it vociferously. Bond aside, I still don't think M:I has left any real mark on the cinematic landscape other than to be slick action based films. SP still delivers it's take on the legacy regardless of whether people love or hate it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    When the MI movie franchise started, I am sure the production team would have been very pleased and flattered to think that , to some, it would be competing with Bond in 2015. It's been managed very well and a great case study of how so much can be made (both creatively and financially) via the rights of a 1960s TV series.
    They have indeed come a long way. This review from a Collider article mirrors my view:

    "Mission: Impossible is like the Benjamin Button of franchises. While most are a series of diminishing returns, losing a little more zeal and relevance with each new sequel, Mission: Impossible only improves the longer it runs. Undoubtedly, much of that credit is owed to the series headliner Tom Cruise, who has shepherded the franchise from a paranoid Brian de Palma thriller to the massive Kremlin-demolishing action behemoth it became in the 20 years since. Indeed, it was Cruise who brought on his frequent collaborator Christopher McQuarrie to write and direct Rogue Nation, and set a new course for the franchise in the process.

    Mission: Impossible traditionally brings on a new director to helm each installment, every one of them bringing their unique sensibilities to the proceedings, but McQuarrie pulled off something much more interesting. With Rogue Nation, he culled the best qualities of the previous films and combined them to create the ultimate Mission: Impossible movie. And he did it without hack callbacks that reek of fanservice. Instead, the few callbacks felt earned and at home because they’re in the very DNA of the franchise.

    Ethan Hunt continues to be one of the great American action heroes, but now he’s surrounded by an ensemble of allies collected over the last two decades. Ving Rhames‘ Luther, Simon Pegg’s Benji, Jeremy Renner‘s Agent Brandt, and now, Rebecca Ferguson‘s wonderfully classy ass-kicker Isla Faust all highlight Ethan’s different attributes, allowing the character to be infinitely more interesting than when he was a one-man-show with a rotating troupe of teammates. That ensemble only allows Ethan to be more fun and more invested as he has friends to joke with, or sometimes rescue as the story dictates. The set-pieces are executed with technical precision and have never played better because now Ethan has a reason to fight beyond just being the “good guy”. Mission: Impossible only continues to improve, and with a sixth film cued up to film next year, we won’t have to wait very long to see if that trend continues."
  • Posts: 5,767
    That mirrors my thoughts too.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I came across this and thought I should share. It's apparently not a photoshop and the photo was taken by a nearby helicopter. Nuts:

    tctopbk.jpg

    21_mi4.jpg
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited December 2015 Posts: 40,976
    @bondjames, that is indeed 100% real, and I love it. He went out one day, used a combination of steep steps, elevators, and ladders to reach the top, and sat up there for one hour as the helicopter panned around and took various photos and video of him. He had to climb 443 feet of ladder at the end to reach the very top.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @bondjames, that is indeed 100% real, and I love it. He went out one day, used a combination of steep steps, elevators, and ladders to reach the top, and sat up there for one hour as the helicopter panned around and took various photos and video of him. He had to climb 443 feet of ladder at the end to reach the very top.
    Thanks @Creasy47. Having recently watched Ghost Protocol again on blu ray, I became curious to see how he did the climb for the film and while googling came across this photoshoot that just blew me away. Amazing. Apparently he put some graffiti up there too (a message to then wife Katie Holmes and his kids).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @bondjames, you're welcome! All of his stunt work is wildly impressive to me: all of the Burj Khalifa scenes (and that), his real stunt driving, the plane stunt from RN. Never ceases to impresses. After that plane stunt and the underwater scene from RN, I wonder what he plans on bringing to the table next in terms of realistic stunts.
  • Posts: 4,617
    That article from the Collider is great, thanks.
    There is a very interesting couple of seconds within the fight over the flute where Hunt and the bad guy are kneeling on the gantry and as they stand, the bad guy is much taller than Hunt. A look comes over Hunt's face as if to say, "God, this guy's much taller than me"
    its a step change for Hunt (and Cruise ) as its the first time they reference his height and make him the underdog. To do so shows a new level of confidence both in the writer and Cruise.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    I watched RN for the first time last night since I saw it in theaters and my wife and I were astonished by how similar it was to SP in terms of plot. With IMF considered obsolete and shut down similar to the 00 section being shut down. The Moroccan location, the ending in London in which an ally is being held hostage more or less. I see now why it was pushed to be released in the summer.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    That article from the Collider is great, thanks.
    There is a very interesting couple of seconds within the fight over the flute where Hunt and the bad guy are kneeling on the gantry and as they stand, the bad guy is much taller than Hunt. A look comes over Hunt's face as if to say, "God, this guy's much taller than me"
    its a step change for Hunt (and Cruise ) as its the first time they reference his height and make him the underdog. To do so shows a new level of confidence both in the writer and Cruise.
    Best part for me in that scene was when Hunt is lying on the gantry busted up and Benji (or someone at the control booth) accidentally hits a switch that starts it moving up towards the baddie, who is waiting for him and pulls out a knife in anticipation of a rematch. There is a look that comes over Hunt's face momentarily that cracks me up. 'give me a minute will you. I'm still recovering from our last bust up!'.

    That's something Cruise wouldn't have done in the earlier MI films where he was more of a super agent. That's what I meant before about the new found human weariness in the portrayal, which I welcome. Roger Moore used to do that very well also.
  • edited December 2015 Posts: 2,107
    Nope. I love them for different reasons. Some movies are just worse than another..

    I find the original Tom Cruise much better than some of the Bond films, like Goldeneye released year before and Mission Impossible 3 is worse than any of the Craig films or Brosnan's first Bond, Goldeneye.

    But I do enjoy them all for what they are. Both Bond and Mission Impossible franchises.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    SharkBait wrote: »
    Nope. I love them for different reasons. Some movies are just worse than another..

    I find the original Tom Cruise much better than some of the Bond films, like Goldeneye released year before and Mission Impossible 3 is worse than any of the Craig films or Brosnan's first Bond, Goldeneye.

    But I do enjoy them all for what they are. Both Bond and Mission Impossible franchises.
    I agree with you, except I personally just prefer GE to MI-1 (although MI-1 has improved with age while GE has declined with time for me it still has the lead).
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    bondjames wrote: »
    SharkBait wrote: »
    Nope. I love them for different reasons. Some movies are just worse than another..

    I find the original Tom Cruise much better than some of the Bond films, like Goldeneye released year before and Mission Impossible 3 is worse than any of the Craig films or Brosnan's first Bond, Goldeneye.

    But I do enjoy them all for what they are. Both Bond and Mission Impossible franchises.
    I agree with you, except I personally just prefer GE to MI-1 (although MI-1 has improved with age while GE has declined with time for me it still has the lead).

    I still think MI:2 is the worst by far. Shame on Woo
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    SharkBait wrote: »
    Nope. I love them for different reasons. Some movies are just worse than another..

    I find the original Tom Cruise much better than some of the Bond films, like Goldeneye released year before and Mission Impossible 3 is worse than any of the Craig films or Brosnan's first Bond, Goldeneye.

    But I do enjoy them all for what they are. Both Bond and Mission Impossible franchises.
    I agree with you, except I personally just prefer GE to MI-1 (although MI-1 has improved with age while GE has declined with time for me it still has the lead).

    I still think MI:2 is the worst by far. Shame on Woo
    I used to really like that film when it came out, better than MI-1. Now it's definitely one of the worst for me. They chose some directorial approaches with that film which really dated it.

    I'm not a fan of MI3 either. I recently watched it again, and although the tension and action sequences are there, I don't like the emotion in the film. I realize the stakes are higher due to the family component, but it just grates me and is not my cup of tea in this genre. I much prefer the possibility of violence towards a loved one (the original Die Hard nailed it imho in this respect with Holly Gennero always being potentially at risk) rather than the actual threat.

    Moreover, the Hunt strapped to a chair sequence reminded me (uncomfortably) of the SP torture scene, but the with tables reversed.
  • Posts: 1,631
    bondjames wrote: »
    SharkBait wrote: »
    Nope. I love them for different reasons. Some movies are just worse than another..

    I find the original Tom Cruise much better than some of the Bond films, like Goldeneye released year before and Mission Impossible 3 is worse than any of the Craig films or Brosnan's first Bond, Goldeneye.

    But I do enjoy them all for what they are. Both Bond and Mission Impossible franchises.
    I agree with you, except I personally just prefer GE to MI-1 (although MI-1 has improved with age while GE has declined with time for me it still has the lead).

    I still think MI:2 is the worst by far. Shame on Woo

    No question about that. Mission: Impossible 2 is, by a fairly wide margin I'd guess (haven't seen the pre-Ghost Protocol films in quite some time) the worst of the five films. It was also a fairly odd choice of direction after the rather low-key original film.

    I'm not sure how much fault Woo has in that, though, as I imagine that he pretty much turned in the type of film that Cruise and company hired him to make.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    I must be the only one who really enjoyed Mission Impossible 2. Two hours of pure, mindless, loud and epic entertainment. Very dumb compared to Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation but oh so fun.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I enjoy Mission: Impossible 2 for what it is, but at the same time, I'd also have to say that it's by far the weakest of the series. Still, you can't go entirely wrong by just having a 2-hour film that pretty much just features Tom Cruise blowing stuff up.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    SharkBait wrote: »
    Nope. I love them for different reasons. Some movies are just worse than another..

    I find the original Tom Cruise much better than some of the Bond films, like Goldeneye released year before and Mission Impossible 3 is worse than any of the Craig films or Brosnan's first Bond, Goldeneye.

    But I do enjoy them all for what they are. Both Bond and Mission Impossible franchises.
    I agree with you, except I personally just prefer GE to MI-1 (although MI-1 has improved with age while GE has declined with time for me it still has the lead).

    I still think MI:2 is the worst by far. Shame on Woo
    I used to really like that film when it came out, better than MI-1. Now it's definitely one of the worst for me. They chose some directorial approaches with that film which really dated it.

    I'm not a fan of MI3 either. I recently watched it again, and although the tension and action sequences are there, I don't like the emotion in the film. I realize the stakes are higher due to the family component, but it just grates me and is not my cup of tea in this genre. I much prefer the possibility of violence towards a loved one (the original Die Hard nailed it imho in this respect with Lucy always being potentially at risk) rather than the actual threat.

    Moreover, the Hunt strapped to a chair sequence reminded me (uncomfortably) of the SP torture scene, but the with tables reversed.

    I enjoyed MI:3 at first, actually saw it twice in two days opening weekend. I haven't seen it in awhile as well. I did enjoy the Vatican scene and looking back on it, it looks like they wanted to choose the safe route after MI:2. But what lacks is the lack of break in during which Hunt steals the rabbit foot. I think a few minutes of watching a suspenseful break-in scene could have had it better IMO.

  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    I must be the only one who really enjoyed Mission Impossible 2. Two hours of pure, mindless, loud and epic entertainment. Very dumb compared to Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation but oh so fun.

    I think its the scenes themselves that don't work well for me in MI:2. Save for the break-in at Biocyte (or whatever it was called) it all just felt bland for me and it never felt like I was watching an MI film.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I enjoy the MI films but do think that 2&3 were the weakest.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I enjoyed MI:3 at first, actually saw it twice in two days opening weekend. I haven't seen it in awhile as well. I did enjoy the Vatican scene and looking back on it, it looks like they wanted to choose the safe route after MI:2. But what lacks is the lack of break in during which Hunt steals the rabbit foot. I think a few minutes of watching a suspenseful break-in scene could have had it better IMO.
    Yes, that part is strange. They go through all that effort to showcase the rooftop breakin but then don't show anything once he gets into the facility. I think maybe they didn't want it to draw too many memories to the scene in MI2 when Hunt breaks into the Biocyte site (where Nyah injects herself with the virus).
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