Deadly attacks in Paris / Brussels / Nice (07/14/2016)

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Comments

  • Posts: 4,325
    Ludovico wrote: »
    More like a threat from a mafia boss. And even if Jesus existed and died and resurrected (a lot of ifs) his sacrifice would hardly be one: one lousy afternoon then up in heaven then back on earth for a few days to impress a few people.

    Beside I don't think I deserve hell to begin with and reject completely the criterias to avoid it as amoral.

    Okay.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Wouldn't public practice encourage greater dialogue? I had some great conversations with some Muslim housemates during Ramadan.
    Perhaps you and your housemates are intelligent enough and wise enough to have such conversations in a calm manner, without misunderstanding.

    You said earlier that Christianity affects all aspects of your life. Essentially it is all encompassing. You also said that non believers are destined for hell. If you strongly believe such concepts, then doesn't that create some level of 'superiority' within you, even if subconsciously? How does that make you and I equal? Only the secular law affords me protection (even from Hell).

    Again, you may be able to have such conversations calmly, but I fear that other more religious (and perhaps not so smart) believers may no. It is a fine line which could easily descend into distrust and then possibly violence, because some religious beliefs are passionate and held fervently, at the expense of common sense.

    Only a secular law protects all of us and each of us. It is essential in my view.

    Excellent question. I guess I don't feel a sense of superiority because I and everyone deserve to go to hell because we have not lived with God in charge of our lives. It is Christ himself who is superior, that's why I boast in him and not myself. I have done nothing to deserve to go to heaven - not one iota.
    That is a good response. I have another question then. If someone calls themselves a 'practicing Christian', in your view does that make them more 'worthy' of salvation than one who is not? Automatically?

    What about someone who isn't a 'practicing Christian', but who has done great deeds in life and for humanity. Surely they can't be hell bound? Surely 'Christ' will be able to respect and appreciate such acts and not allow him or her to be damned just because they don't read the Bible and subscribe to Christianity? Aren't there Muslim, or Jewish, or Hindu believers who are worthy of salvation? What about atheists?

    My point is, I believe these are all man-made labels. Man-made constructs. At the end of the day, we should be mindful of our fellow living beings and do the best we can. Live our lives honourably and respectfully. Why? Well because it's common sense, that's all. Not because we'll burn for not doing so.
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What kind of friend worship a being that can punish me for such petty reason? If someone tells me I'll burn in hell unless I worship whatever, that's not a friendly gesture. That's a threat.

    If God created you, doesn't he have the right to be worshipped? Not trying to argue, just a question to ponder.
    There is some debate on this point I think.
  • Posts: 15,117
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What kind of friend worship a being that can punish me for such petty reason? If someone tells me I'll burn in hell unless I worship whatever, that's not a friendly gesture. That's a threat.

    If God created you, doesn't he have the right to be worshipped? Not trying to argue, just a question to ponder.

    One you've got no proof that God exists or that he cares about us if he does exist. And even if he did nope he doesn't have that right. In fact if God exists and is like you described him I find him unworthy of worship or even respect.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 4,325
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Wouldn't public practice encourage greater dialogue? I had some great conversations with some Muslim housemates during Ramadan.
    Perhaps you and your housemates are intelligent enough and wise enough to have such conversations in a calm manner, without misunderstanding.

    You said earlier that Christianity affects all aspects of your life. Essentially it is all encompassing. You also said that non believers are destined for hell. If you strongly believe such concepts, then doesn't that create some level of 'superiority' within you, even if subconsciously? How does that make you and I equal? Only the secular law affords me protection (even from Hell).

    Again, you may be able to have such conversations calmly, but I fear that other more religious (and perhaps not so smart) believers may no. It is a fine line which could easily descend into distrust and then possibly violence, because some religious beliefs are passionate and held fervently, at the expense of common sense.

    Only a secular law protects all of us and each of us. It is essential in my view.

    Excellent question. I guess I don't feel a sense of superiority because I and everyone deserve to go to hell because we have not lived with God in charge of our lives. It is Christ himself who is superior, that's why I boast in him and not myself. I have done nothing to deserve to go to heaven - not one iota.
    That is a good response. I have another question then. If someone calls themselves a 'practicing Christian', in your view does that make them more 'worthy' of salvation who is not? Automatically?

    What about someone who isn't a 'practicing Christian', but who has done great deeds in life and for humanity. Surely they can't be hell bound? Surely 'Christ' will be able to respect and appreciate such acts and not allow him or her to be damned just because they don't read the Bible and subscribe to Christianity? Aren't there Muslim, or Jewish, or Hindu believers who are worthy of salvation?

    My point is, I believe these are all man-made labels. Man-made constructs. At the end of the day, we should be mindful of our fellow living beings and do the best we can. Live our lives honourably and respectfully. Why? Well because it's common sense, that's all. Not because we'll burn for not doing so.
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What kind of friend worship a being that can punish me for such petty reason? If someone tells me I'll burn in hell unless I worship whatever, that's not a friendly gesture. That's a threat.

    If God created you, doesn't he have the right to be worshipped? Not trying to argue, just a question to ponder.
    There is some debate on this point I think.

    Another excellent question. It might help if I explain a bit of how I became a Christian. You see I always thought that Christianity was about good people going to heaven and bad people going to hell. Then I did a presentation in school on Jesus, I thought I was being countercultural! So I actually had to do some research for this thing and I discovered that that's not what Christian's believe at all. All of us fall below the standards of holiness of God, and in my heart of hearts I knew this about myself. But God sacrificed his Son, to pay the penalty for my sin so that i could be right with him again. Of course Christians and non-Christians are able to do good deeds. In fact the Bible even says that it is man's conscience that tells him the truth about God - we do inherently know we are doing bad and good. The fact remains that none of us is without sin - none of us 100% put God and what he wants before what we want. Pick me up on anything that doesn't make sense/needs clarifying.
  • I think @bondjames was asking whether there is a requirement to believe in Christianity, or whether it suffices to be a good person?

    I expect the answer is the former, and if so, then I find the message truly despicable.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What kind of friend worship a being that can punish me for such petty reason? If someone tells me I'll burn in hell unless I worship whatever, that's not a friendly gesture. That's a threat.

    If God created you, doesn't he have the right to be worshipped? Not trying to argue, just a question to ponder.

    One you've got no proof that God exists or that he cares about us if he does exist. And even if he did nope he doesn't have that right. In fact if God exists and is like you described him I find him unworthy of worship or even respect.

    That God is a full blown psycopath, a demonic entity.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited March 2016 Posts: 1,731
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What kind of friend worship a being that can punish me for such petty reason? If someone tells me I'll burn in hell unless I worship whatever, that's not a friendly gesture. That's a threat.

    If God created you, doesn't he have the right to be worshipped? Not trying to argue, just a question to ponder.

    But say I am a good person who does not put his own needs before those of others - someone who is humble, tolerant, honest and also lives by these principles, whilst perhaps even inspiring others to do the same, ie. do good.

    Would it not be rather churlish & downright petty of 'God' to punish me or have me burn in hell just because I do not worship him or join his Christian movement..?

    This idea that I can't be trusted to be a good HUMAN without subscribing to a faith is pretty darn patronizing.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 4,325
    I think @bondjames was asking whether there is a requirement to believe in Christianity, or whether it suffices to be a good person?

    I expect the answer is the former, and if so, then I find the message truly despicable.

    The former because man is inherently sinful since the fall.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 4,615
    On that basis, myself and my wife should have an expectation that our kids worship us? after all, we created them.? No kids should have to worship and be subservient to their parents and, following that, the human species should not worship or be subservient to any higher force. We are on our own and the sooner we all realise that and focus on solving the issues ourselves, the better
    Going off on a tangent, Obama's response the the latest bombs was " the thoughts and prayers of Americans are with the people of Belgium".
    So in the 21st Century, the most powerful man on the planet says that his country is sending some form of invisible mind transfer message to an invisible guy in the sky in the hope that the invisible guy will receive these requests and bring this to his/her attention (obviously the opportunity to stop the bombs before they blew up was missed, what was it , a day off? did not enough people pray after the Paris attacks?) and the invisible guy will help by.....well what, how does the invisible guy help under these circumstances?
    When you begin to deconstruct what is happening here, there is little hope IMHO.
  • I rest my case.
  • Posts: 4,325
    patb wrote: »
    On that basis, myself and my wife should have an expectation that our kids worship us? after all, we created them.? No kids should have to worship and be subservient to their parents and, following that, the human species should not worship or be subservient to any higher force. We are on our own and the sooner we all realise that and focus on solving the issues ourselves, the better
    Going off on a tangent, Obama's response the the latest bombs was " the thoughts and prayers of Americans are with the people of Belgium".
    So in the 21st Century, the most powerful man on the planet says that his country is sending some form of invisible mind transfer message to an invisible guy in the sky in the hope that the invisible guy will receive these requests and bring this to his/her attention (obviously the opportunity to stop the bombs before they blew up was missed, what was it , a day off?) and the invisible guy will help by.....well what, how does the invisible guy help under these circumstances?
    When you begin to deconstruct what is happening here, there is little hope IMHO.

    No they should worship God, but it is good and right that children respect their parents.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    When you deconstruct any form of blind faith (and yes it is 'blind' unless you are given tangible, concrete evidence to the contrary) it honestly doesn't seem any more reasonable than claiming that the tooth fairy is actually the main driving force behind our existence.
    The SIZE or amount of subscribers to a certain idea does not increase it's validity or help it stand up better to the above scrutiny, quite frankly.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    On that basis, myself and my wife should have an expectation that our kids worship us? after all, we created them.? No kids should have to worship and be subservient to their parents and, following that, the human species should not worship or be subservient to any higher force. We are on our own and the sooner we all realise that and focus on solving the issues ourselves, the better
    Going off on a tangent, Obama's response the the latest bombs was " the thoughts and prayers of Americans are with the people of Belgium".
    So in the 21st Century, the most powerful man on the planet says that his country is sending some form of invisible mind transfer message to an invisible guy in the sky in the hope that the invisible guy will receive these requests and bring this to his/her attention (obviously the opportunity to stop the bombs before they blew up was missed, what was it , a day off?) and the invisible guy will help by.....well what, how does the invisible guy help under these circumstances?
    When you begin to deconstruct what is happening here, there is little hope IMHO.

    No they should worship God, but it is good and right that children respect their parents.

    But is it good because God said so, or just because it is?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Wouldn't public practice encourage greater dialogue? I had some great conversations with some Muslim housemates during Ramadan.
    Perhaps you and your housemates are intelligent enough and wise enough to have such conversations in a calm manner, without misunderstanding.

    You said earlier that Christianity affects all aspects of your life. Essentially it is all encompassing. You also said that non believers are destined for hell. If you strongly believe such concepts, then doesn't that create some level of 'superiority' within you, even if subconsciously? How does that make you and I equal? Only the secular law affords me protection (even from Hell).

    Again, you may be able to have such conversations calmly, but I fear that other more religious (and perhaps not so smart) believers may no. It is a fine line which could easily descend into distrust and then possibly violence, because some religious beliefs are passionate and held fervently, at the expense of common sense.

    Only a secular law protects all of us and each of us. It is essential in my view.

    Excellent question. I guess I don't feel a sense of superiority because I and everyone deserve to go to hell because we have not lived with God in charge of our lives. It is Christ himself who is superior, that's why I boast in him and not myself. I have done nothing to deserve to go to heaven - not one iota.
    That is a good response. I have another question then. If someone calls themselves a 'practicing Christian', in your view does that make them more 'worthy' of salvation who is not? Automatically?

    What about someone who isn't a 'practicing Christian', but who has done great deeds in life and for humanity. Surely they can't be hell bound? Surely 'Christ' will be able to respect and appreciate such acts and not allow him or her to be damned just because they don't read the Bible and subscribe to Christianity? Aren't there Muslim, or Jewish, or Hindu believers who are worthy of salvation?

    My point is, I believe these are all man-made labels. Man-made constructs. At the end of the day, we should be mindful of our fellow living beings and do the best we can. Live our lives honourably and respectfully. Why? Well because it's common sense, that's all. Not because we'll burn for not doing so.
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What kind of friend worship a being that can punish me for such petty reason? If someone tells me I'll burn in hell unless I worship whatever, that's not a friendly gesture. That's a threat.

    If God created you, doesn't he have the right to be worshipped? Not trying to argue, just a question to ponder.
    There is some debate on this point I think.

    Another excellent question. It might help if I explain a bit of how I became a Christian. You see I always thought that Christianity was about good people going to heaven and bad people going to hell. Then I did a presentation in school on Jesus, I thought I was being countercultural! So I actually had to do some research for this thing and I discovered that that's not what Christian's believe at all. All of us fall below the standards of holiness of God, and in my heart of hearts I knew this about myself. But God sacrificed his Son, to pay the penalty for my sin so that i could be right with him again. Of course Christians and non-Christians are able to do good deeds. In fact the Bible even says that it is man's conscience that tells him the truth about God - we do inherently know we are doing bad and good. The fact remains that none of us is without sin - none of us 100% put God and what he wants before what we want. Pick me up on anything that doesn't make sense/needs clarifying.
    I agree completely (and instinctively) on your points that our conscience should be our ultimate guide. We all have it, and we have it for a reason. It should be our internal guide.

    I also believe that we all fall short of the ideal. Every day of our lives we fall short.

    That is why, to a degree, I do agree with going to church or mosque or temple. There's nothing wrong with that in principle, because at best it helps to focus the mind, to remind us to do good, to keep us on the 'straight and narrow'. However, this can also be achieved by daily meditation or contemplation, in my view (the Buddhist way). It's just far more difficult because it's not communal, but solitary.
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    But God sacrificed his Son, to pay the penalty for my sin so that i could be right with him again.
    I don't agree with the above, because there is no evidence to suggest I should agree with it.

    It may surprise you to know that I don't believe in the 'Golden Rule'. Rather, I believe in something I read once in a book called the 'Platinum Rule'. Essentially, 'Do unto others how others would like done unto themselves' rather than 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. The difference is one respects the inherent differences between all of us and does not use our own view as the primary view.

    Logic, compassion & evidence must go hand in hand imho when observing human kind and when making judgements/pronouncements.
  • Posts: 4,325
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    On that basis, myself and my wife should have an expectation that our kids worship us? after all, we created them.? No kids should have to worship and be subservient to their parents and, following that, the human species should not worship or be subservient to any higher force. We are on our own and the sooner we all realise that and focus on solving the issues ourselves, the better
    Going off on a tangent, Obama's response the the latest bombs was " the thoughts and prayers of Americans are with the people of Belgium".
    So in the 21st Century, the most powerful man on the planet says that his country is sending some form of invisible mind transfer message to an invisible guy in the sky in the hope that the invisible guy will receive these requests and bring this to his/her attention (obviously the opportunity to stop the bombs before they blew up was missed, what was it , a day off?) and the invisible guy will help by.....well what, how does the invisible guy help under these circumstances?
    When you begin to deconstruct what is happening here, there is little hope IMHO.

    No they should worship God, but it is good and right that children respect their parents.

    But is it good because God said so, or just because it is?

    I think both really.
  • Posts: 4,325
    AceHole wrote: »
    When you deconstruct any form of blind faith (and yes it is 'blind' unless you are given tangible, concrete evidence to the contrary) it honestly doesn't seem any more reasonable than claiming that the tooth fairy is actually the main driving force behind our existence.
    The SIZE or amount of subscribers to a certain idea does not increase it's validity or help it stand up better to the above scrutiny, quite frankly.

    In the words of John Newton, 'I once was blind, now I see.'
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    I think @bondjames was asking whether there is a requirement to believe in Christianity, or whether it suffices to be a good person?

    I expect the answer is the former, and if so, then I find the message truly despicable.

    The former because man is inherently sinful since the fall.
    Yes, @Scaramanga12, thanks, I was asking just that. I don't agree with the response in this case. I would think, logically, that being a good person and doing good deeds should be sufficient.

    So this is an that aspect of Christian doctrine and theology that I fundamentally disagree with, although there are other aspects (as there are of all religions) which I think are beneficial and good.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited March 2016 Posts: 1,731
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    When you deconstruct any form of blind faith (and yes it is 'blind' unless you are given tangible, concrete evidence to the contrary) it honestly doesn't seem any more reasonable than claiming that the tooth fairy is actually the main driving force behind our existence.
    The SIZE or amount of subscribers to a certain idea does not increase it's validity or help it stand up better to the above scrutiny, quite frankly.

    In the words of John Newton, 'I once was blind, now I see.'

    'See' what, exactly? I can accept that a religion can give you clarity or support, especially in times of distress, but are you not thirsty for actual proof of the things you are told to believe in..?
    Just wondering, not trying to heat up the issue any further :)
  • Posts: 4,615
    "logically" - c'mon Bondjames, you are a clever chap, when you start using concepts like logic, then it's pretty much game over when trying to work out the ins and outs of religion. There is no logic...never was, never will be.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Fair enough @patb, but surely you'll agree that all religions have decent concepts & principles within them. Such concepts help to keep people honest, charitable, looking out for their neighbour etc., as well as focused on living a purposeful life.

    Sure, the 'fear' basis inherent in religions is wrong, If only people could take the beneficial aspects from it (which in my view are the overall principles) and ignore the fear based & potentially divisive dogma and doctrine which many times consumes them, I'm sure the world could be a better place. Easier said that done though.
  • Posts: 4,325
    AceHole wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    When you deconstruct any form of blind faith (and yes it is 'blind' unless you are given tangible, concrete evidence to the contrary) it honestly doesn't seem any more reasonable than claiming that the tooth fairy is actually the main driving force behind our existence.
    The SIZE or amount of subscribers to a certain idea does not increase it's validity or help it stand up better to the above scrutiny, quite frankly.

    In the words of John Newton, 'I once was blind, now I see.'

    'See' what, exactly? I can accept that a religion can give you clarity or support, especially in times of distress, but are you not thirsty for actual proof of the things you are told to believe in..?
    Just wondering, not trying to heat up the issue any further :)

    The truth. It's hard to explain, you just inherently know that the Bible is true when you become a Christian. Sorry, I know that won't satisfy you. I was very anti-Christian before that moment. I guess the proof to me is how the Bible speaks to my heart, I just know it to be true.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    When you deconstruct any form of blind faith (and yes it is 'blind' unless you are given tangible, concrete evidence to the contrary) it honestly doesn't seem any more reasonable than claiming that the tooth fairy is actually the main driving force behind our existence.
    The SIZE or amount of subscribers to a certain idea does not increase it's validity or help it stand up better to the above scrutiny, quite frankly.

    In the words of John Newton, 'I once was blind, now I see.'

    'See' what, exactly? I can accept that a religion can give you clarity or support, especially in times of distress, but are you not thirsty for actual proof of the things you are told to believe in..?
    Just wondering, not trying to heat up the issue any further :)

    The truth. It's hard to explain, you just inherently know that the Bible is true when you become a Christian. Sorry, I know that won't satisfy you. I was very anti-Christian before that moment. I guess the proof to me is how the Bible speaks to my heart, I just know it to be true.

    See but I'm not 'anti' anything, really, other than being anti-killing and anti-maiming people.
    The problem arises when faiths dictate that their will HAS to be foced upon others, no matter what the cost. This is what we are seeing with the über-radical Salafistic movement.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 4,325
    AceHole wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    When you deconstruct any form of blind faith (and yes it is 'blind' unless you are given tangible, concrete evidence to the contrary) it honestly doesn't seem any more reasonable than claiming that the tooth fairy is actually the main driving force behind our existence.
    The SIZE or amount of subscribers to a certain idea does not increase it's validity or help it stand up better to the above scrutiny, quite frankly.

    In the words of John Newton, 'I once was blind, now I see.'

    'See' what, exactly? I can accept that a religion can give you clarity or support, especially in times of distress, but are you not thirsty for actual proof of the things you are told to believe in..?
    Just wondering, not trying to heat up the issue any further :)

    The truth. It's hard to explain, you just inherently know that the Bible is true when you become a Christian. Sorry, I know that won't satisfy you. I was very anti-Christian before that moment. I guess the proof to me is how the Bible speaks to my heart, I just know it to be true.

    See but I'm not 'anti' anything, really, other than being anti-killing and anti-maiming people.
    The problem arises when faiths dictate that their will HAS to be foced upon others, no matter what the cost. This is what we are seeing with the über-radical Salafistic movement.

    Yes, I was saying that I was anti-Christian before I became a Christian. I don't believe anyone can be forced to become a Christian, no human being can make another become a Christian. It is not possible. When someone becomes a Christian it is because God has made it happen not man.
  • Posts: 4,615
    "Fair enough @patb, but surely you'll agree that all religions have decent concepts & principles within them. Such concepts help to keep people honest, charitable, looking out for their neighbour etc., as well as focused on living a purposeful life."

    I could not comment on all religions but, yes, it would be churlish to say that religions do not have some good bits but those who promote religion are always cherry picking parts that fit in with our modern society and don't mention the bits that he have worked out on our own are pretty bad. Nothing in the 10 commandments about rape or slavery but western democracy's without the aid of religion have managed to work out that these are bad things.

    Plus the other things you mention have nothing to do with religion and exist on their own. We under mine our own sense of morality and self respect as a species if we take the line that truth, honesty, respect etc must exist within the confines of religion. They are standalone values..end of.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited March 2016 Posts: 11,139
    @tanaka123, you're a good Christian so it would seem and unlike me a patient one at that. It's clear you have a strong relationship with Christ. As a follower of Christ myself I'll be the first to admit that I'm an incredibly deeply flawed human being and I dont hold myself above anyone else, irrespective of what they choose to believe or not to believe, thats their prerogative; it's not my place to judge, bible bash, point the finger nor condemn people. I have my own relationship with Christ and I know what my own spiritual experiences are and I know full well God doesnt expect me to be perfect which is why my channel of communication with him is on a daily basis. I can't and would never speak for anyone else other than myself but after the things I've seen, been through and come out of; for me, as much as I seldom discuss my faith on the internet, El Shaddai is definitely real.
  • tanaka123 wrote: »
    I guess the proof to me is how the Bible speaks to my heart, I just know it to be true.

    Like the guy 'knew' wavelink was to be the title of the new bond film?

  • edited March 2016 Posts: 4,615
    All religious people think that their book is the truth and, by implication, the other books are wrong. "Yes, but my book is the truth" No room for words like "possibly" or "perhaps" etc. Religions demand 100% faith and that can't be good for compromise and understanding.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2016 Posts: 9,117
    tanaka123 wrote: »

    Excellent question. I guess I don't feel a sense of superiority because I and everyone deserve to go to hell because we have not lived with God in charge of our lives. It is Christ himself who is superior, that's why I boast in him and not myself. I have done nothing to deserve to go to heaven - not one iota.

    Well given you actually believe all this tosh doesn't that worry you? If you actually 'believe' that you are going to burn in hell for eternity shouldnt you be a teensy bit perturbed? How do you go about you're daily life without having a mental breakdown? Shouldn't you be putting every waking hour into digging wells in Africa and helping the homeless to try and get some credit it in the bank? Why are you wasting your time on here? You won't have a leg to stand on when St. Peter says 'Remember 23rd March 2016? If you'd spent that day visiting the sick instead of typing a load of twaddle on the internet you might have got in but as it is its furnace time for you.'

    Go out and do some good deeds @tanaka123 or you're going to burn with the rest of us!
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    isn't it amazing that Christ himself took that penalty? Even though I deserve to go to hell I won't. There is an amazing offer, a gift of mercy.

    Phew you're ok - get of jail free card. Cheers Jesus.

    tanaka123 wrote: »

    But God sacrificed his Son, to pay the penalty for my sin so that i could be right with him again.


    So God created the entire universe so us little beings created in his image could roam about freely (somewhat narcissistic but never mind let's carry on). But then he felt compelled to sacrifice his son (also himself) to appease his own anger that the beings he created did not play by the rules he had created.

    Just one question - why? What's the bloody point? I can understand it's rather dull sitting on a cloud all day but why not just get a PS4 instead?

    If God was so pissed off at us for living sinful lives why not just make us good rather than all this palaver of sending Jesus?

    The whole thing's so illogical and full of holes it might have been written by P&W.
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Pick me up on anything that doesn't make sense

    Priceless.
    tanaka123 wrote: »

    The truth. It's hard to explain, you just inherently know that the Bible is true when you become a Christian. Sorry, I know that won't satisfy you. I was very anti-Christian before that moment. I guess the proof to me is how the Bible speaks to my heart, I just know it to be true.

    Ok hands up. You've done me there. Checkmate.

    Might as well close the thread now mods as the debate is over.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Bloody hell, @Wiz, savage!
  • @Wiz lmao
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