Deadly attacks in Paris / Brussels / Nice (07/14/2016)

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  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Shocking developments in France tonight. Looks to be deliberate. Devastating.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Terrible news.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    A bit close for comfort. Was cruising down the Promenade d'Anglais to meet my mate barely two weeks ago.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Another shitty day for the French. We have a love/hate relationship, but a good one. This is just utter bullshit. I can rip the French with the best of them, but they're a great bunch of people. Condolences.

  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    God save us.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    God save us.

    God is the problem mate.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    God save us.

    God is the problem mate.

    Bang on.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    73 now dead. Lorry loaded with guns and grenades.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 1,661
    Not reported by mainstream UK press - there has been major civil unrest in France in recent months:

    http://anonhq.com/violent-protests-labor-strikes-halt-france-hollande-attempts-slay-workers-rights-investigative/

    There are major problem in France, not just these awful terrorist attacks which might be directly attributable to France's foreign policy and its own treatment of muslims - considered second class citizens:
    In France, the so-called enemy is already within as we have been our own worst enemy. More security, more characterisation of the disenfranchised as “others,” and more Je Suis Charlie movements, are only going to pave the way for further attacks. It is time for French society to realise its own shortcomings. If it chooses to remain at war in the Middle East, if keeps treating its Muslim population as second-class citizens, it cannot shed crocodile tears when innocent civilians are suffering the consequences of its disastrous politics.

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/paris-attacks-state-must-integrates-french-muslim-or-face-more-violence-1181881404

    Murder is murder but even murderers/terrorists have an agenda. Rarely do they kill without some reason and there is more to this than we truly understand. Muslims are treated badly in France (from what I've read and seen reported).

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Tragic news. Not unexpected, but tragic nonetheless. My sincere condolences to the people of France. I have been to Nice a couple of times. It's a wonderful place and its people are completely undeserving of this kind of horror.
  • Posts: 6,432
    I am watching the BBC coverage, so many families and young children this is horrendous 77 dead.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Je suis Nice.... =((
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I'm speechless. Rest in peace to all innocent people who were brutally murdered.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    God save us.

    God is the problem mate.

    Their sadistic god, yes.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I'm devastated. I go to Nice/Cannes every year in Spring for a couple of days, I know the cities very well and know a lot of people there.
    Just woke up an hour ago (it's almost 5 in the morning here) and some minutes ago I saw this thread was updated when checking MI6).

    I'm losing all trust in human kind. I'm not sure what is happening since a couple of years will not destroy our ability to feel free.
    If, I say if, this was a terrorist attack by some man who considers himself islamic, then this will damage our society in Europe indefinitely.
    I almost hope it was just a "nut", a "simple" mass murderer.
    Sorry if this is out of line.
    I'm just a nerv wreck right now :(
  • Posts: 5,993
    As if my day couldn't get any worse ! Right now, I'm in the middle of an attack by the stomach flu which has kept me awake since midnight (pain going from one side of the belly to the other, and I'll be lucky if I don't throw up), getting up to prepare for work (let's hope things will be good on that front, but I doubt it), I go on my favourite sites, and here's that. And to think yesterday went rather well. No, there are days when you shouldn't get out of bed.

    More on that later, the time to reorganize my thoughts. Here, I'm still in the denial stage, and I'd rather not post while in the anger stage.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,136
    My thoughts and condolences to the people of France and Nice. More despicable and cowardly attacks on innocent people.
    RIP to those tragically lost.
  • Posts: 11,119
    AceHole wrote: »

    So if you move to Jakarta next week with three children, you don't expect ANY kind of help from the local authority to guide or assist you in settling in and connecting, learning the language?

    No I don't.

    When I moved to Moscow in the early noughties it was my choice. After struggling through the first day I spent all evening learning the alphabet so I could get around on the metro because the taxpayer hadn't payed for all the signs to be in English for me. Then I paid my own money to have Russian lessons.

    At not one point did I think 'This is is a bit out of order. They really should have signs in English everywhere and fish and chip shops and Only Fools and Horses on the telly to help me feel at home.'

    I had moved to a foreign country and it was up to me to assimilate into their culture no the other way round.

    It sickens me when I go to the doctors and I see signs in 15 different languages. The NHS is dying on its arse but there's plenty of cash to spare to translate stuff for those who probably haven't paid an NI contribution in their lives. This country.



    I moved to Barcelona, Spain, by myself as well. But despite trying very hard, I find it hard to assimilate. Despite working my butts off, I make mistakes. Perhaps it's because I have a personality disorder syndrome with traits that are labeled as mild autism or Asperger. And then I have Bipolar Syndrome and Borderline Syndrome. So once you have all these problems, you're prone to making more mistakes in society.

    That is: Events that are considered mistakes in a structured society with a capitalist, individualistic and liberal nature, but that are not felt as such by the person who is suffering from psychological disorders. Thus, this results in, for instance my case, a huge tax burden in Spain that I have to pay back. Factually I caused it myself, but I feel that society caused it to me.

    You make it all sound so black and white. And you always sound so harsh. I think it's at that point that you make one important mistake: Not every human being is so fierce, so strong and so straightforward as you. There are more vulnerable people these days. People who, despite their personal struggles, can not keep up with society. People that, despite failing in one (native) country, decide to look for a solution by moving to another country that perhaps is less prone to stress.

    We are all fighting @TheWizardOfIce. But we are fighting in our own ways. And sometimes that fight is perceived differently because of the general public opinion. Then it's not considered a fight by people like you, but only a weakness that needs to be eliminated from society.
  • Posts: 4,615
    Every time, we are now getting into a grotesque and very sad routine:
    Politicians "re-doubling" their efforts, voices of support from other countries, national monuments lit up in national colours, candles lit to remember the dead, police getting blamed for not doing more etc etc. Non of this does anything to deal with the root cause and until we can have an open and honest debate about all of the possible causes, we will see more and more of these attacks.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Tragic. Just goes to show that the guns aren"'t the problem. These people will find a way. And yet the left is still too cowardly to point out the true cause of this evil.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,119
    patb wrote: »
    Every time, we are now getting into a grotesque and very sad routine:
    Politicians "re-doubling" their efforts, voices of support from other countries, national monuments lit up in national colours, candles lit to remember the dead, police getting blamed for not doing more etc etc. Non of this does anything to deal with the root cause and until we can have an open and honest debate about all of the possible causes, we will see more and more of these attacks.

    I think, in all honesty, there's nothing you can do about it. In the recent past this kind of terrorism seemed only limited to Israel and how Israeli government conducted anti-terrorism policies.

    But the unorganized terrorism, terrorism executed by loners, is now among us in most countries in Europe and North-America. Back in 2001 we witnessed the worst terrorist attack in history, 9/11. But that attack was very organized and run by Al-Qaida.

    Terrorism of today isn't that organized anymore. Too many loners, who feel left out from society, who are not integrated, or who simply are not able to work themselves up into the middle class, feel left out from society.

    They therefore turn to destructive ideologies, that are not necessarily sane religions. Therefore they execute these attacks because of cold, plain, psychotic revenge motifs. And yes, they say they act in name of 'something', sometimes even ISIS. But the fact is ISIS doesn't run or coordinate these attacks pro-actively.

    So then you get this mess. As long as wealth and prosperity isn't equally distributed across the planet, the very absence of it is a facilitator for mass migration. It's the nature of Homo Sapiens. It happened after the demise of the Roman Empire, when nomads migrated to places with better natural resources (from the Italian peninsula to the North), and it happens now on a much larger global scale. And if prosperous regions across the planet, which most of Western Society is, can not cope with that fact and can not integrate these immigrants properly, they will never benefit from the wealth like natives in Western Society do. They facilitate 'broken, uneven demographics', in which the middle class slowly, but fiercely gets destroyed.

    This is what's happening now. And there's nothing you can do about it. Well, there's something you can do. Make sure that wealth is distributed more equally and make sure education reform becomes pivotal. But in today's Western Society that's not possible anymore. There's too much gridlock in democracies, that prevent necessary reform. And investing in integration? That might be too late also, because all efforts related to that are being halted by populist forces in Western Society.

    It's a sick mess really. All we can do is saying: "May they rest in peace".
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Not reported by mainstream UK press - there has been major civil unrest in France in recent months:

    http://anonhq.com/violent-protests-labor-strikes-halt-france-hollande-attempts-slay-workers-rights-investigative/

    There are major problem in France, not just these awful terrorist attacks which might be directly attributable to France's foreign policy and its own treatment of muslims - considered second class citizens:
    In France, the so-called enemy is already within as we have been our own worst enemy. More security, more characterisation of the disenfranchised as “others,” and more Je Suis Charlie movements, are only going to pave the way for further attacks. It is time for French society to realise its own shortcomings. If it chooses to remain at war in the Middle East, if keeps treating its Muslim population as second-class citizens, it cannot shed crocodile tears when innocent civilians are suffering the consequences of its disastrous politics.

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/paris-attacks-state-must-integrates-french-muslim-or-face-more-violence-1181881404

    Murder is murder but even murderers/terrorists have an agenda. Rarely do they kill without some reason and there is more to this than we truly understand. Muslims are treated badly in France (from what I've read and seen reported).

    "France must integrate French Muslims or face more violence". How about they integrate? You know what, I fucking hate religion. I wish every religious nut would fuck off to a big island where they can fight it out between themselves over who knows best. Leave the rest of us to live normal lives. Fucking twats.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Some people are already blaming the victims I see. But there's no problem with Islam, no sir.
  • Posts: 11,119
    patb wrote: »
    Every time, we are now getting into a grotesque and very sad routine:
    Politicians "re-doubling" their efforts, voices of support from other countries, national monuments lit up in national colours, candles lit to remember the dead, police getting blamed for not doing more etc etc. Non of this does anything to deal with the root cause and until we can have an open and honest debate about all of the possible causes, we will see more and more of these attacks.

    I think, in all honesty, there's nothing you can do about it. In the recent past this kind of terrorism seemed only limited to Israel and how Israeli government conducted anti-terrorism policies.

    But the unorganized terrorism, terrorism executed by loners, is now among us in most countries in Europe and North-America. Back in 2001 we witnessed the worst terrorist attack in history, 9/11. But that attack was very organized and run by Al-Qaida.

    Terrorism of today isn't that organized anymore. Too many loners, who feel left out from society, who are not integrated, or who simply are not able to work themselves up into the middle class, feel left out from society.

    They therefore turn to destructive ideologies, that are not necessarily sane religions. Therefore they execute these attacks because of cold, plain, psychotic revenge motifs. And yes, they say they act in name of 'something', sometimes even ISIS. But the fact is ISIS doesn't run or coordinate these attacks pro-actively.

    So then you get this mess. As long as wealth and prosperity isn't equally distributed across the planet, the very absence of it is a facilitator for mass migration. It's the nature of Homo Sapiens. It happened after the demise of the Roman Empire, when nomads migrated to places with better natural resources (from the Italian peninsula to the North), and it happens now on a much larger global scale. And if prosperous regions across the planet, which most of Western Society is, can not cope with that fact and can not integrate these immigrants properly, they will never benefit from the wealth like natives in Western Society do. They facilitate 'broken, uneven demographics', in which the middle class slowly, but fiercely gets destroyed.

    This is what's happening now. And there's nothing you can do about it. Well, there's something you can do. Make sure that wealth is distributed more equally and make sure education reform becomes pivotal. But in today's Western Society that's not possible anymore. There's too much gridlock in democracies, that prevent necessary reform. And investing in integration? That might be too late also, because all efforts related to that are being halted by populist forces in Western Society.

    It's a sick mess really. All we can do is saying: "May they rest in peace".
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 4,615
    "Too many loners, who feel left out from society, who are not integrated, or who simply are not able to work themselves up into the middle class, feel left out from society."

    Feeling lonely, feeling left out of society, not integrated, working class, feeling left out,
    There are thousands in France who may feel those emotions but dont hire a lorry and kill 84 people. The determination to exclude the role of religion within the debate and seek alternative motivations (no matter how spurious) is clear for all to see. Come back to me with that argument when you see a lonely, poor isolated, working class, non-integrated atheist speeding around Nice in a lorry.

    The concept of a better place to spend eternity where you are rewarded for your actions in this temporary state is extremely dangerous and is, be definition, unique to religion. It defines our life on this planet as transient (and therefore secondary) and provides unique leverage in being able to motivate people to behave in a certain way in order to receive greater benefits. The lorry driver is now enjoying the wonderful erotic attentions of a large amount of virgins. In his head, at the time he was driving the lorry, that is cast iron fact. This is the level of lunacy that we have to deal with.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    patb wrote: »
    "Too many loners, who feel left out from society, who not integrated, or who simply are not able to work themselves up into the middle class, feel left out from society."

    Feeling lonely, feeling left out of society, not integrated, working class, feeling left out,
    There are thousands in France who may feel those emotions but dont hire a lorry and kill 84 people. The determination to exclude the role of religion within the debate and seek alternative motivations (no matter how spurious) is clear for all to see. Come back to me with that argument when you see a lonely, poor isolated, working class, non-integrated atheist speeding around Nice in a lorry.

    Exactly. How is handing terrorist free money through 'wealth redistribution' going to help the problem? The next time a white cop shoots a black teenager in america, will we be saying he was just lonely and isolated? No, I'm sure we will be making a few assumptions then. But with these Muslims we just have to grin and bare it, it just happens. Pathetic excuses from the left.
  • Posts: 11,119
    patb wrote: »
    "Too many loners, who feel left out from society, who are not integrated, or who simply are not able to work themselves up into the middle class, feel left out from society."

    Feeling lonely, feeling left out of society, not integrated, working class, feeling left out,
    There are thousands in France who may feel those emotions but dont hire a lorry and kill 84 people. The determination to exclude the role of religion within the debate and seek alternative motivations (no matter how spurious) is clear for all to see. Come back to me with that argument when you see a lonely, poor isolated, working class, non-integrated atheist speeding around Nice in a lorry.

    Why so damn harsh! Dammit. There's nothing wrong with religion to me, as long as it's peacefully executed. Once people revert to religion and create a motherf$%@ng psychotic murderous beast out of it, then for ME it stops being a peaceful religion.

    And as long as we do not ASK OURSELVES WHY PEOPLE REVERT TO RADICAL MURDEROUS TENDENCIES OF ISLAM INSTEAD OF THE PEACEFUL HUMANIST SIDE OF ISLAM, and if we continue to slam all Muslims, NO SOLUTION WILL BE FOUND! Poverty, hopelessness, dire prosperity prospects, lack of education and bad financial outlooks are ALWAYS linked to this question. Once you ignore that and fail to see the complexity of all this, you only worsen things.


    Basta!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2016 Posts: 15,716
    Basta!

    As the creator of this thread almost 12 months ago, I ask you to calm down and stop cursing like a mad man, otherwise please leave this thread until you calm down so we can have a peaceful conversation here instead of having ridiculous posts like yours that will cause a heated discussion. I am tired of having posts like that causing mayhem in serious threads where we should be calm and be in solidarity against extremism and terrorism.
  • Posts: 4,615
    "There's nothing wrong with religion to me,"

    and here is more of the issue, religion is perfect and, therefore, free of critique as something perfect cannot be criticised. And anyone who does is labelled as harsh and gets the response of angry caps lock .
    The idea that religion is not perfect cannot be debated without causing emotion and offence in those who are convinced it is beyond critique.

    There is just so much wrong with religion at so many levels but its impossible to have a debate within our current culture.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    "There's nothing wrong with religion to me,"

    and here is more of the issue, religion is perfect and, therefore, free of critique as something perfect cannot be criticised. And anyone who does is labelled as harsh and gets the response of angry caps lock .
    The idea that religion is not perfect cannot be debated without causing emotion and offence in those who are convinced it is beyond critique.

    There is just so much wrong with religion at so many levels but its impossible to have a debate within our current culture.

    Spot on. It's a disease of the mind. The sooner people jack in this nonsense, the better.
This discussion has been closed.