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You are obviously analphabetic. There is a difference between terrorists of 2001 and today's terrorists. You blatantly refuse to understand the reasoning behind today's terrorists, by making utterly false assumptions that I am dumb. You should be ashamed of how you react to all this.
I prefer to be measured:
Problem with the moderate religious people is that there's no way to assess their view of their sacred text as the correct one. In fact often if you read said sacred text you need to twist it and ignore a lot of unsavoury aspects of it to have a moderate view of the doctrine it preaches.
Thank. YOU. @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 . Finally someone who agrees with me. I think you hit the nail on the head. I have been really frustrated at how the discussion tends to become a blamefinger-discussion in which we accuse the left or the right. I admire your nuance, your sanity and your....well.....measured post. More people should do that. I fully agree with your post.
And to all people who respond to @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. Give an equally measured and nuanced response please. He is not typing such a long post for the sake of becoming typecasted as 'leftist' or 'weirdo'. He just wanted to make clear that there's a difference between people who practice religion in a peaceful way and people who abuse it and recreate it into a violent radical ideology. You have peaceful Muslims, Jews, Mormons and Christians. But you also have murderers, pedophiles, suicide criminals, psychopaths and...terrorists who act in name of a religion and twist and turn that religion into violent sectarian propaganda.
If we CAN NOT make that distinction, then we won't find a solution. And for those who think I should limit my posts to 'incompetent box office predictions'..........well, to those I say: Let a moderator come in between for such remarks as well. It's the content of name-calling and bullying that destroys a good discussion as well.
We have some politicians who cant even say certain words, such is the hypersensitivity created by well meaning liberals who seek to protect Islam from any critique and the cowardess of mainstream politics not to deal with these issues.
Do these terrorists seek to promote Islam? Yes
Are they radical? You bet
But our leaders cant even say the words. How the hell can we have a genuine dialogue under such a ridiculous culture?
Obviously there's no excuse for this atrocity. But...are you serious that you are implying that some in here want to falsely justify such an act? If so, then please understand that's not the case.
You are saying we should accept that such attacks will happen from now on and that they can't be stopped. That is factually justifying such attacks.
I'll agree that's quite a good post by @Brady, even though there are parts of it I don't agree with, but it's a bit rich of you to piggy back on it given your previous comments thus:
This is neither nuanced nor well measured. It's just 6th form Socialist Worker rhetoric which has been shown thoughout history to be a load of old bollocks. Did you miss the Berlin Wall coming down? It's a nice idea but it doesn't work in reality.
PS - Repetitivley writing the word 'nuance' every third sentence doesn't make your arguments any more valid.
Indeed. 'Just put up with it as we haven't got a clue' seems to be the only answer the politicians have. Desperate times.
The prospective leader of the free world still more concerned with not offending Islam than doing anything about it. Pathetic.
I have NEVER said that we should accept such attacks. I said that they can't be stopped......as long as we don't understand the complexities of this and instead start raging a counter-war on Islam!
By 'complexities' you just mean to absolve Muslims of any responsibility for their own actions.
The first one is about religion. Yes, it is a delusion (there is no hard evidence for god as we know, just anecdotal). I don't know who drove the lorry, but ultimately most of the attacks in France and elsewhere have been by people who are religiously minded, and perpetrated 'in the name' of Islam, in this case.
The second one is simply about 'war'. There is indeed a war going on, and it's been going on for quite some time. It got more intensive in 2003, and then has escalated since then. That is primarily against countries with large Islamic populations. Islam is a very unified religion, and in some ways is more than that - it's actually more of a culture. So those who see themselves as culturally and religiously similar to the people being killed in the Middle East will be affected emotionally. Retaliation is inevitable. Add the fact that there are a vast number of young disaffected males in society, and you have an explosive mix. They feel a need to kill infidels and avenge their fallen brothers, no doubt.
The third one is about Islam not being able to adapt to the West. Here, I disagree. That is too broad a judgement. I know many practicing Muslims who fit well into Western society and yet are deeply religious. Turkey, for example, is modern and relatively open as a society (despite Erdogan's attempts) and is Muslim. Malaysia is not radical and is a Muslim country. There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan.
No, as we have discussed whenever these incidents occur, there is a brand of Islamic ideology, namely the Wahhabist one that originates from Western 'friend' Saudi Arabia. This is the theology that is responsible for radicalising the youth and for inspiring ISIL/Daesh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism
The West will not address this head on because of it's need to sell weapons to the Kingdoms and buy their oil. The citizens are being duped.
The Saudis have actually been funding Wahhabist madrassas globally, and folks have been turning a blind eye to it. Instead, they are going miles away and dropping bombs, when the problems are actually at home.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yousaf-butt-/saudi-wahhabism-islam-terrorism_b_6501916.html
I also believe that Sharia should not be allowed in Western societies. Period. It will open up a can of worms. If that's unacceptable to those who are religiously inclined, then they should perhaps move somewhere else.
However, I am most upset by the apparent lack of efforts to stop the Wahhabist ideology from spreading in Saudi funded institutions. I am not sure if the spy agencies have infiltrated such religious places, but if not, they should immediately. This is where the hate is coming from. Bottom line, they aren't doing enough on this front.
This is the profile of the perpetrator:
So, again, this is a man who isn't an active ISIS terrorist or went to Syria. He is 'inspired' by it, yes. But he isn't by far a person that one can earmark in an early stage as a 'potential radical terrorist'. He is Muslim yes, but by far a devoted one.
And a prime reason he 'exploded' into this terrorist attack, had to do with the fact that he was already a small criminal in his own neighborhood.
Secondly, I fully agree with you @BondJames on what you say about the Islam. I also believe there's room for a more enlightened, 'westernized' Islam. And in The Netherlands that is already happening. I had the privilege to actually organize a combined service between Muslims and Christians in Enschede. And through intense negotiations, we more or less pressed the Muslims in Enschede to be a bit more 'different' with the building plans for a new mosque.
And look what it got them?
Right now it's already an attraction with non-Muslim citizens in Enschede. They fell in love with this mosque.
So let me see if I've got this straight: @gustav can't say "Basta" (according to my dictionary, a term of vulgar origins basically meaning, "enough already") without receiving a rebuke, while others can say "Fuck" all they want as long as they're saying "fuck religion"? Glad I've been giving this thread a miss for the most part...
Do you see borders? Do you.....really believe every country on this globe can be surrounded by one continuous border of fences that, when trespassed, cause death? Do you really believe that one customs port, or 10, or 50...can dramatically reduce the massive immigrant crisis we are facing? Right now as we speak, Hungary's fence doesn't seem to work...
would say we are at war. Having to show passports at borders, shouldn't
be a huge infringement, It wouldn't bother me.
Correct. Let's put this failed project to bed, close our borders to the terrorists, and venerate the nation state. There is nothing wrong with national identity and national pride.
Nonsense. There are plenty of things European leaders could do about it. A great first step would be for them to do everything they can to stop people who follow the set of beliefs called islam from coming to Europe.
How exactly?
More truth. Funny how leaders condemn Christians for disagreeing with gay marriage, but are quick to downplay Muslim terrorist acts. Apparently we're just supposed to accept that this will be a regular occurrence from now on. Utterly spineless.
It would be tough but I believe I could live with that.
1. Working together with North-African and Middle-Eastern leaders.
2. Petrolling the Mediterranean Sea and immediately shipping rescued people back to North-Africa instead of shipping them to Italy.
3. Border barriers + soldiers at the borders between Turkey and the EU (Greece & Bulgaria). Despite the nonsense that you wrote earlier, border barriers DO work, and the Hungarian fence DOES work. source: https://i.redditmedia.com/aM8j0TbzLOo4-e8MIedh-6NpRKNbFZXKODFMk0w2Bk8.jpg?w=1024&s=1062de080ce9b7607b63cb33e2fed271
4. Making life in Europe for migrants as unappealing as possible, without being inhumane. (For example: as little benefits as possible.)
I completely agree. What I was saying is that if the leaders can condemn Christians they should be able to condemn Muslims as well. We are either enlightened or we aren't.