SPECTRE, most fun Bond adventure in decades?

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  • edited March 2017 Posts: 489
    I don't think anyone wanted to hate Spectre, it's just a film that, after Skyfall, disappointed on many levels.
  • Posts: 142
    The entire Craig series is great counterpoint to the earlier Bonds, SP especially. He saves Lucia Sciarra’s life and then seduces her, giving her an escape plan before leaving, rather than her being killed off. Dr. Madeleine Swann, the daughter of one of his most celebrated villain’s Mr. White, is his heroine, his lady in distress. His nemesis, is his step-brother, not some foreign unknown personality, but in essence his doppelganger his emotional look-a-like. If the Bond films were music, then SP would be a Fugue, to the lighter Concerto of a Bronson film or maybe DN seen as a simple quartet. The dark heavy weightiness of SP, set it apart from slapstick comedy of Moore, and it is a pleasant change from the standard form Bond films. Some days a light “she done me wrong” song with a snappy rhythm is great, and then some days it takes something heavy with a dark mood, something like SP to loosen the cobwebs of conformity in the brain.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Well let me put it this way @Birdleson, and my previous comment was not aimed at you specifically. I understand and respect your consistent dislike of Spectre and your right to discuss it however you wish, but I wonder what is to be gained from such persistent criticism of the film on a fan forum where presumably most of us come to discuss something we love and to hear news about what's happening next (at least that's why I come here - I certainly don't profess to be an expert or a purist on Bond). Maybe you are genuinely concerned about the direction of the franchise, and that's fair enough, you're certainly not alone there, but after a certain point, maybe you would enjoy yourself more focussing on the reasons you do love Bond - about how amazing Goldfinger, Thunderball and Connery are - than on the few things you don't enjoy? Just a general suggestion - I do actually appreciate your knowledge of the franchise and agree with you on most other points.

    My comment was, I thought, an obvious attempt at humor. In response to your initial premise.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That is an odd thing with Craig, he looks old before he is old. There are times when he looks ancient.

    Birdleson wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    With SP, Craig & Mendes I found out that I was no longer interested in 007 if they come again in this team.
    This movie has really put me of any further outing for Craig. I prefer a new 007 who has NO creative input at all.
    It was the worst action movie in quite a while and its content was laughable. The movie has done very little good for my trust in the running of this franchise.
    SO in no way SP brought anything good to the franchise but the need of serious reboot.

    Sometimes I feel similarly. Not just with Purvis and Wade, and the deference to actors, but with this cohesion that they've forced upon us. I didn't mind CR to QOS, it was novelty in the franchise, a one time sequel (or so I thought). I did like SF quite a bit overall, but the part that I disliked was giving Bond too much of a back story, and my issues with SP are well-known, that being a part of it. If I wait three to four years only to be disappointed with another film more concerned with continuity, world-creating and homage than a fresh and exciting, well-thought out, stand-alone adventure (a true mission), then I don't know if I'll be that interested as to what comes after. I've gone through long periods of disinterest in the past when EON has let me down, some taking decades to fully recover from.


    Are you from German decent perhaps?
  • Posts: 2,107
    It's most fun since 2008. So almost a decade.

    :/
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    SharkBait wrote: »
    It's most fun since 2008. So almost a decade.

    :/

    Glad I'm not the only one that finds QoS fun at times.
  • SharkBait wrote: »
    It's most fun since 2008. So almost a decade.

    :/

    Glad I'm not the only one that finds QoS fun at times.


    Hey! Me too...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @dramaticscenesofQOS, as a QoS supporter, how'd you feel about Mr. White's return and use in SP?
  • @dramaticscenesofQOS, as a QoS supporter, how'd you feel about Mr. White's return and use in SP?


    I feel like it was probably my favorite part about SP. To see Mr. White again in the first scene of being hooked up to an IV similar to how he was at the beginning of QoS was obviously a bit of homage. It was interesting in how he was a source of Vesper's demise and yet his departing gift was to entrust Bond with his daughter's life.

    It was quite different to see Mr. White in the condition he was and I agree with some fans here that it would have been better had he been revealed to be Blofeld but all in all the story fit together and to have SP acknowledge QoS, even mentioning the word "solace" in one scene, and having desert landscape shots on 35mm film again, it was definately a sequel worth nearly 8 years in waiting.

    Mr. White's return was well-done all in all, and it just might be a good thing that the missing last scene from QoS didn't make it to the theatres, by Marc Forster's decision: White may have been wasted in that one scene to not be brought back for Spectre.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @dramaticscenesofQOS, as a QoS supporter, how'd you feel about Mr. White's return and use in SP?


    I feel like it was probably my favorite part about SP. To see Mr. White again in the first scene of being hooked up to an IV similar to how he was at the beginning of QoS was obviously a bit of homage. It was interesting in how he was a source of Vesper's demise and yet his departing gift was to entrust Bond with his daughter's life.

    It was quite different to see Mr. White in the condition he was and I agree with some fans here that it would have been better had he been revealed to be Blofeld but all in all the story fit together and to have SP acknowledge QoS, even mentioning the word "solace" in one scene, and having desert landscape shots on 35mm film again, it was definately a sequel worth nearly 8 years in waiting.

    Mr. White's return was well-done all in all, and it just might be a good thing that the missing last scene from QoS didn't make it to the theatres, by Marc Forster's decision: White may have been wasted in that one scene to not be brought back for Spectre.

    @dramaticscenesofQOS, I agree. I used to be upset about how White was cut from the ending of QoS, because I was worried that the arc would never be touched on again, especially after SF came around with a new vision for the era.

    I was ecstatic and very moved then, once I heard White's voice in the first SP trailer and how he was being presented as a haunted shell of his old self. I really respect how he was written into the film, very naturally and with a great importance. He's there for just one scene, but those few minutes really do make an impact. I also like that the film didn't bother with telling a story of redemption for his character. Instead we see him as a man who tried to turn noble too late, and in doing so realized that he'd died with nobody to keep him company but himself. It's a very stark, haunting image to have of White, but I think the tragedy of his character will keep him from being forgotten for quite a while. I definitely loved his use there and how he was employed to recall the past films visually and through his words. It's quite a crazy thing that the man Bond shot and stood over in CR all those years later was teaching him a vital lesson on how to live, a lesson even he failed to follow soon enough.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Mr White is one of the most memorable villains from the Craig era,he has been used well in all 3 films he was involved in IMO.



  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    The Mr.White segment is my favourite part of SP.
  • Posts: 19,339
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    The Mr.White segment is my favourite part of SP.

    With me,it is only beaten by the train fight,but its my 2nd favourite for sure.

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Me? Are you calling me a Nazi?
    That depends. Do you love Sauerkraut?

  • Thunderball007Thunderball007 United States
    edited July 2017 Posts: 306
    As a Spectre-lover, I can understand some of the criticism but it seems a little overdone to me.

    In terms of fun, it is such a subjective thing, it depends completely on one's sense of humour, on whether you focus on plot, themes or atmosphere, and on what you compare it to. Personally, if I am watching Bond purely for fun, then give me any Brozza, or Golden Gun or Octopussy. However, blending the light hearted into the fundamentally dark world of Bond is a very tricky balance to strike, and obviously different directors use different techniques to achieve this. For me, I actually prefer the balance of QOS and SF, where you have an essentially serious character who, in between breaths, can still see the lighter side of things, and thus it gives those moments more power. However, I see Spectre as a natural progression from this, where Bond is now in his absolute prime, he oozes self-assurance and apart from very brief moments of panic (Hinx train fight), he basically has it all under control (hence the lighter tone of the car chase, his recovery from the torture chair). So I think the lighter aspects of Spectre mainly relate to Bond's character and make sense in terms of his development, while the darker aspects relate mainly to the crazy world he inhabits.

    Finally, I still think the PTS is untouchable after many rewatches. The swagger, the grand scale, the sheer danger of the helicopter and the music all work perfectly. That scene alone would already put Spectre in the top half for me.

    Yes! Nice observation! I think of this, too!
  • Posts: 7,415
    I still think the entire section set in Rome is one of the most entertaining sections from the entire series ( and yes, that includes the car chase!)
  • Posts: 7,653
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    I still think the entire section set in Rome is one of the most entertaining sections from the entire series ( and yes, that includes the car chase!)

    I am from the Netherlands and really curious what you have been smoking prior to writing this entry. ;)
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    Posts: 233
    Is it the most fun? For me no! What I can say is that I think this might be the most "Brosnan-esque" entry in over a decade - in fact I can easily see Brozzer playing Bond in this one (and indeed I think it would have suited Pierce's Bond better than Daniel's).
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Satorious wrote: »
    Is it the most fun? For me no! What I can say is that I think this might be the most "Brosnan-esque" entry in over a decade - in fact I can easily see Brozzer playing Bond in this one (and indeed I think it would have suited Pierce's Bond better than Daniel's).

    And I think had they made Die Another Day the film it was supposed to be, with the torture at the beginning, it would've suited Craig more than Brosnan. It's crazy, but I really think Die Another Day and SPECTRE have a lot of comparisons.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Satorious wrote: »
    Is it the most fun? For me no! What I can say is that I think this might be the most "Brosnan-esque" entry in over a decade - in fact I can easily see Brozzer playing Bond in this one (and indeed I think it would have suited Pierce's Bond better than Daniel's).

    And I think had they made Die Another Day the film it was supposed to be, with the torture at the beginning, it would've suited Craig more than Brosnan. It's crazy, but I really think Die Another Day and SPECTRE have a lot of comparisons.
    There was a thread on this here at one point, comparing the various Craig entries in sequence with Brosnan's. The OP found similarities as well.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Satorious wrote: »
    Is it the most fun? For me no! What I can say is that I think this might be the most "Brosnan-esque" entry in over a decade - in fact I can easily see Brozzer playing Bond in this one (and indeed I think it would have suited Pierce's Bond better than Daniel's).

    And I think had they made Die Another Day the film it was supposed to be, with the torture at the beginning, it would've suited Craig more than Brosnan. It's crazy, but I really think Die Another Day and SPECTRE have a lot of comparisons.

    A surgically altered baddie, ice palace and space laser are the Craig era all over. Good point.
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    Posts: 233
    Die Another Day and SPECTRE have a lot of comparisons.

    I think the nearest direct comparison to DAD is DAF, but take your point - there are many similarities between various entries.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    Good lord, to put SP and DAD in the same boat... I'm not sure if I should reply with laughter or invective. ;-)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Good lord, to put SP and DAD in the same boat... I'm not sure if I should reply with laughter or invective. ;-)

    @DarthDimi, they're carbon copies, don't you see? So myopic of you...
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    See, this is strange to me. SP is like red wine. There's a bit of cork in your glass but otherwise it's still a very good wine. DAD is a can of soda that was opened last week, forgotten, had three cigarettes put out in it, and is now served in a dirty glass. I understand that there are times when the cork is appalling and the soda sounds like the more refreshing option, but overall, you can barely compare these two.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    See, this is strange to me. SP is like red wine. There's a bit of cork in your glass but otherwise it's still a very good wine. DAD is a can of soda that was opened last week, forgotten, had three cigarettes put out in it, and is now served in a dirty glass. I understand that there are times when the cork is appalling and the soda sounds like the more refreshing option, but overall, you can barely compare these two.

    SP also works as an actual film, that you could use to teach in film school about how to stage scenes, shoot action, inject theme into a script, etc. DAD would be a headliner at the Razzie School of Bonkers Films, but no where else. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    DAD is a far more enjoyable experience for me; even though it does tank at some point. SP has me numb throughout.
    Agreed. On a strictly 'fun' basis, DAD is a far more enjoyable experience than SP for me. Fun is not a word I associate with the latest entry and I don't think the director had that in mind when he made it either (he may have certainly had loftier pretensions). DAD has me in stitches at points (most of the Jinx and Graves scenes come to mind).
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    See, this is strange to me. SP is like red wine. There's a bit of cork in your glass but otherwise it's still a very good wine. DAD is a can of soda that was opened last week, forgotten, had three cigarettes put out in it, and is now served in a dirty glass. I understand that there are times when the cork is appalling and the soda sounds like the more refreshing option, but overall, you can barely compare these two.

    I agree the two are only comparable in being the lowest points of either actor's tenure. And I like your analogy, though I find it a little inapt.

    SP is like someone uncorking a bottle of red wine, drinking the wine themselves, and then giving you the cork to gnaw on.

    DAD is like a refreshing soda (super sized if you please) that you get three quarters of the way through before somebody spits in your drink, and then you look down at it and go, "I don't want this anymore."
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,785
    Birdleson wrote: »
    As someone who was a film school major in a highly ranked program, neither of those films are going to be entered into any school's curriculum.
    What about my proposed Life Imitates Art film course?
    f485f6b167cfea68f1ccd45ec0a1a69acc098f7a.jpg

    Plus there's the eventual Michael Madsen Retrospective. Just a matter of time.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    They're both quite acidic for me.

    With SP I had been promised & expected finely aged expensive wine, but then I realized the bottle had been left out open for too long and had oxidized, leaving the distinct bitter aftertaste of vinegar.

    With DAD I always knew I was getting soda, but I thought it would be Coca Cola. Instead of the 'real deal', I realized I had been given generic store branded cola which someone hadn't closed properly, thereby letting all of the fizz out. So it ended up being stale, but still quite a bit sweeter than the bitter wine from above.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Birdleson wrote: »
    As someone who was a film school major in a highly ranked program, neither of those films are going to be entered into any school's curriculum.

    That is true; there has to be room made for all the pretentious French cinema and the overexposed Citizen Kanes of the medium.
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