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In time, will SP be more or less appreciated?

Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
in SPECTRE Posts: 403
It's hard to say at this point but I hope there isn't a Phantom Menace effect at play here. SF inaugurated a second coming of Bond mania but it's holes show much more explicitly today than when it came out and there's a lot of fair criticism levelled against it. SP has gotten mixed reviews and the US critics apparently don't like it all that much. The community has seemed to have a good reaction to it for now but that can easily change. I think it's a solid film, flawed but with lots of intriguing subtext and themes on surveillance (eyes, Nine Eyes, etc.), family (Madeleine, Bond, Blofeld, etc.), and (like SF) old vs. new, light vs. shadow, etc.
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Comments

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    No, I think it will be looked upon as one of the classics. It's flawed yes, but still a good enjoyable movie.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I think in time it will be considered Craig's Thunderball- flawed (as @Murdock said), yet terribly entertaining in the end.
  • TR007TR007
    Posts: 1,165
    Personally, the more I watch it the less I appreciate it. It's falls further from grace the more I watch it but that's not to say that the general outlook on the film will be the same.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,116
    Over time if SP or its obligatory sequel hasn't killed the franchise then yeah by then I think the shock will have worn off.

  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Hmm, it seems to polarise people. I would say those that like it (myself included here) will probably find it not as good on repeat viewings and those who don't will find it increasingly more enjoyable.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    In general I think that's probably true. Though I predict I will like it forever, I *could* foresee a slight drop in my rankings from #4.... the Blu Ray will tell.
  • mepal1mepal1
    Posts: 1,098
    Well from countries where the people's have been brought up on Bond SP was mostly liked, but from what i've read from people from countries like China and India, the reaction was that many people there didn't like SP at all. In fact at a Chinese BO forum, the film was considered to be terrible.
  • Crazysoul95Crazysoul95
    Posts: 3,336
    We will have to wait and see
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    mepal1 wrote: »
    from what i've read from people from countries like China and India, the reaction was that many people there didn't like SP at all. In fact at a Chinese BO forum, the film was considered to be terrible.
    I can see why- for a whole passel of reasons.

  • Suivez_ce_parachuteSuivez_ce_parachute
    Posts: 2,015
    mepal1 wrote: »
    In fact at a Chinese BO forum, the film was considered to be terrible.

    The South Korea BO of SP was spectacular. In a bad way. I'd be curious to hear some comments from someone there.


  • BondBugBondBug
    Posts: 158
    Due to a utterly ridiculous plot contrivance that could have been edited out by taking less than 30 seconds of the film, it will be remembered in the same way as Die Another Day.
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    Hyperbole much? SP doesn't have franchise killing absurdity and never "jumps the gigantic CGI tidal wave"
  • Suivez_ce_parachuteSuivez_ce_parachute
    Posts: 2,015
    I think the choice of SP photography, a bit like QOS' choice of edit, will make them look like product of their time. They may look dated quite fast. SF is much more a crowd-pleaser as far as the moviemaking process is concerned, some images could be from a Blu-Ray demo disc, and I think it will last longer.

    As for CR, I think the reputation "the movie that started it all" will preserve its reputation from going down. Even the next actor's first movie will be compared to CR, I think, and not SP or SF.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Less appreciated, IMO. Moves like establishing Blofeld's relationship with Bond etc. will probably make it the next Die Another Day. I find it average myself, but then again, like Spectre, DAD was released to mixed reviews back in 2002, and in just over a decade, the views have changed dramatically. That could well be the case for SP here.

    I find Spectre a decent Bond film and I hold it in higher regard than DAD, but the public seems less favourable towards it?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    It's too early to tell, which has been my view since before it came out.

    They made some decisions with this film that are either going to be seen as more impressive in time, or which will bury it quickly and embarrassingly.

    Time will tell. Give it 3 months after the blu ray comes out and we'll have a better idea. The reaction has been mixed to date, and most criticisms focus on the same issues (yellow screen, brother, average action, poor finale, implausible retcon of whole Craig era). So for it to improve and be seen as a classic, these things have to decline in importance to those who dislike them. I personally don't see that happening because we have such an outstanding back catalogue against which to compare, but again, only time will tell.
  • BondBugBondBug
    Posts: 158
    Aziz_Fekkesh wrote: »
    Hyperbole much? SP doesn't have franchise killing absurdity and never "jumps the gigantic CGI tidal wave"

    I loved Spectre, but I think it goes all Austin Powers with the Blofeld/Bond connection. It had some excellent moments and some that were so,so and lacking in imagination.

    "We don't really go in for that sort of thing anymore," says Q in Skyfall, in reply to a quip about exploding pens. Bond was a spy who was going to rely on his resourcefulness and ingenuity, not exploding pens - the whole thing about being given a gadget that would conveniently be needed by Bond was a thing of the past. What does Q give Bond in the next movie? An exploding watch. This marks a retrograde step after reaching a high.





  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    It's not going to get any better for Spectre over time. I suspect it will gradually lose appeal until it settles in the middle of the pack.
  • ChangChang
    Posts: 107
    I'm hoping Blofeld says in future movies that he was just playing with the stepbrother thing.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Chang wrote: »
    I'm hoping Blofeld says in future movies that he was just playing with the stepbrother thing.

    Well it's going to be a Craig specific narrative, so unless you're planning on DC sticking around for another 10 years I don't think you have to worry. The next incarnate will not follow this storyline.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    BondBug wrote: »
    Due to a utterly ridiculous plot contrivance that could have been edited out by taking less than 30 seconds of the film, it will be remembered in the same way as Die Another Day.
    This.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    RC7 wrote: »
    Chang wrote: »
    I'm hoping Blofeld says in future movies that he was just playing with the stepbrother thing.

    Well it's going to be a Craig specific narrative, so unless you're planning on DC sticking around for another 10 years I don't think you have to worry. The next incarnate will not follow this storyline.

    True, but it bothers me that Craig's quadrilogy could be perfect but it isn't only because of a ridicolous contrived coincidence.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Walecs wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Chang wrote: »
    I'm hoping Blofeld says in future movies that he was just playing with the stepbrother thing.

    Well it's going to be a Craig specific narrative, so unless you're planning on DC sticking around for another 10 years I don't think you have to worry. The next incarnate will not follow this storyline.

    True, but it bothers me that Craig's quadrilogy could be perfect but it isn't only because of a ridicolous contrived coincidence.
    Contrived? A little, The worst thing to ever happen in a Bond movie? no. It's a shame people are overreacting to the Brother line.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Over time Craig will be left with the same legacy as his predecessor. Starting of with a great movie and gradually getting worse movies. Craigs being sabotaged by Mendes and his lack of skill in really telling a story that makes sense of going for visual spectacle that lacks soul and humanity. If Craig does a 5th one I would hope it would be a dark thriller in which he has no personal stake but is a policeman with a license to kill. It would leave him with the swansong he deserves.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2015 Posts: 17,789
    chrisisall's thumbnail guide to the Craig Bond movies:

    Want that strong sense of Fleming updated? Watch CR.
    Want a lean, mean raw bolt of Bond? Watch QOS.
    Want an art Bond with angst & emotion? Watch SF.
    Want an entertaining throwback Bond with today's sensibilities? Watch SP.

    Somethin' for everyone here. :D
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,575
    I hope more
  • shamanimalshamanimal
    Posts: 623
    BondBug wrote: »
    "We don't really go in for that sort of thing anymore," says Q in Skyfall, in reply to a quip about exploding pens. Bond was a spy who was going to rely on his resourcefulness and ingenuity, not exploding pens - the whole thing about being given a gadget that would conveniently be needed by Bond was a thing of the past. What does Q give Bond in the next movie? An exploding watch. This marks a retrograde step after reaching a high.

    Sad day when we slag off a Bond film for utilising gadgets that save his life.

    Spectre rocks.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    shamanimal wrote: »

    Spectre rocks.
    Yes. The only thing that would have been better would have been if the watch had had a laser!
    (It's all about the lasers)
    :))
  • BondBugBondBug
    Posts: 158
    shamanimal wrote: »
    BondBug wrote: »
    "We don't really go in for that sort of thing anymore," says Q in Skyfall, in reply to a quip about exploding pens. Bond was a spy who was going to rely on his resourcefulness and ingenuity, not exploding pens - the whole thing about being given a gadget that would conveniently be needed by Bond was a thing of the past. What does Q give Bond in the next movie? An exploding watch. This marks a retrograde step after reaching a high.

    Sad day when we slag off a Bond film for utilising gadgets that save his life.

    Spectre rocks.

    I certainly would not slag off any Bond movie. I did say in my post that I loved Spectre that you did not quote. It was Q's words, not mine, that told the audience that Bond did not do the exploding gadgets any more. That was the direction the Craig movies had gone before Spectre.
  • BondBugBondBug
    Posts: 158
    Murdock wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Chang wrote: »
    I'm hoping Blofeld says in future movies that he was just playing with the stepbrother thing.

    Well it's going to be a Craig specific narrative, so unless you're planning on DC sticking around for another 10 years I don't think you have to worry. The next incarnate will not follow this storyline.

    True, but it bothers me that Craig's quadrilogy could be perfect but it isn't only because of a ridicolous contrived coincidence.
    Contrived? A little, The worst thing to ever happen in a Bond movie? no. It's a shame people are overreacting to the Brother line.

    More than a little contrived. Imagine if in the next Superman movie we learn that all along Lex Luthor was Clarke Kent's step brother, or the new Star Wars movie reveals that Darth Vader was really Hans Solo's real father. Maybe in the next Jason Bourne movie, we discover that the character played by David Strathairn is really Jason Bourne's father. These would all be the worst plotting decisions of any of the movies.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    BondBug wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Chang wrote: »
    I'm hoping Blofeld says in future movies that he was just playing with the stepbrother thing.

    Well it's going to be a Craig specific narrative, so unless you're planning on DC sticking around for another 10 years I don't think you have to worry. The next incarnate will not follow this storyline.

    True, but it bothers me that Craig's quadrilogy could be perfect but it isn't only because of a ridicolous contrived coincidence.
    Contrived? A little, The worst thing to ever happen in a Bond movie? no. It's a shame people are overreacting to the Brother line.

    More than a little contrived. Imagine if in the next Superman movie we learn that all along Lex Luthor was Clarke Kent's step brother, or the new Star Wars movie reveals that Darth Vader was really Hans Solo's real father. Maybe in the next Jason Bourne movie, we discover that the character played by David Strathairn is really Jason Bourne's father. These would all be the worst plotting decisions of any of the movies.

    Oh for crying out loud they WEREN'T stepbrothers, nor biological or foster brothers. They WEREN'T brothers at all. Blofeld clearly said, His father asked him to TREAT James like one. Not even close. Sheesh the exaggerated Hyperbole around here is starting to annoy me. Just enjoy the movie.
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