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Pierce and Daniel much more similar than we thought

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  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Awhile back someone on here gave links to all the reviews of the Bonds from the New York Times, it made for interesting reading how they were originally received - I think DAD got a positive review there too.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Views change. And I doubt sometime later Craig's films will be seen with supreme delight as they are now.
    You may be right on this. I think this will indeed be the case, especially if the new actor after him is any good. My view on his era has already changed a little for the worse of late.
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Now... In my personal opinion, I do like Daniel Craig's films and I do enjoy them heartily. But, there is no chance that his films, in my opinion, are more entertaining than Brosnan's era.
    I found Brosnan's entries (apart from that mess TWINE) to be very entertaining as well. I wouldn't say they are classic Bond films (by any stretch of the imagination) as much as entertaining action films featuring a character named James Bond. They are definitely fast paced and are a good time to spend a few carefree hrs without taxing one's brain too much. Just don't try to assess them critically or you'll likely pull your hair out.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Personally, I do enjoy Die Another Day a lot. And it would have been perfect had Bond escaped the North Korean prison. Seeing him get tortured in the main title sequence was a huge downer for me, seeing a childhood hero out there being treated like an object to wipe the floor with and getting ridiculed. That was the only big downer in the film for me. Other than that, I could live with the CGI waves and parachute surfing. Ridiculous but clever.

    Now, with Casino Royale, while it had a good plot, the second half of the film slowly went down the well a bit. For me: I insist on that. I loved how cocky and confident Bond was in the first half of the film, but when he started to change and become less the man he was in the first half, it kind of lost me there, personally. The ending scene with Mister White, though, I could say is one of the best scenes in the franchise. It gave me the goosebumps when the Bond Theme started to play.

    Quantum of Solace, while a bit disappointing for how it turned out (mainly cinematography/editing-wise), was an enjoyable action thriller. Bond on the run. But, I would have preferred if it was a revenge story rather than 007 going rogue, less drama, more theatrics.

    The subsequent film has my opinion in contrast to the majority of the Bond fans overall. And I might get a shoe in the face for saying this, but... It somehow destroyed the Craig era for me. I would have preferred if they were to go with the idea and storyline pitched by Peter Morgan, because it had that grit and realistic approach of the Casino Royale theme and standards. And it was original. Skyfall, for me (okay, I can hear the pistol hammers clicking over my head, now) is the least favourable Bond film of all time. (You can pull the trigger now).

    Spectre had its ups and downs. But, for all it was represented, with all of its flaws, I know it didn't take itself seriously, so I didn't either. And I did enjoy it. It's far from being perfect, but heck, it's definitely an entertaining piece in the Bond fabric.

    Again, these are my personal views on the recent era, and only applies to my very opinion. Not for the others.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Views change. And I doubt sometime later Craig's films will be seen with supreme delight as they are now.
    You may be right on this. I think this will indeed be the case, especially if the new actor after him is any good. My view on his era has already changed a little for the worse of late.
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Now... In my personal opinion, I do like Daniel Craig's films and I do enjoy them heartily. But, there is no chance that his films, in my opinion, are more entertaining than Brosnan's era.
    I found Brosnan's entries (apart from that mess TWINE) to be very entertaining as well. I wouldn't say they are classic Bond films (by any stretch of the imagination) as much as entertaining action films featuring a character named James Bond. They are definitely fast paced and are a good time to spend a few carefree hrs without taxing one's brain too much. Just don't try to assess them critically or you'll likely pull your hair out.
    I think you summed it all up perfectly there, my friend. :)
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Personally, I do enjoy Die Another Day a lot. And it would have been perfect had Bond escaped the North Korean prison. Seeing him get tortured in the main title sequence was a huge downer for me, seeing a childhood hero out there being treated like an object to wipe the floor with and getting ridiculed. That was the only big downer in the film for me. Other than that, I could live with the CGI waves and parachute surfing. Ridiculous but clever.

    Now, with Casino Royale, while it had a good plot, the second half of the film slowly went down the well a bit. For me: I insist on that. I loved how cocky and confident Bond was in the first half of the film, but when he started to change and become less the man he was in the first half, it kind of lost me there, personally. The ending scene with Mister White, though, I could say is one of the best scenes in the franchise. It gave me the goosebumps when the Bond Theme started to play.

    Quantum of Solace, while a bit disappointing for how it turned out (mainly cinematography/editing-wise), was an enjoyable action thriller. Bond on the run. But, I would have preferred if it was a revenge story rather than 007 going rogue, less drama, more theatrics.

    The subsequent film has my opinion in contrast to the majority of the Bond fans overall. And I might get a shoe in the face for saying this, but... It somehow destroyed the Craig era for me. I would have preferred if they were to go with the idea and storyline pitched by Peter Morgan, because it had that grit and realistic approach of the Casino Royale theme and standards. And it was original. Skyfall, for me (okay, I can hear the pistol hammers clicking over my head, now) is the least favourable Bond film of all time. (You can pull the trigger now).

    Spectre had its ups and downs. But, for all it was represented, with all of its flaws, I know it didn't take itself seriously, so I didn't either. And I did enjoy it. It's far from being perfect, but heck, it's definitely an entertaining piece in the Bond fabric.

    Again, these are my personal views on the recent era, and only applies to my very opinion. Not for the others.

    I enjoyed reading your views there. Personally the torture bit was one of the best bits of DAD for me. I see what your saying with CR. And I see what you're saying with SF, to a degree. I do agree that from Skyfall they have pulled the rug under their feet with their convictions with Craig's Bond. I knew what to expect with Spectre when Logan was brought on board and they were going to put more humour in it. I love Spectre, probably more than most on here, it gets quite a kicking. But as much as I love it, and I think part of why I like it is because it's going to more traditional Bond territory, it has kind of taken the wind out of the sails of where I thought, wanted and expected the Craig era to go.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Personally, I do enjoy Die Another Day a lot. And it would have been perfect had Bond escaped the North Korean prison. Seeing him get tortured in the main title sequence was a huge downer for me, seeing a childhood hero out there being treated like an object to wipe the floor with and getting ridiculed. That was the only big downer in the film for me. Other than that, I could live with the CGI waves and parachute surfing. Ridiculous but clever.

    Now, with Casino Royale, while it had a good plot, the second half of the film slowly went down the well a bit. For me: I insist on that. I loved how cocky and confident Bond was in the first half of the film, but when he started to change and become less the man he was in the first half, it kind of lost me there, personally. The ending scene with Mister White, though, I could say is one of the best scenes in the franchise. It gave me the goosebumps when the Bond Theme started to play.

    Quantum of Solace, while a bit disappointing for how it turned out (mainly cinematography/editing-wise), was an enjoyable action thriller. Bond on the run. But, I would have preferred if it was a revenge story rather than 007 going rogue, less drama, more theatrics.

    The subsequent film has my opinion in contrast to the majority of the Bond fans overall. And I might get a shoe in the face for saying this, but... It somehow destroyed the Craig era for me. I would have preferred if they were to go with the idea and storyline pitched by Peter Morgan, because it had that grit and realistic approach of the Casino Royale theme and standards. And it was original. Skyfall, for me (okay, I can hear the pistol hammers clicking over my head, now) is the least favourable Bond film of all time. (You can pull the trigger now).

    Spectre had its ups and downs. But, for all it was represented, with all of its flaws, I know it didn't take itself seriously, so I didn't either. And I did enjoy it. It's far from being perfect, but heck, it's definitely an entertaining piece in the Bond fabric.

    Again, these are my personal views on the recent era, and only applies to my very opinion. Not for the others.

    I enjoyed reading your views there. Personally the torture bit was one of the best bits of DAD for me. I see what your saying with CR. And I see what you're saying with SF, to a degree. I do agree that from Skyfall they have pulled the rug under their feet with their convictions with Craig's Bond. I knew what to expect with Spectre when Logan was brought on board and they were going to put more humour in it. I love Spectre, probably more than most on here, it gets quite a kicking. But as much as I love it, and I think part of why I like it is because it's going to more traditional Bond territory, it has kind of taken the wind out of the sails of where I thought, wanted and expected the Craig era to go.
    Exactly. That's what happened with Skyfall. It felt like Craig's Bond was a different Bond than the one we've seen in the first two films. It also differed a lot from its predecessors, and for the villain... and his motivation... it was quite weak... All that scandal and schemes just to assassinate M in the courtroom? Silva, while an amusing villain, was not enough of a Bond villain for me, either. They did the same thing, to an extent, with the new Blofeld. I just hope the Skyfall theme, which sounds and looks like a melodrama rather than a spy thriller, wouldn't continue into the territory of the next film. And I sure want Daniel Craig back for the next one, merge the themes of Classic Bond and the Casino Royale template into one.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Personally, I do enjoy Die Another Day a lot. And it would have been perfect had Bond escaped the North Korean prison. Seeing him get tortured in the main title sequence was a huge downer for me, seeing a childhood hero out there being treated like an object to wipe the floor with and getting ridiculed. That was the only big downer in the film for me. Other than that, I could live with the CGI waves and parachute surfing. Ridiculous but clever.

    Now, with Casino Royale, while it had a good plot, the second half of the film slowly went down the well a bit. For me: I insist on that. I loved how cocky and confident Bond was in the first half of the film, but when he started to change and become less the man he was in the first half, it kind of lost me there, personally. The ending scene with Mister White, though, I could say is one of the best scenes in the franchise. It gave me the goosebumps when the Bond Theme started to play.

    Quantum of Solace, while a bit disappointing for how it turned out (mainly cinematography/editing-wise), was an enjoyable action thriller. Bond on the run. But, I would have preferred if it was a revenge story rather than 007 going rogue, less drama, more theatrics.

    The subsequent film has my opinion in contrast to the majority of the Bond fans overall. And I might get a shoe in the face for saying this, but... It somehow destroyed the Craig era for me. I would have preferred if they were to go with the idea and storyline pitched by Peter Morgan, because it had that grit and realistic approach of the Casino Royale theme and standards. And it was original. Skyfall, for me (okay, I can hear the pistol hammers clicking over my head, now) is the least favourable Bond film of all time. (You can pull the trigger now).

    Spectre had its ups and downs. But, for all it was represented, with all of its flaws, I know it didn't take itself seriously, so I didn't either. And I did enjoy it. It's far from being perfect, but heck, it's definitely an entertaining piece in the Bond fabric.

    Again, these are my personal views on the recent era, and only applies to my very opinion. Not for the others.

    I enjoyed reading your views there. Personally the torture bit was one of the best bits of DAD for me. I see what your saying with CR. And I see what you're saying with SF, to a degree. I do agree that from Skyfall they have pulled the rug under their feet with their convictions with Craig's Bond. I knew what to expect with Spectre when Logan was brought on board and they were going to put more humour in it. I love Spectre, probably more than most on here, it gets quite a kicking. But as much as I love it, and I think part of why I like it is because it's going to more traditional Bond territory, it has kind of taken the wind out of the sails of where I thought, wanted and expected the Craig era to go.
    Exactly. That's what happened with Skyfall. It felt like Craig's Bond was a different Bond than the one we've seen in the first two films. It also differed a lot from its predecessors, and for the villain... and his motivation... it was quite weak... All that scandal and schemes just to assassinate M in the courtroom? Silva, while an amusing villain, was not enough of a Bond villain for me, either. They did the same thing, to an extent, with the new Blofeld. I just hope the Skyfall theme, which sounds and looks like a melodrama rather than a spy thriller, wouldn't continue into the territory of the next film. And I sure want Daniel Craig back for the next one, merge the themes of Classic Bond and the Casino Royale template into one.
    I can see where you're coming from re: SF. As I've said elsewhere, I found Bond a little redundant in SF to be honest. I related to the narrative of M/Silva however. The personal conflict between them was compelling for me, and I also found all the other characters (except Naomi's MP) to be very interesting and charismatic. So despite Bond's irrelevance to some extent (the role could have been filled by any number of other nameless protagonists) I enjoyed it very much just as a character study (of the others).

    I didn't relate all that much to the narrative in SP, and so, with the same Bond from SF (different from the CR/QoS one), all the flaws in the film just stuck out for me.

    That's why I've realized Mendes doesn't get Bond, and he must go. He was lucky because he had an interesting story to tell in SF, and it wasn't about Bond.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited January 2016 Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    I can see where you're coming from re: SF. As I've said elsewhere, I found Bond a little redundant in SF to be honest. I related to the narrative of M/Silva however. The personal conflict between them was compelling for me, and I also found all the other characters (except Naomi's MP) to be very interesting and charismatic. So despite Bond's irrelevance to some extent (the role could have been filled by any number of other nameless protagonists) I enjoyed it very much just as a character study (of the others).
    Well, I can't argue with that since perspectives and tastes differ. But, I do agree with Eve's character not providing satisfaction to the viewer at all. I still don't see her as Moneypenny, but I take it for what it is. I am not keen on Ben Whishaw's Q either. Apart from these, I loved Kincaid and Mallory. Good addition to the series and very good casting.
    bondjames wrote: »
    I didn't relate all that much to the narrative in SP, and so, with the same Bond from SF (different from the CR/QoS one), all the flaws in the film just stuck out for me.
    The story wasn't compelling for Spectre. Just like how one of the posters here stated in another thread, there were too many cooks in the kitchen it was just worn out. But, if you watch the film only for separate scenes, it's a lovable one. Spectre is that kind of a film. Combination of good scenes, even though somehow unrelated to one another, in one motion picture. Still... I enjoy it.
    bondjames wrote: »
    That's why I've realized Mendes doesn't get Bond, and he must go. He was lucky because he had an interesting story to tell in SF, and it wasn't about Bond.
    I wasn't keen personally on Mendes right from the beginning. As you say, he doesn't get Bond, at all. And very spot on with the final statement... A story that wasn't about Bond. He was just there caught in the middle of a crossfire that wasn't aimed at him. Funny, I felt the same with Devil May Care (the continuation Bond novel). I hope the producers do get the right choice with the crew on the next film.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Contemporary critics do rate Pierce Brosnan's films the lowest and Daniel Craig's films on par, if not surpassing, with Sean Connery's era. Not talking about personal opinion here. However, checking some of the 15 year old articles (or older), I've come across many articles and reviews who did show major appreciation towards Brosnan's films as well as one of them went to say that Tomorrow Never Dies alone is the best Bond film to date (as of late 1997, that is.)


    Its true most critics right don't the Brosnan films but like you said it wasn't aleays that way, i once read an old review for Die another day and it was praised for how big it was and said this is how Bond is suppoused to be.



    Views change. And I doubt sometime later Craig's films will be seen with supreme delight as they are now. Remember, back in the day people loved You Only Live Twice, but now it's not a favourite among the Bond fans, and overall combining fan opinions (both the appraisals and negativism), it's an average Bond film.


    I agree views change and what it was cool one day its not anymore or visceversa. Juts look a how Dalton and Lazenby have been appreciated recently.
    And you know what i think once Criag leaves the role Pierce will be apreciated again and Craig wont't be hatted but will be more divided all Bonds.
    Some will still love and some not so much its not a case of not being good or becoming bad the hype will just slow down a bitt


    Now... In my personal opinion, I do like Daniel Craig's films and I do enjoy them heartily. But, there is no chance that his films, in my opinion, are more entertaining than Brosnan's era. Call me a lunatic, insane or even an idiot if you like, but personally, Brosnan's films and the plots were good enough for me to enjoy Bond for what he has been in the cinematic universe. Over-the-top at times, extremely escapist but not ridiculous (mostly). That's me, however, speaking for myself. And not for the others.


    I love Pierce's and Craig film very much as well each one giving his own interpretetion of the character

    My favorite Bond eras are

    1962-72( Dr No till Diamonds are forever ) and 1995- 2015( from Goldeneye till Spectre)



  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    No Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton? Oh dear. :-O
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    No Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton? Oh dear. :-O


    I like Dalton very much but he just had two films and not a big fan of Roger Moore though i did love the spy who loved me and liked Moonraker and the man with the Golden gun
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Szonana wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    No Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton? Oh dear. :-O


    I like Dalton very much but he just had two films and not a big fan of Roger Moore though i did love the spy who loved me and liked Moonraker and the man with the Golden gun
    Yes, it's difficult to like Roger Moore these days... But, that said, he's my favourite Bond.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    No Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton? Oh dear. :-O


    I like Dalton very much but he just had two films and not a big fan of Roger Moore though i did love the spy who loved me and liked Moonraker and the man with the Golden gun
    Yes, it's difficult to like Roger Moore these days... But, that said, he's my favourite Bond.


    You spoke so nice about Pierce that now you make me feel horrible about not being a huge fan of Moore so i will say this Roger Moore may not be my favorite but he defnitley had a very distinctive style.

    His films are so him, those are films no one could have done expect him, maybe Lazenby but not as good as him.
    He made the Funny Slapstick bond a brand.

    Pierce Brosnan, Sean Connery and Daniel Craig had a good sense of humor but it was very diferent from Moore's sense of Humor, Moore's jokes were something he could only pull off.





  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    edited January 2016 Posts: 1,130
    Another similarity i should add but this one is a very personal one i rank their films just exactly the same way

    Pierce Brsonan

    The world is not enough
    Goldeneye
    Die another day
    Tomorrow never dies

    Daniel Craig

    Skyfall
    Casino Royale
    Spectre
    Quantum of Solace
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited January 2016 Posts: 11,139
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    "TWINE" is my favourite Brosnan-film. Full of acting subtleties and emotions.


    350x700px-LL-be7e439a_6dba5a59.jpeg

    ...yep =))
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,430
    Brilliant Doubleoego! I always found Brossas "acting" in that strangulation scene in TWINE to be unintentionally hilarious!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Bond jerking off every chance he gets.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Brilliant Doubleoego! I always found Brossas "acting" in that strangulation scene in TWINE to be unintentionally hilarious!

    The picture isn't even mine. Found it on Google and turns out it's from another member here on this site but it hammers home the point.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Sean - http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/26/16/2CC92B5B00000578-3250055-image-a-1_1443280413615.jpg

    Roger - http://www.bondmovies.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/moon.jpg

    Tim - http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BAxbHMWdr2I/UJ66-V8FcRI/AAAAAAAABog/FlYw2HZ4HM4/s1600/bond24.png

    :))
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    @Murdock awesome, bro. =))
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Oh I never forget a face. ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Murdock wrote: »
    Sean - http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/26/16/2CC92B5B00000578-3250055-image-a-1_1443280413615.jpg

    Roger - http://www.bondmovies.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/moon.jpg

    Tim - http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BAxbHMWdr2I/UJ66-V8FcRI/AAAAAAAABog/FlYw2HZ4HM4/s1600/bond24.png

    :))

    Like I said...
  • RC7RC7
    edited January 2016 Posts: 10,512
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Watch the '007 Quantum of Bonds Pierce Brosnan vs Daniel Craig' video on YT. Never fails to make me laugh.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    RC7 wrote: »

    =))
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Watch the '007 Quantum of Bonds Pierce Brosnan vs Daniel Craig' video on YT. Never fails to make me laugh.

    A link, for those too lazy to google:

    Oh goodness, both of those were hilarious. "Are you guys talking about me?"
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Soundofthesinners, "Get away from me, you smell like Old Spice!"
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Another one:
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Watching these mash-ups, anyone still think they are similat?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Watching these mash-ups, anyone still think they are similat?
    It's apparent in these fabricated combination scenes that DC brings a far more immediate energy, perceived strength, and vigour to all the action scenes, while PB looks cooler, and more refined, in a suit imho.

    That first casino one is a riot by the way.
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