The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • Hey, I'd forgotten about the anthrax letters, too -- I'd wager most of America has largely forgotten them, simply because we never got to point a finger of blame anywhere conclusively which means there's no emotional charge to be gained by reliving that particular story. And the 9/11 attack is what made Rudy famous, so that wasn't really a bad thing in his mind, right?

    (Sarcasm alert, folks. Black humor & all that. No offense intended. Alert over.)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited August 2016 Posts: 8,339
    @Scaramanga12 in regard to your reacion to my post a few pages back:
    As I said, it was a question to fathom your knowledge of political systems. I now understand this to be at beginner level.
    - If two parties are against one thing, it doesn't mean they are actually part of one party nor does it mean they can work together. The far left and far right often find themselves on the same side, even though they prefer to kill eachother.
    - Geert Wilders, like Trump, only shouting out what problems we (may) have, never coming up with solutions. 'Building a wall'is only a solution if you have an idea how you're going to do it. 'let Mexico pay for it' is another one. How will you do this? Ask the Mexicans politely? Wage war so they pay for it? How much would that cost? Wilders is in the same leage. Just becoming popular by coming up with exaggerated problems and non-existent solutions.

    @4Ever that Paul Manafort is really a Le Chiffre kind of guy. He'll work with anyone if the money is good (and he doesn't have to pay taxes). If that's one of the closest advisers of the future president of the US, you're properly f***ed as a nation.

    @bondjames I think the only reason Trump is hoarding his money, is bacause he's going to run with it. Save himself while his companies crash and burn.

    @chrisisall Trump politics:

  • Thank you for that moment of comparative sanity, @CommanderRoss!
  • Posts: 315
    Trump may be sitting on all this money because he;s paying himself and his companies as part of the campaign./In May, the biggest-ticket item was Trump’s use of the Mar-a-Lago Club, his Florida resort, which was paid $423,000. The campaign paid $350,000 to TAG Air for his private airplanes, $125,000 to Trump Restaurants and more than $170,000 to Trump Tower, the Manhattan skyscraper that houses the campaign’s headquarters. But it doesn't stop there because donations paid for use of the Trump jet($2 mill_) and helicopter($500K) and even the Trump Org.'s bodyguard($65K). Not to mention the family members are getting salaries.

    The Trump Org. 'loaned the Trump campaign' at least $20M early in the year and that was repaid in June when the smaller donations rolled in. Trump is even paying himself a salary to run for President. His liquid cash; is estimated to be down this year to around $175M and sold a significant amount of stock last year.

    When you follow the Trump money trail it doesn't leave his pocket.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,339
    Thank you for that moment of comparative sanity, @CommanderRoss!

    Well it's lonely at the top :-P

  • Posts: 11,119
    @Scaramanga12 in regard to your reacion to my post a few pages back:
    As I said, it was a question to fathom your knowledge of political systems. I now understand this to be at beginner level.
    - If two parties are against one thing, it doesn't mean they are actually part of one party nor does it mean they can work together. The far left and far right often find themselves on the same side, even though they prefer to kill eachother.
    - Geert Wilders, like Trump, only shouting out what problems we (may) have, never coming up with solutions. 'Building a wall'is only a solution if you have an idea how you're going to do it. 'let Mexico pay for it' is another one. How will you do this? Ask the Mexicans politely? Wage war so they pay for it? How much would that cost? Wilders is in the same leage. Just becoming popular by coming up with exaggerated problems and non-existent solutions.

    @4Ever that Paul Manafort is really a Le Chiffre kind of guy. He'll work with anyone if the money is good (and he doesn't have to pay taxes). If that's one of the closest advisers of the future president of the US, you're properly f***ed as a nation.

    @bondjames I think the only reason Trump is hoarding his money, is bacause he's going to run with it. Save himself while his companies crash and burn.

    @chrisisall Trump politics:


    Thanks for the comments @CommanderRoss.

    I do have a question for you. Do you think populism becomes another prime reason for the decline of Western supremacy? And how long, do you think, does it take before people start to realize that populism.....becomes the next best force in destroying Western supremacy? And with it all its welfare and prosperity?

    I am asking this, because right now I do believe that establishment politics is part of the problem of the decline of Western supremacy (think: Neo-liberal capitalism. Although I do think that ordinary people and normal workers have been part of this complex problem too, they could have empowered themselves in not signning expensive mortgage contracts or financial constructions to buy a car). But there comes a time when populism becomes part of governments...and then populism becomes 'establishment politics' too. Just look at Denmark.
  • Posts: 2,341
    As Trump continues to make a fool of himself and the process, Americans who love this country need to remember:
    This is not a done Deal
    Trump can still win.


    The Trumpster has rabid supporters who have no problem walking 5 miles in a snowstorm to cast their vote.

    Many true Clinton supporters won't do this. Now Sanders has just as rabid fans and that is why some experts said he could win head up with Trump but not necessarily Clinton.
    So long as women, Latinos, Blacks, and true progressives not stay home come election day then Trump will lose in a landslide...stay home and we risk losing everything:

    turning this country into what Germany was in the 1930's.
    Finishing touches on turning this into a Police State (we are well on our way)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Regarding Trump's campaign manager, Manafort, being on the written list found in Ukraine (describing illegal payments). No tangible proof of him actually receiving the monies, but still .... Manafort's longstanding connection to corruption in Russia (and elsewhere) is standing out. Anyway, here is this from a former U.S. ambassador to Russia.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Exactly, @OHMSS69. If we are complacent, we are being foolish. VOTE.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It would be easier to get people to vote if the choices didn't amount to a stab in the kidneys or a bullet through the heart.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Indeed, 0Brady. Tough choices for tough times; we cannot get around that. Not voting, however, is not a good answer.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,119
    Russia scares me. This country scares me to death. And on top of that, it seems that Erdogan and Putin have become erratic, yet big buddies. Make no mistake...there's a NATO base located in Turkey. And the NATO is bracing itself for the erratic behaviour of Erdogan. It places Turkey in a very powerful position on this planet. Russia loves that.

    So the big question for everyone in here would be: Shall we give Russia carte-blanche? Shall we make them, together with Turkey, China and Iran, more powerful then the USA? Do we let Russia dictate politics on this planet, and with it their ideas of how states should be governed?
  • Posts: 2,341
    For Russia the Cold War never ended. Their bullying of Ukraine is an outrage. I wonder if we should go in there like Britain, France and Turkey did in 1854 and teach Vladimir a lesson the way the allies taught old Nicholas I a lesson during the Crimea War?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Regarding the upcoming classified briefings to the two candidates:



    And it seems Trump will be briefed tomorrow.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2016 Posts: 12,480
    And perhaps you have seen one of the truly awful attack memes, ads, posters, etc. flying around regarding Hillary's health that the extreme Trump supporters (and indeed his own campaign) are pushing everywhere. I did not post the one I read because it was disgusting and obviously crossing a line. Here is a response from her personal doctor, though, which states clearly that the claims made on that were false, including somebody actually forged a letter from her which she never wrote. Do we expect her personal doctor to say anything less than this? No. But she also did not have to refute the fake letter that is going around, and at least she did that.

    And interesting to see many of the comments under this are trashing Hillary and the doctor. There is no let up to this crap.



    Old article on the blood clot she had back in 2012, from The Atlantic magazine
    http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/a-blood-clot-in-hillary-clintons-brain-how-it-can-turn-out-just-fine/266738/
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Trump just finished speaking in Wisconsin, with apparently a new speechwriter and using a teleprompter (maybe only 2nd time for him). He is trying to make a case that Hillary is: against the police, a bigot, and takes black voters for granted. This is not the same style as his usual off-the-cuff speeches. Definitely trying something a bit different. Not banging on about immigration much. Tailored this to the African American voters. But ... he is speaking to a large crowd which seems to include very few (indeed reporters are saying they cannot see any) African Americans in attendance.







    And this because, obviously, he has shown us time and again how tolerant he is himself:



  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Trump talking about trust is like Benedict Arnold preaching about loyalty.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Trump just finished speaking in Wisconsin, with apparently a new speechwriter and using a teleprompter (maybe only 2nd time for him). He is trying to make a case that Hillary is: against the police, a bigot, and takes black voters for granted. This is not the same style as his usual off-the-cuff speeches. Definitely trying something a bit different. Not banging on about immigration much. Tailored this to the African American voters. But ... he is speaking to a large crowd which seems to include very few (indeed reporters are saying they cannot see any) African Americans in attendance.







    And this because, obviously, he has shown us time and again how tolerant he is himself:



    I wonder if Trump realizes the irony in his attempt to do that.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    dalton wrote: »
    Trump just finished speaking in Wisconsin, with apparently a new speechwriter and using a teleprompter (maybe only 2nd time for him). He is trying to make a case that Hillary is: against the police, a bigot, and takes black voters for granted. This is not the same style as his usual off-the-cuff speeches. Definitely trying something a bit different. Not banging on about immigration much. Tailored this to the African American voters. But ... he is speaking to a large crowd which seems to include very few (indeed reporters are saying they cannot see any) African Americans in attendance.







    And this because, obviously, he has shown us time and again how tolerant he is himself:



    I wonder if Trump realizes the irony in his attempt to do that.

    @dalton, or his use of a teleprompter in the political arena, an act that you'd believe he equates to drowning a baby in the tub, going off past remarks.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I've never understood that criticism. I'd much rather watch someone deliver a speech with the help of a prompter than watch Trump freestyling his way through a rally any day.

    I suppose he slams the teleprompter because it's yet another way to slam Obama, as though he were the first president to ever use one. I don't much care for Obama either, but give the man credit where credit is due. He's an excellent speaker, and I've never understood the criticisms where people like Trump try to take that from him when it's so blatantly obvious that it's not the case.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2016 Posts: 12,480
    So now Manafort is NOT fired but simply reshuffled. Nice. Since he has all those ties to corruption in Russia and elsewhere. Keep him on, by all means. He is safe now since Trump has brought in two new people to "manage" his campaign. We can forget about Manafort now; this step obviously solves everything.


    Here is info on the new guy just brought in. Icing on the Trump take no prisoners approach cake. Info on him from last Oct.

    Peachy. Here is a taste of new campaign manager:
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,339
    @Scaramanga12 in regard to your reacion to my post a few pages back:
    As I said, it was a question to fathom your knowledge of political systems. I now understand this to be at beginner level.
    - If two parties are against one thing, it doesn't mean they are actually part of one party nor does it mean they can work together. The far left and far right often find themselves on the same side, even though they prefer to kill eachother.
    - Geert Wilders, like Trump, only shouting out what problems we (may) have, never coming up with solutions. 'Building a wall'is only a solution if you have an idea how you're going to do it. 'let Mexico pay for it' is another one. How will you do this? Ask the Mexicans politely? Wage war so they pay for it? How much would that cost? Wilders is in the same leage. Just becoming popular by coming up with exaggerated problems and non-existent solutions.

    @4Ever that Paul Manafort is really a Le Chiffre kind of guy. He'll work with anyone if the money is good (and he doesn't have to pay taxes). If that's one of the closest advisers of the future president of the US, you're properly f***ed as a nation.

    @bondjames I think the only reason Trump is hoarding his money, is bacause he's going to run with it. Save himself while his companies crash and burn.

    @chrisisall Trump politics:


    Thanks for the comments @CommanderRoss.

    I do have a question for you. Do you think populism becomes another prime reason for the decline of Western supremacy? And how long, do you think, does it take before people start to realize that populism.....becomes the next best force in destroying Western supremacy? And with it all its welfare and prosperity?

    I am asking this, because right now I do believe that establishment politics is part of the problem of the decline of Western supremacy (think: Neo-liberal capitalism. Although I do think that ordinary people and normal workers have been part of this complex problem too, they could have empowered themselves in not signning expensive mortgage contracts or financial constructions to buy a car). But there comes a time when populism becomes part of governments...and then populism becomes 'establishment politics' too. Just look at Denmark.

    First of all I don't believe in Western supremacy as something to hang on to, I think that's a very twentieth-century way of thinking. I welcome any nation with humanitarian and enlightened leaders to join in to the 'governing'of this little blue ball out in space.

    Populism taps into this old-fashioned way of thinking. So it will be a step backward. And if the general public steps back many bad things can happen. At the same time I don't believe the general public will step back. I do think that on average sanity will prevail. The few times it didn't in the past it was pushed over. The NAZI party was the biggest in it's day, but sure didn't have the majority of votes. They needed a coup for that.

    I'm not afraid of Putin. I think he's a very intelligent, stable dictator trying to get back the influence Russia had when she was still the USSR. I think the West has had an overreaction which seems rather cold-war-esque, triggering exactly the same kind of reaction in the Kremlin.
    The Ukraine and Crimea problem is something we just don't understand. I've been talking to a Ukrainian who's father is pro-Russia, and who's mother is pro-EU. They live in Odessa. It just isn't as cut-and-dry as our Western media suggest. At the same time, due to the tensions rape and murder happen there every day, even to the extend that the Ukrainian media don't report on it anymore.

    Erdogan, on the other hand, is a Hitler-impersonator, as I stated before. The man is a power-maniac willing to eradicate all his opposition (Kurds are his main target, now he's going after the Gulun movement as well).

    Neo-liberalism has been a way of implementing mideaval pracftises into a modern world. It was foolish, stupid and thanks to the neo-liberal advisers coming from the US and their Always-drunk victim called Yeltsin, then president of Russia, the country went down the drain, giving Putin his opportunity to play Tszar.

    All this proves that whatever your political choices are now, they will have a long-lasting effect in the future. So one has to be very careful.

    Populism is far from beeing careful, which means a populist leader is bound to create chaos in the long run.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    It appears that the final stage of the Trump campaign is being rolled out. Kellyanne Conway is the new Manager and Breitbart's Steve Bannon is the new CEO. Manafort stays as Chairman. There are also rumours that Roger Ailes is advising Trump on debate prep (unconfirmed).

    Manafort's role was to bring home the delegates and arrange the convention. Both done. The last two weeks have been soaking up the pressure while the attack dogs did their job (which was telegraphed prior to it happening by Bloomberg's Mark Halperin, who said on Morning Joe right after the convention that the Clinton team was hoping to put this away in the next two weeks). Did they succeed? It may appear so based on current poll data, but I doubt it.

    The makeup of this new team suggests to me that Trump also has one eye on his post-election role, should he lose. Ailes (if there is a connection) and Bannon suggest he is positioning for something, which could be a tv channel or show, as I speculated a few weeks back. Those thinking he will just go away if he loses are wrong.

    The first major 'network ad buy' was announced yesterday, and that coincided with major prime tv coverage of his speech. This stuff is pretty easy to read, if you know what to look for.

    PS: Russia has just started conducting airstrikes on ISIS positions in Syria from Iran. This is the first time they've done that. The Turkey/Russia relationship has been mended (and Erdogan is stronger than ever thanks to the failed coup attempt that we will really never know who was behind) and Iran is firmly in Putin's corner. Advantage: Putin

    @CommanderRoss, I agree with you on Ukraine. The coverage has been a disgrace and doesn't reflect the variety of opinions on the ground in that country.
  • Posts: 15,234
    Well so far the latest developments of the Trump campaign are not exactly carefully staged strategy, more like improvised decisions triggered by disastrous weeks. I fail to see the intelligence behind it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Well so far the latest developments of the Trump campaign are not exactly carefully staged strategy, more like improvised decisions triggered by disastrous weeks. I fail to see the intelligence behind it.
    Well, that is certainly what we're being told to believe, and it's one way to look at things.

    It's rather coincidental to me that it is occurring just as the home stretch begins, which is after Labour Day. It's also coincidental that the first major prime time speech post-Convention was shown on the day the network 'ad buy' was announced. Trump starts to receive security briefings now as well, and he is attending with Flynn and Christie.

    Anyone who really believes that Manafort was going to run the campaign into the finish line needs to reassess their thinking. That was never his expertise nor was it his role. His role was to bring in the delegates (during the contentious Cruz fight) and deliver the Convention as well as play defense with the Insiders. He will still do that last part.

    The campaign begins after Labour Day, or slightly before, which is pretty much where we are now.
  • Posts: 15,234
    What we are told to believe? By who? Is there evidence to believe anything else?

    Campaigns start when the candidate is nominated and even before. During that whole process Trump has presented himself as a bloated, stupid narcissist. He might still win but it's getting more and more unlikely. Unless Hillary Clinton stumbles epically or there's a massive scandal uncovered about her I don't see it happening. She'll need to be worse than Trump pictures her.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What we are told to believe? By who?
    I'm sorry, but that is what I saw on two networks early this morning. That's who.
    ----

    Phase 1 was winning the primaries. That was Lewandowski.

    As soon as that was wrapped up the next phase was delegate retention and ensuring a smooth (relatively speaking given what was predicted to happen with the never Trumpites) convention, as well as Washington inside ball. Also soaking up pressure during the 'dead summer months of the Olympics' while they built their campaign operation. That was Manafort.

    Now they are in the final stretch of trying to win an election. That is Conway and Bannon (with assists from potentially Ailes and Manafort).

    Different skills for different stages of the campaign.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    What we are told to believe? By who?
    I'm sorry, but that is what I saw on two networks early this morning. That's who.
    ----

    Phase 1 was winning the primaries. That was Lewandowski.

    As soon as that was wrapped up the next phase was delegate retention and ensuring a smooth (relatively speaking given what was predicted to happen with the never Trumpites) convention, as well as Washington inside ball. Also soaking up pressure during the 'dead summer months of the Olympics' while they built their campaign operation. That was Manafort.

    Now they are in the final stretch of trying to win an election. That is Conway and Bannon.

    Different skills for different stages of the campaign.

    If you think this campaign manager reshuffle was all part of a giant big strategy, then you are deluded really. You forget to mention that, like Lewandowski before him, Manafort also became a negative assett to the campaign. By all accounts, his relationship with Trump has soured badly, primarily because of their differing ideas about what a campaign should look like and how a presidential candidate should behave. His involvement in pro-Russian enterprises is another blow if you ask me.

    Regarding the prime-advantage for Putin on the world stage? I agree with you. And you could have responded to that I was making the similar worrysome about a 'merger' of nations like Russia, Turkey, Iran, China as a big dictating world power.

    Now the big question to you: Do you think that's good or bad?

    Alas, you'll probably never answer my questions. Because you refuse to admit your 'political color'. You keep being wishy-washy about policies and solutions. You just observe and twist things, so that Trump's campaign looks like one of the biggest succesful TV programs ever. All that could be true, but again, you simply refuse to say if you think it's good or bad for politics.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I somehow feel detached from this world. The Turks are rallying behind a Hitler impersonator (yes, that's right GG, this is a Godwin. But he's been actively killing Kurds for a long time now, so he's closer to one AH then anyone before), millions of people are fleeing war zones where a FU group of human-hating creatures are actively creating hell, millions of people join these refugees for a better life and risking not just everything they have but their lifes too, The EU is falling apart and instead of trying to listen to it's people this bureacratic monster is even more detached from the world, still wanting to make a deal with this Hitler-impersonator, and the last beacon we had of Western 'civilisation' has an ogre running for President and a presidential race that's so far below par it's even hard to see what's going on..

    And the 21st century is only in it's second decade. Thirty years ago we all thought by now we'd heve shuttle transport between here and the moon and we'd be setting foot on Mars. This is one of those 'what the hell happened'moments in history.

    I share your sentiment completely @CommanderRoss. But it's only logical. 'The West' as we know it is rapidly loosing power on this planet and with it prosperity and welfare. The first people who feel this are the people who are forced out of middle class situations. And we know what people usually see that first. On top of that, despite all the hate on other continents about 'The West', many poor people on those continents still realize that 'The West' could give them the best possible future. Hence the insane and uncontrollable immigration crisis. Make no mistake, I see this as simple natural redistribution of wealth. If you want it or not, new powers come...and go. And with it growth in population.

    I have been saying this for years. And it saddens me when I think about it. But I'm afraid there's not much you can do about it. Even the Trump's and Wilders' will become disappointed if they have governed our nations for four years.

    Hey @CommanderRoss, still curious what you think of this.
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