The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • Posts: 11,119
    Just read this interview/conf.call-style article with 5 Trump Biographers and Politico's Susan Glasser & Michael Kruse. I read it yesterday in the train from work to home. And....it got me scared:

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/donald-trump-2016-biographers-214350
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    @Thunderfinger, the U.S. is in Turkey (for years) and also throughout the Middle East. I don't know what is suspiciously bad about this issue of U.S. Army Toyota trucks being there. I'd appreciate you just spelling it out for me, because I am not following you.

    If you are saying ISIS has gotten hold of U.S. vehicles and equipment, that may be true. But I have not studied this aspect at all, and I don't feel this is suspicious of something horrendous ... but obviously, you feel it means something horrible. So please just take me through your reasoning a bit. Thanks.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I am not scared yet, Gustav. Just dismayed. Embarrassed for my country. Concerned, yes.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    @Thunderfinger, the U.S. is in Turkey (for years) and also throughout the Middle East. I don't know what is suspiciously bad about this issue of U.S. Army Toyota trucks being there. I'd appreciate you just spelling it out for me, because I am not following you.

    If you are saying ISIS has gotten hold of U.S. vehicles and equipment, that may be true. But I have not studied this aspect at all, and I don't feel this is suspicious of something horrendous ... but obviously, you feel it means something horrible. So please just take me through your reasoning a bit. Thanks.

    Hundreds of those trucks rolling out of Turkey into Syria with IS warriors. Not suspicious?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    OK I'm home now. Look, I will try to do some reading up, studying, homework ... whatever you want to call it. I will. Hopefully by the end of this weekend.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Benny wrote: »
    318 million people, and this is the best you can come up with...really.

    Looking forward to when this circus is over.


    Trump__Clinton.jpg

    Exactly. It's like a reality tv show... a really bad one.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 11,119
    With a nuance.......and actually a difference that has become more clearer after the 2nd debate:

    Despite Hillary's flaws, people in here should check out what great stuff she did as a public servant in the 1960's and 1970's. From helping children with disabilities as a lawyer to prosecuting the Watergate criminals. From being an effective president of the student board of Yale University, giving a voice to minorities, to actually getting health care laws passed for children.

    That's a big contrast when compared with Donald Trump's business credentials.

    Yes, Hillary is not a 'great communicater' and 'passionate empath' like Barack Obama, JFK and the late Ronald Reagan. But some people in here should give Mrs Clinton a bit more credit really.
  • Posts: 7,507
    "Hillary's flaws"...

    Well, are there really that many of them guys? She has been heavily investigated on several occations as a result of a Republican campaign to damage her name. They have so far found absolutely no evidence of any illegal wrong doings, and it is certainly not for lack of trying... The campaign against her stems more from an intense wish that she is crooked, not actual evidence. Her villainious, devilish misdeeds so far amount to being careless with an email account and heading a charitable organisation open for donations. You can say that's bad enough, but when people try to drag her down to the level of a notorious lier who has based his campaign on hate speech and fascist doctrines (I'll stop there although I could go on...) I can't help feeling its unfair. She is by no means a dream candidate, but compared to her adversary... she looks like an angel to me...
  • Posts: 11,119
    I'm curious what @BondJames 's articulate response would be to these clear....good traits of Mrs Clinton :-).

  • Thunderfinger: Thanks for the link to the ABC News report -- but all it proves is that ISIS has an eye for quality automobiles. I've been a dedicated Toyota driver for decades now. It doesn't mean I'm working for ISIS, or the US government, or any Australian, Turkish, or Russian interests.


    How all those cars got there is of no interest? They were driving there through a protected corridor out of NATO country Turkey.

    I didn't say the situation was of no interest, I said there's nothing proven. There are a lot of different ways the cars could have ended up in Isis' hands. The link you provided says nothing at all about a "protected corridor out of Turkey." You seem to want to assume the worst of Western interests and our allies at all times. I want to assume nothing, because I know what happens when you assume.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I'm curious what @BondJames 's articulate response would be to these clear....good traits of Mrs Clinton :-).
    I would appreciate it if you wouldn't call attention to my manner of communication in every post. You've made your point, and now I notice another member here seems to be making a point of it. I mean, how am I supposed to communicate? Like you?

    Regarding the article: I have never said Clinton was a bad person. Obviously she has good characteristics after a lifetime in public service. Her commitment to children is well known and is to be commended. Having said that, I would have preferred if the Post had also provided a balanced article on Trump rather than denigrating him at the bottom of the article and then providing a series of links to further incendiary articles below that.

    My issues with Clinton have to do with trust. I don't trust her. I don't like the secretive nature that she projects and don't think that will be good for the country. She appears to have little ability to connect as a leader and to inspire, and consequently in order to win elections she has to demonize. The country requires inspiration at the moment. I'm afraid I've seen no evidence that she can provide that. Her 'deplorables' comment was precisely what I expected from her. No surprises there. Additionally, I don't trust her judgement, and particularly on foreign policy where I think she is beholden to special interests.

    The way in which she has won (because I think she probably has won on account of the groping allegations) this election and the nature of her campaign will result in an even more divided country. One with a large portion of the population seriously disliking her, and deservedly so.

    As I said on the Brexit thread, the way to win against a grass roots protest 'movement' is with ideas. Trump has identified several issues with the status quo and matters that require serious consideration and revamping. He has inspired several people due to his identification of those issues and his willingness to talk about them openly (despite not having adequate or detailed solutions to many of these issues). The fact that these important matters have not been addressed appropriately by the other side during this election is a serious mistake in my view.

    The whole general election campaign has been about demonizing the messenger. One can certainly win an election in that way (and especially against as evidently flawed a messenger as Trump), but one will not be able to unite a country or be able to effectively govern after that.

    The wounds will be very deep after this one is over and the prospects are bleak. The only galvanizing force will be conflict. An outside conflict no less. That is my expectation.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 6,601
    Yeah, we in Europe have to deal with the demons, the US forced on us. You go and vote for your war trumpet. Its us, who will have the fun. Your country wants one more time solve its financial problems with bringing war to other countries. Hurrah!!! Well done.

    BTW Jason - are you even in here? If so, go listen to Dr. Daniele Ganser. He is Swiss and has a lot of informative stuff about Syria, for example. Or anybody else, who understands German. There are others, of course, who see behind the curtains, which here, obviously, very few can. Or WANT to.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    I'm curious what @BondJames 's articulate response would be to these clear....good traits of Mrs Clinton :-).
    I would appreciate it if you wouldn't call attention to my manner of communication in every post.

    What -- you're objecting because Gustav calls you articulate? C'mon!

    BTW: Hillary hasn't won yet. I'm taking nothing for granted. But you really ought not fault Hillary for the tone of this campaign. The Donald started the campaign from his very first announcement on a message of hatred and fear, not issues. His arguments against nominating any of his rivals were based on insults and ridicule. Bernie and Hillary waged their campaigns on a higher plane than that of the Republicans. Hillary's beating Donald on his own level now because that's the only place he exists.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm curious what @BondJames 's articulate response would be to these clear....good traits of Mrs Clinton :-).
    I would appreciate it if you wouldn't call attention to my manner of communication in every post.

    What -- you're objecting because Gustav calls you articulate? C'mon!

    BTW: Hillary hasn't won yet. I'm taking nothing for granted. But you really ought not fault Hillary for the tone of this campaign. The Donald started the campaign from his very first announcement on a message of hatred and fear, not issues. His arguments against nominating any of his rivals were based on insults and ridicule. Bernie and Hillary waged their campaigns on a higher plane than that of the Republicans. Hillary's beating Donald on his own level now because that's the only place he exists.
    Most of his arguments were on the issues. His communication style was insulting and bombastic as he drew attention to these issues to be heard. I fully agree with his prescriptions for border security and immigration vetting from hot spots for instance, which was always where he was going to end up (Start at an extreme position and move to a more palatable one).

    The personal nonsense really shouldn't have been brought up at this time. I didn't agree with it when Bill was in office and I don't like it now. It's the issues facing the country that matter, and one's opinion on those.

    She's probably got this won, but not on her merits in my opinion. He will do better than the polls are showing though.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Hillary demonised Trump?? Give me a break! He has demonised himself! Criticizing him and his followers is the easiest thing. You don't really need to attack him at all, you just need to in a factly manner mention what he has said and done over the last years. The Republican primaries was a bloodbath of horrific proportions with accusations flying everywhere mainly thanks to Trump. The attacks he's thrown at Clinton are even worse. She is a criminal, the co founder of ISIS, the devil, has "tremendous amounts of hatred in her heart". And yet Hillary is somehow to blame for the abysmal nature of the election??

    You can't trust her judgement, but your were willing to trust a vicious narcissist who constantly contradicts himself, overtly lies about his own statements and previously expressed opinions, lies about his own wealth and financial achievements, brags about finding loopholes in the law to evade taxes, villifies and downgrades people for their ethinicity, faith or sex and treats the middle east as if it was board game??

    "He has identified problems". Yeah, well give him a medal! Yet he offered no solutions and blamed everything on his political adversaries. Yeah, it all makes sense doesn't it... 8-}
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2016 Posts: 23,883
    He'll be off running a tv network, forming a 3rd party, or back to running Trump Organization shortly.

    We'll need a new enemy to lambast then. I'm sure we know who it is already (some of us do anyway). It's been clearly telegraphed since the conventions (just prior to the start of the general election campaign), when it was first dropped by Robby Mook.

    When it's all said and done, Obama definitely deserves his peace prize for keeping the dogs at bay since 2013 (when he was given a face saving way out by someone). He'll be gone shortly though and that's when it gets interesting.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited October 2016 Posts: 4,585
    Trump and Bond connection?

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/donald-trump-2016-biographers-214350
    bondjames wrote: »
    He'll be off running a tv network, forming a 3rd party, or back to running Trump Organization shortly.

    We'll need a new enemy to lambast then. I'm sure we know who it is already (some of us do anyway). It's been clearly telegraphed since the conventions (just prior to the start of the general election campaign), when it was first dropped by Robby Mook.

    When it's all said and done, Obama definitely deserves his peace prize for keeping the dogs at bay since 2013 (when he was given a face saving way out by someone). He'll be gone shortly though and that's when it gets interesting.

    It is going to be a rough road for HRC. She likely won't get more than 50% of the popular vote. It is also likely that Rs will maintain control of both houses of congress. This means that the Rs will take the stance that they, more so than HRC, have the will of the American people, and there will be more gridlock. I wouldn't expect the SCOTUS seat to be filled any time soon. I also fully expect articles of impeachment to be introduced in the first six months of her term. The Senate votes won't be there, but the House will no doubt go through with this to embarrass her publicly.

    Yes, it's going to get interesting.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    How Trump still has passionate support is beyond me.

    From jump, his failures and problems have been clear. This is a man whose successes can heavily be connected to the myth that was perpetuated by his ghost writers over the period of his career in business, and that's why you see biographers coming out of the woodwork now with guilt in their hearts because they were so instrumental in building him up to be what he really isn't.

    Everything is phony about him. The "small" loan of 3.5 million dollars his daddy gave him wasn't even legal. His persona was all crafted on a reality show when cameras and dramatic editing and music built up this image of an intimidating and resourceful man, until the director yelled cut and the real man revealed himself. His Trump foundation uses untold money from public donations to buy Donald things for himself, and he never uses any of the things he purchases for himself (like paintings and signed items) to bring any kind of charity to anyone. Throw in his disgusting actions around women (well supported) that he felt he could do because he was rich and famous, and the fact that in a presidential line up of great raconteurs like Lincoln, Kennedy, Roosevelt and FDR, he speaks with about as much eloquence as a kindergarten kid with dyslexia and a lisp, and you've got one garbage candidate.

    Hillary isn't an angel, but by Christ she's eons better than this insufferable and delusional twat.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    How Trump still has passionate support is beyond me.

    From jump, his failures and problems have been clear. This is a man whose successes can heavily be connected to the myth that was perpetuated by his ghost writers over the period of his career in business, and that's why you see biographers coming out of the woodwork now with guilt in their hearts because they were so instrumental in building him up to be what he really isn't.

    Everything is phony about him. The "small" loan of 3.5 million dollars his daddy gave him wasn't even legal. His persona was all crafted on a reality show when cameras and dramatic editing and music built up this image of an intimidating and resourceful man, until the director yelled cut and the real man revealed himself. His Trump foundation uses untold money from public donations to buy Donald things for himself, and he never uses any of the things he purchases for himself (like paintings and signed items) to bring any kind of charity to anyone. Throw in his disgusting actions around women (well supported) that he felt he could do because he was rich and famous, and the fact that in a presidential line up of great raconteurs like Lincoln, Kennedy, Roosevelt and FDR, he speaks with about as much eloquence as a kindergarten kid with dyslexia and a lisp, and you've got one garbage candidate.

    Hillary isn't an angel, but by Christ she's eons better than this insufferable and delusional twat.

    Well, tbh, when HRC talked about "half of them" being a bucket of deplorables, she was right. They are. So if Trump had 38% of the vote right now, then we can safely say that 19% of the general population falls in line with the "isms"...white supremicism, facsism, racism, sexism, isolationism (to the extreme), and many others.

    The other 19% are made up of HRC haters and, to an extent, people who want to see the political system blown to hell. They support trump BECAUSE of his bombastic style, not despite it. Some of my closest friends, some with PhDs and some women, are voting for Trump because they view him as a negative and government as a negative, and therefore believe something positive will come out of it (to go back to old math lessons).
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @TripAces, I also think Hillary's math isn't far off there. Deplorable is a great word (yes, maybe even the best word, Don) to describe that half percentage of supporters.

    I'm watching a Trump rally in Florida now, and as he's throwing these people lies, to which they cheer, I wish in my heart of hearts that they were all sterile, so they would be unable to pass on their genes and relative ignorance to their poor offspring.

    As for people who are voting for Trump to ride him like a car bomb into the presidential office on some mission of "we'll blow it up, burn it down and rebuild again," well, they are fools. Destroying infrastructure instead of fixing what is broken is beyond infantile and displays just how out of touch with critical thinking that so many of these people are.

    This is why our founding fathers were hesitant to give the American people the right to vote. For this shit right here.
  • Posts: 7,653
    What is surprising to me how anybody can vote for a candidate who said on tv that if he became president he would make sure to get Hillary Clinton jailed. Somebody who actually leveled the US democracy to the level of a banana republic.

    Even republicans muts be horrified by the mans sense of democracy and his view on other humans who are not Trump. Hillary might not be the best choice but she was still the woman behind the man whose presidency did more good than bad for the American way of life and economy.

    To pass the "you go to jail" comment of as a joke and accepting that says something about the kind of democracy you like. Horrific if people are defending this.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 4,617
    I think it's interesting to consider how Trump will handle himself after he losses. I can imagine all the toys going out of the pram with more delusional conspiracy theories and perhaps encouraging his core fans to rebel in some way against "the system",
    he is going to be one very very loose cannon !
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    SaintMark wrote: »
    What is surprising to me how anybody can vote for a candidate who said on tv that if he became president he would make sure to get Hillary Clinton jailed. Somebody who actually leveled the US democracy to the level of a banana republic.

    Even republicans muts be horrified by the mans sense of democracy and his view on other humans who are not Trump. Hillary might not be the best choice but she was still the woman behind the man whose presidency did more good than bad for the American way of life and economy.

    To pass the "you go to jail" comment of as a joke and accepting that says something about the kind of democracy you like. Horrific if people are defending this.

    Absolutely, @SaintMark. In his incessant ramblings and claims and promises of what he wants to do once he's president (most of which would go against our constitution), you really see the danger in what he poses. He's not dangerous like a smart man with all the resources of the higher office would be. The danger he possesses is more comparable to giving a five year old a machine gun.
    patb wrote: »
    I think it's interesting to consider how Trump will handle himself after he losses. I can imagine all the toys going out of the pram with more delusional conspiracy theories and perhaps encouraging his core fans to rebel in some way against "the system",
    he is going to be one very very loose cannon !

    @patb, I am fascinated to see what comes of this as well. According to Donald circa the first debate, if he loses he said he'd support Hillary, which we all know is a crock of shit, make no mistake.

    Here is how I see Trump really reacting to his loss:

    1.) He will blame Crooked Hillary and her liberal media stooges for manipulating the race, supporting her and vilifying him to voters.

    2.) With anger he will verbally destroy all the women who've come out against him for touching them sexually or making them uncomfortable, calling them liars, losers or fame hounds. He may sue many outlets or these women for libel/defamation.

    3.) He may go further to blame the Republican "establishment" for turning on him and being cowards when he needed them most, instead of joining him on the road to the White House and securing his victory.

    4.) He'll deride with disgust the dirty, low-hitting nature of the election-despite the fact that he was the only one who consistently ran a campaign based on hate, bully tactics and ad hominem attacks-and how it was only his strength (and implied big penis) that was able to get him and his family through the muckraking.

    5.) He may go even more delusional and claim that trickery was being performed at the voting booths of major swing states and battlegrounds on election day, and that his defeat wasn't an honest one, but instead a well orchestrated scheme against his campaign by those at the voting booths, paid off by Hillary, most likely.

    6.) And of course, it wouldn't be Trump if he didn't take credit for a boatload of things that he has no right to. I think he will address his supporters and say that they created something beautiful together, and that the movement he and he alone began against a corrupt and broken government won't die because of Crooked Hillary's victory. Their work will continue and blah, blah, blah.

    7.) In between all these rants, he'll verbally masturbate about how successful he is, how great his supporters have been to him, how much of a man he is, how much of a shake-up he was able to orchestrate in politics, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.


    The real pain is that this thing won't end when election day comes. We'll have to sit through at least a month or two of analysis about this garbage even after Hillary wins, and listen to Trump discount everyone but himself for making him lose this thing. We all think he's already been a petulant, insufferable child from jump, but until November comes, we ain't seen nothin' yet.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited October 2016 Posts: 28,694
    Sadly, @Murdock, I do believe it. Nothing could surprise me anymore.

    As we speak, a new species of 'stupid' is being created:



    The chances are high that this woman has at least one kid. Let that just sink in for a moment...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801

    As we speak, a new species of 'stupid' is being created:



    The chances are high that this woman has at least one kid. Let that just sink in for a moment...
    Regressive-ism is the new black.
    Or something...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote: »

    As we speak, a new species of 'stupid' is being created:



    The chances are high that this woman has at least one kid. Let that just sink in for a moment...
    Regressive-ism is the new black.
    Or something...

    Susan B. Anthony is disrupting her grave, she's been rolling so hard.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2016 Posts: 12,480
    It will keep going down into the sewer on Trump's end, I'm afraid.

    Anyway, here is one person's letter or response to the GOP members who are still supporting Trump:
  • Posts: 1,314
    I think this, along with Brexit, has just informed me that most people don't want to be told what to do or what to think, or are not prepared to change their minds. They have preconceived ideas and agendas and just look for a mouthpiece to clamour behind.

    Trump could do anything and a large percentage of his followers would be unmoved.

    Really we just need statesmanlike politicians who behave like human beings.
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