The Next American President Thread (2016)

1163164166168169198

Comments

  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,327
    Four years ago in the very similar topic, leading to the elections between Romney and Obama......atmosphere was much better. I recall talking about issues back then.
    This has to be the dirtiest, nastiest election campaign I've ever seen. Both candidates are despicable, but what amazes me more is the amount of people who slag off Trump, and yet in the same breath think Clinton is great.

    Uhm, I am a Clinton supporter.
    And do you think she is great?

    Do you think she is 100% trustworthy (forgetting Trump and all that is wrong with him for a second)....?

    I admire Hillary yes. One should read the very critical biography written by Carl Bernstein, 'A Woman In Power'. And at the same time obviously reading Gwenda Blair's biography about Trump (here's a nice piece http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/donald-trump-2016-campaign-biography-psychology-history-barrett-hurt-dantiono-blair-obrien-213835 ). Once you see both Trump and Clinton in the light of their personal lifes from being little kids until their presidential candidacy's this year, you start to understand them better.

    Clinton trustworthy? Off course not. But at least I understand in what kind of troubled family she grew up and how she became the woman she is now. Her offensive, agressive dad, constantly bullying her mother and her two brothers. And she always had to 'get up and don't look back, because life isn't fair'. Hillary had a more difficult youth than Trump had. Trump was born as a rich kid. That gives an entire different perspective on people around you.

    Whereas Clinton fought for kids with severe disabilities, or brought racial inequality under attention when she was president of a student board, Trump merely took over his father's kingdom.

    Having read both extensively about the lives of Clinton and Trump, I can most definately say that I admire Hillary Clinton much more. She's not a charmer, but she has a proven record at helping people with problems. I prefer women who had to work enormously hard to become rich, instead of men like Trump who had a more or less guaranteed life as a billionaire when he was born.

    Trump - we can give it as read that there are serious issues with him being in power. No need to go any further there.

    But I cannot see how you can be blinded by Clinton's unsuitability either.

    She may have an admirable background, but I think the years in politics have corrupted her unfortunately.

    #1 She didn't use a state.gov account to conduct official business.
    #2 She used a personal email account to handle government business.
    #3 She set up a private, personal, "unsecured" server outside of official channels and hid it in her home to handle her emails.
    #4 The man hired to run her server did not have appropriate security clearance to handle classified, sensitive information; he was not vetted or screened by the FBI
    #5 By running her own server she made herself the guardian and the gatekeeper of determining what was a business email and what was a personal email. In essence she was the proverbial fox guarding the hen-house; it was a conflict of interest. Those State emails belong to the people. She has no right to set up a private server and then install herself as the person who decides what gets turned over to the State department after she resigns from her job.

    #6 She transmitted CLASSIFIED and TOP SECRET information through an unsecured server, despite claiming that she hadn't. Some of the information was so sensitive even the FBI investigators didn't have top-level clearance to read what was transmitted.
    #7 19 different devices were used by her (on loan from the State Department) that were never returned; 2 were destroyed with a hammer by Jake Sullivan(?) her deputy.
    #8 She used "Bleach Bit" to try and destroy any trace of the emails on her server
    #9 She tried to delete/destroy thousands of work-related emails that she claimed were personal but were not.

    All of this was in an effort to keep the American people from holding their politicians accountable; she didn't want an official record of her time as Sec.of State that she wasn't in full control of. That meant she had to set up her own server and control her own flow of information. On top of all that, I fully believe she wanted to hide a lot of what the Clinton Foundation was doing, which was essentially selling future political influence to foreign countries on the premise that she'd eventually become President.

    This whole thing makes Watergate look like child's play.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    @jetsetwilly, you are making a lot of assumptions in your analysis.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,327
    echo wrote: »
    @jetsetwilly, you are making a lot of assumptions in your analysis.

    This is only from what I have been told by the media - the same way we are led to assume things about Trump too by the very same media.

    Are you saying all the things I listed are 100% false?
  • I'm not blinded.

    But this is what I mean. It's wrong to admire a politician based on very critical analysis on her life. Yes, she did do a lot of things wrong. Especially regarding the way she's treating emails. But more 'older' people have problems with that. Living in a society that's way more 'hackable' is simply put more difficult. Look at Amy Pascal from Sony.

    There's a huge difference IMO between the Watergate scandal and treating emails the way Hillary did. Did she asked her team to wiretap the entire Republican party while she was in office as secretary of state? I don't think so.

    But then again, it's useless to discuss this. 'Hillary is a criminal who needs to die' and that's it. You support Donald Trump perhaps. I let you. But can I vote Hillary please? Thank you.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,327
    I'm not blinded.

    But this is what I mean. It's wrong to admire a politician based on very critical analysis on her life. Yes, she did do a lot of things wrong. Especially regarding the way she's treating emails. But more 'older' people have problems with that. Living in a society that's way more 'hackable' is simply put more difficult. Look at Amy Pascal from Sony.

    There's a huge difference IMO between the Watergate scandal and treating emails the way Hillary did. Did she asked her team to wiretap the entire Republican party while she was in office as secretary of state? I don't think so.

    But then again, it's useless to discuss this. 'Hillary is a criminal who needs to die' and that's it. You support Donald Trump perhaps. I let you. But can I vote Hillary please? Thank you.

    Lol!
    Point to where I have said I support Trump. I've done nothing but the opposite. Can you not accept that I hate both candidates equally? Neither of them are fit for office. End of!

    And where have I said `Hillary needs to die.' :))

    All I will say about this unfolding scandal is that we don't know what is on those emails that she tried to delete with bleach. They could be nothing, or they could be something a whole lot darker - which is why she went to such lengths to lie about it then try and destroy them. No smoke without fire and all that.

    Either way the truth will probably be revealed soon enough, now that the FBI are back on the case. <:-P
  • Four years ago in the very similar topic, leading to the elections between Romney and Obama......atmosphere was much better. I recall talking about issues back then.
    This has to be the dirtiest, nastiest election campaign I've ever seen. Both candidates are despicable, but what amazes me more is the amount of people who slag off Trump, and yet in the same breath think Clinton is great.

    Uhm, I am a Clinton supporter.
    And do you think she is great?

    Do you think she is 100% trustworthy (forgetting Trump and all that is wrong with him for a second)....?

    Do you think ANY politician is 100% trustworthy? Of course not. Do you live in a world where politicians are unnecessary? Of course not. Would you rather put someone who is at least prepared to assume the position of President into that position...or would you rather put someone who is not now and never will be temperamentally suited for that office into it? Oh, but we're supposed to be forgetting all that is wrong with Trump just for a second.

    Tell you what, Jetboy -- why don't you forget everything you know about the English language and then we'll resume this discussion, okay? Yes, I'm being absurd...and so is your request. The American people have only two choices ahead of them right now: Trump or Clinton. Sad to say but it has indeed become a question of who do you hate the least. As far as I'm concerned, Trump is indeed the most objectionable of the two. You weren't involved in these discussion long enough ago that you'd know this, but back during the primaries I declared my preference for Bernie but my commitment to vote for whoever became the Democratic nominee. My feelings are unchanged, lo these many months later. Hillary gets my vote, but Trump has truly earned my scorn.

    And what do you get? Love Minus Zero/No Limit --we'll go with the Jackson Browne cover, primarily because this video gives us the lyrics printed on the screen. And one more point, for @BondJames -- part of the reason I'm giving y'all so much Dylan is that his lyrics are open to interpretation. Make of them what you will. "Some speak of the future, my love she speaks softly. She knows there's no success like failure, and that failure's no success at all."
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,327
    Four years ago in the very similar topic, leading to the elections between Romney and Obama......atmosphere was much better. I recall talking about issues back then.
    This has to be the dirtiest, nastiest election campaign I've ever seen. Both candidates are despicable, but what amazes me more is the amount of people who slag off Trump, and yet in the same breath think Clinton is great.

    Uhm, I am a Clinton supporter.
    And do you think she is great?

    Do you think she is 100% trustworthy (forgetting Trump and all that is wrong with him for a second)....?

    Do you think ANY politician is 100% trustworthy? Of course not. Do you live in a world where politicians are unnecessary? Of course not. Would you rather put someone who is at least prepared to assume the position of President into that position...or would you rather put someone who is not now and never will be temperamentally suited for that office into it? Oh, but we're supposed to be forgetting all that is wrong with Trump just for a second.

    Tell you what, Jetboy -- why don't you forget everything you know about the English language and then we'll resume this discussion, okay? Yes, I'm being absurd...and so is your request. The American people have only two choices ahead of them right now: Trump or Clinton. Sad to say but it has indeed become a question of who do you hate the least. As far as I'm concerned, Trump is indeed the most objectionable of the two. You weren't involved in these discussion long enough ago that you'd know this, but back during the primaries I declared my preference for Bernie but my commitment to vote for whoever became the Democratic nominee. My feelings are unchanged, lo these many months later. Hillary gets my vote, but Trump has truly earned my scorn.

    I know you only have 2 choices, which are both terrible in their own ways. I feel sorry for your situation in the US. Over here in the UK we have problems of our own too, with the way Brexit is unfolding on us.

    And to answer your question. No, of course I don't think any politician is 100% trustworthy anymore. The world has become a scary place, and will become a whole lot more scary next week when Trump pulls off a shock victory.

    Although you probably won't comprehend that I actually hate Trump as much as I hate Clinton....

    :)>-

    PS. thanks for calling me Jetboy....makes me feel young again.... ;)
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,566
    Either way the truth will probably be revealed soon enough, now that the FBI are back on the case.

    :-O =)) =)) 8-}

    Oh man. You're kidding, right? If you haven't noticed, the news over the past few days is that a faction within the FBI has gone renegade, is not obeying the orders of their superiors, and are trying their best to stack the dice FOR Trump and AGAINST Hillary.

    This post earns you The Travelling Wilburys: Bob Dylan, George Harrison, Tom Petty, Jeff Lynne, and the late, great Roy Orbison, with Dylan's "Tweeter and the Monkeyman"

    "And the walls came down...all the way to hell...never saw them when they're standing, never saw them when they fell." BTW, I see up above that I've only given you four smiley icons. Since there are 5 Willburys, let's give you a fifth. Here's the Monkeyman himself: :(|) Sorry, but it doesn't seem like we have an icon for The Undercover Cop, the villain of this piece...
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,327
    Either way the truth will probably be revealed soon enough, now that the FBI are back on the case.

    :-O =)) =)) 8-}

    Oh man. You're kidding, right? If you haven't noticed, the news over the past few days is that a faction within the FBI has gone renegade, is not obeying the orders of their superiors, and are trying their best to stack the dice FOR Trump and AGAINST Hillary.

    This post earns you The Travelling Wilburys: Bob Dylan, George Harrison, Tom Petty, Jeff Lynne, and the late, great Roy Orbison, with Dylan's "Tweeter and the Monkeyman" (featuring the Undercover Cop.)

    Looks like someone didn't understand my sarcasm. Apologies. I have amended the post with a jokey smiley, so you can understand more clearly that I was being sarcastic. Hope that helps.

    Glad it made you roll around the floor in fits of laughter though. Didn't take much... ;))
  • Looks like someone didn't understand my sarcasm. Apologies.

    Glad it made you roll around the floor in fits of laughter though. Didn't take much... ;))

    I'm just here for the grins, man. No problemo.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Looks like someone didn't understand my sarcasm. Apologies.

    Glad it made you roll around the floor in fits of laughter though. Didn't take much... ;))

    I'm just here for the grins, man. No problemo.

    Me too.
    <:-P
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,566

    PS. thanks for calling me Jetboy....makes me feel young again.... ;)

    Have you read George R.R. Martin's Wild Cards series? It's got a Jetboy featured prominently in the storyline & that's what I was thinking of when I made the reference...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I love Bob Dylan and his lyrics often seem truly timeless. And certainly of our times. Thanks, @BeatlesSansEarmuffs. :)>-

    Not Dylan, but oh my .... I found the best video for this fab song. Here is my era, folks, my time growing up, my influences, the political scene I grew up in. Plus this timeless, relevant song. Take a moment and stop ...:
  • Posts: 3,327

    PS. thanks for calling me Jetboy....makes me feel young again.... ;)

    Have you read George R.R. Martin's Wild Cards series? It's got a Jetboy featured prominently in the storyline & that's what I was thinking of when I made the reference...

    Ahh! Ok.

    The name Jetsetwilly is actually from an old ZX Spectrum game from the 80's that I used to play in my youth.

    Great game.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,566
    editedit
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Thanks. :)
  • I love Bob Dylan and his lyrics often seem truly timeless. And certainly of our times. Thanks, @BeatlesSansEarmuffs. :)>-

    Not Dylan, but oh my .... I found the best video for this fab song. Here is my era, folks, my time growing up, my influences, the political scene I grew up in. Plus this timeless, relevant song. Take a moment and stop ...:

    You're welcome, @4Ever. Nice choice of your own, I've been known to cover it in performance from time to time myself. Just for you, from "The Last Waltz" on a Thanksgiving a few decades back, Bob with the Band, "Forever Young."



  • Needless duplication, edited.
  • For those into conspiracy theories, this is a fun one....

    KToyN0.png
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    They are all different levels of amusement. At least there is variety out there. ;)
  • Klaus, you need to check your radiation shield. Here, I have an extra... yes, it's George Harrison with "Absolutely Sweet Marie." "Well anybody can be just like me, obviously...but then again not too many can be just like you, fortunately."

  • Posts: 6,601
    Either way the truth will probably be revealed soon enough, now that the FBI are back on the case.

    :-O =)) =)) 8-}

    Oh man. You're kidding, right? If you haven't noticed, the news over the past few days is that a faction within the FBI has gone renegade, is not obeying the orders of their superiors, and are trying their best to stack the dice FOR Trump and AGAINST Hillary.



    Brave guys, who finally have the Guts to do whatever is right, before its too late.
    Overall its a terrible Situation, where you have to support a nutcase like trump.
  • Germanlady wrote: »
    Brave guys, who finally have the Guts to do whatever is right, before its too late.
    Overall its a terrible Situation, where you have to support a nutcase like trump.

    Terrible guys, who feel they have the right to abuse their office by interfering in this fashion with the free & fair elections of their own country. Maybe that's acceptable where you & Herr Drumpf hold your sympathies, but not here in America. Have some Guns with your Roses...

    "Put my guns down in the ground
    I can't shoot them anymore
    That long, black cloud is coming down,
    And I feel I'm Knockin' on Heaven's Door..."

  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,327
    They are all different levels of amusement. At least there is variety out there. ;)

    Trump as a time traveller is the craziest thing I've ever read on the internet. I knew he was based on Biff from Back to the Future, but this is something else..... >-)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited November 2016 Posts: 28,694
    Wait...is Donald Trump a regenerated form of Doctor Who?!
  • Posts: 1,296
    Keep the tunes comin', play us out until we can lock this thread on Nov 8th :)
  • IGUANNA wrote: »
    Keep the tunes comin', play us out until we can lock this thread on Nov 8th :)

    What makes you think the thread will be done just because this particular election is over? The campaign for the Republican nomination of 2020 starts November 9th. The early Bob Dylan would like to inform us all (me too!) about the Eternal Circle:



    I sang the song slowly
    As she stood in the shadows
    She stepped to the light
    As my silver strings spun
    She called with her eyes
    To the tune I's a-playin'
    But the song it was long
    And I'd only begun

    Through a bullet of light
    Her face was reflectin'
    The fast fading words
    That rolled from my tongue
    With a long-distance look
    Her eyes was on fire
    But the song it was long
    And there was more to be sung.

    My eyes danced a circle
    Across her clear outline
    With her head tilted sideways
    She called me again
    As the tune drifted out
    She breathed hard through the echo
    But the song it was long
    And it was far to the end

    I glanced at my guitar
    And played it pretendin'
    That of all the eyes out there
    I could see none
    As her thoughts pounded hard
    Like the pierce of an arrow
    But the song it was long
    And it had to get done

    As the tune finally folded
    I laid down the guitar
    Then looked for the girl
    Who'd stayed for so long
    But her shadow was missin'
    For all of my searchin'
    So I picked up my guitar
    And began the next song
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I'm all for closing this particular thread after the election results are final. If politics are to be continued, I'd like a different thread opened - that is just my preference.

    Trump already complaining Nevada results are rigged. This will become a broken record.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I'm all for closing this particular thread after the election results are final. If politics are to be continued, I'd like a different thread opened - that is just my preference.

    Trump already complaining Nevada results are rigged. This will become a broken record.

    I would second that. Not sure there should be a new thread, either. Just let it go, I'd say.

    And, with regards to Trump and Nevada, he's going to say that about each state he loses. He couldn't possibly lose on his own racist and bigoted "merits".
This discussion has been closed.