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Thank you for the best laugh I've had in a few days, @Revelator.
"What does it matter to you? When you've got a job to do, you've got to do it well..."
I think you tend to forget one very critical element here. Populism is not only on the right, but also on the far left of the political spectrum. Your arguments are a classical left-right bickering. But I think that's not what's the issue here.
Establishment parties are available in the entire centrist political spectrum, from centre-left (classic UK Labour parties, American Democratic Party, Dutch and German Social-Democrats -PvdA, SPD-, Spanish PSOE) to centre-right (Tories in the UK, Merkel's CDU, Dutch Christian Democrats, Conservative Liberal Party, fiscal conservative Republicans in the USA). And all these parties that are left and right of the centre are being branded 'elite', 'establishment' and sometimes even 'traitors' and 'outright liars' when it comes down to immigration. Merkel, Rutte and Cameron, both centre-right politicians, can do no good at the moment. Same with centre-left politicians like Hollande of France.
Populism is something that you only find on the ultra-right end and ultra-left end of the entire political spectrum. Donald Trump can be considered a right-wing populist. Just like UKIP, the Tea Party, and 'Trumpites', Front National, Geert Wilders and currently the Polish and Hungarian governments.
BUT there are plentiful ultra-left-wing populists as well. Look to Podemos in Spain, the Socialist Party in Netherlands (who have become very anti-EU), Syriza in Greece and even Bernie Sanders in the USA (he only became member of the Democrats because with the DNC you have the best chance of actually becoming a presidential candidate. In the new Senate Sanders is again a very left-wing independent).
So it's a rather bold, untrue and also a bit cheap statement to put all the blame on the Democrats. The Republican Party wasn't prepared at all for a Trump victory. If you say that Trump was sure he would win, then I tell you, you are wrong. Even @BondJames showed at one moment -a few hours before the election- a sigh of disappointment, because even he thought that Clinton would win.
Only one month ago the Republicans went through a complete deconstruction of their own party as well, thanks to Trump. There was a 'civil war' brewing between moderate, more centrist Republicans and Trump supporters. And perhaps there still is. The same thing happened with the Democratic Party. But I do think they were experiencing bad luck and bad timing. The establishment-GOP was fearing a total loss with Donald Trump. John McCain's and Paul Ryan's behavior shows that. Now, they show a sigh of relief, but that was very different before the election results came in.
But, if you ask me, with a gun under my chin, if I would vote for a left-wing populist like Bernie Sanders or a right-wing populist like Donald Trump......then by all means give me Bernie Sanders (I am STILL a Hillary Clinton supporter, and by jolly she took over a lot of Bernie's policies in the Democratic Party Platform). Both guys severely dislike establishment, Wall Street and global trade treaties yes. But when it comes down to stirring up hate, violence, racism and fear during a campaign, then I can tell you that Bernie Sanders stays completely clean on that aspect.
It is nice to see that Donald Trump has severely restrained himself during the last 48 hours. He comes off as presidential. I have to agree with that. But I still think the man has to apoligize to certain people. When Obama rose to power in 2008, there was no violence on the streets. Now with Trump as president-elect there actually is a lot of violence on the streets, which reminds me a lot of the young generation during Nixon's reign. Campaign rhetoric or not, Mr Trump offended a lot of people. And he has to address that at least in his inauguration speech.
Regarding his financial and economic policies? In all honesty....I expect Hoover-esque, Bush-esque stuff. Just loads of idiotic tax cuts for the rich (even huge tax cuts for not just 'normal' families, but for the richest families in the USA, who earn more that €60,000 a year). And we all know that if there isn't enough federal tax return, the state debt will only continue to grow.
Bringing back all factory jobs in Iowa, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan? Don't let me laugh. They will never come back. That's an illusion. As long as it costs less to produce outside the USA, production facilities will not come back. It's a long-term reality, and I think politicians need to be honest and say Ï can not promiss you to bring back factory jobs".
The only thing that does interest me, is Trump's wish to heavily invest in infrastructure. Which makes me kind of happy. But at the same thing I think it's a huge mistake to follow-up Bush' policies of basically erasing a worthy education department and with it the necessary investments in higher education. Because the young people eventually need to carry the nation, not Rudi Giuliani or Newt Gingrich. So I will severely miss Obama's interest in science.
So again. Please be nuanced. People hate me for using the word 'nuance', but I think it should be the new norm again in this ever-globalizing, complex world. If you want to unify the country, stop blaiming, stop pointing fingers, and at least try to be nice to the Democrats...just like Obama did to the Republicans when he came president in 2008.
Nice read @legionnaire
Yes the hyperbole in this thread has met whale-like proportions.
YOLT volcano-set like proportions. Happy to have popped in and bloated the whale a few times myself.
But fair warning, that whale moves around the board. Get a load of Skyfall yea or nea, or Spectre yea or nea. Epic Moby Dick level battles.
true...
I don't put ALL the blame on the Democrats. But they had it in their hands. The kind of arrogance they showed had to backfire. Calling Trump voters "deplorables" could very well have influenced the decision in favour of Trump.
You cannot just ridicule a very large group of voters that way.
Furthermore they acted as if they had already won. How stupid can they be? History has shown more than once that you don't win elections that way.
I hope and pray the Democrats will have the guts to put someone like Warren or Sanders on the ticket next time. That's the only chance to prevent a second term for Trump.
The political elitist establishment will not win any election again for the foreseeable future.
Glad to help--many of us could use cheering up...at least four years of cheering up, to be exact.
Woman in hijab attacked at UL-Lafayette by man in Trump hat: police
Beating caught on video; attackers yell ‘Don’t vote Trump!’
Blocking roads, preventing emergency vehicles from potentially accessing people in some sort of a health crisis, looting shops, destroying property. As far as I can tell, all of those things are illegal. The thing that really angers me is how much money we are wasting due to some of these idiots who are looking for any reason at all to **ck **it up.
Sure, there is division in the country, but it won't be the first time it has existed. When Obama won both times, there was great division and a lot of unhappy people. For the most part you didn't see them going out protesting in the streets and causing property damage. America must not mean that much to these Hollywood bozos who say they want to leave and go to Canada to live. Fine, go ahead and leave. Big loss.
@Legionnaire, funny that you are telling others to go back and read history to learn about the checks and balances in place to avoid the presidential seat from turning into a position of oppression and cruelness. Considering it's a crock, I mean.
Only around 100 years ago we had Woodrow Wilson's Sedition Acts in place that was essentially legislated, uncontested thought control, where you could go to jail (as some did) for decades just for saying one negatory thing about him, his presidency, or the military effort he was mounting. Speech and press was choked to death to avoid anything negative from reaching the populace's ears, and for those that dared to publish the truth, severe consequences (and more prison time) were imposed swiftly. That's right, Woodrow beat Hitler to the punch on this one.
Even more contemporary is how Lyndon Johnson got Congress to hand over war powers to him so that he could funnel even more people into Vietnam on a senseless crusade in a conflict that still scars us and more largely its veterans to this day.
I won't even get into Nixon's use of his seat to run schemes or Reagan's dealings with shady characters with heavy mob connections, or the fact that Bush Jr. and his whole band of cronies are war criminals that never paid for their actions in undoing international and US law to spy on, arrest and torture anyone they had just a sneaking suspicion of being a terrorist, even if all evidence pointed to their innocence.
The country has always been vulnerable to presidents using the system to commit cruelties, and because many of the above actions were committed in a time or war, it was excused as necessary to keep the nation together and to be "tough." Again, what a crock.
This idea of 'real change' occurring is a fallacy. Ignore the protest vote of people on the Presidential side of this election and look at the other people who will take the reins of power: dyed-in-the-wool long serving establishment.
Newt Gingrich is about as establishment as you can get - he was the speaker of the house! Chris Christie used corrupt vulgar displays of power to punish his opposition in New Jersey. Giuliani is a power-hungry, yes-man to Trump and an egregious liar. Pence believes homosexuality can be converted out of people but has no problem with pussy-grabbing-galore.
These are the people who will be forging America's future. They have well established agendas - mainly that of feathering their own nest and those like them - rich, old white men. Those same men who are sitting in the senate last week are the same ones sitting in the senate now - If the working class think they will get anything new from politicians at all they are wrong.
I actually think that not that much will change - and that will be the biggest slap in the face for those that voted for Trump. Watch as everything stays the same. Oh, sure maybe some abortion rights get peeled back, crack down on Muslim travellers and a few more guns on the Mexican border. But nothing that will actually effect people from day-to-day. They'll remain poor and voiceless - of that I'm certain. Despite the spun narrative - not everyone who voted for Trump was poor and disenfranchised. They just got used by the power men.
I like Brand's belief here - but I just don't see how it is possible. Saying 'being compassionate' and 'talking with people' is as vague and undefined as 'Make America Great Again' - it's a hollow slogan and a wistful desire that cannot be met. Instead I think canny politicians will just learn how to turn the new lowering of the political requirements to their benefit. As David Simon recently said "In America, there's always a dollar to be made for the mother****ers who know how to lay in the cut."
=))
Nah. Conservatives don't do any damage at all. They're so tame.
2008:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27738018/ns/us_news-life/t/obama-election-spurs-race-threats-crimes/#.WCU1d_nR-M8
1995:
1963:
Going back to the humanity of the situation though - People look at Trump and either have a saviour or a villain to hold up. Yet many of those same people will not even know who is involved in their local body elections, making decisions about neighborhood zoning or schools or even the repair of the very road they live on. It's even more difficult to recognise what those vying for office in our local areas stand for or believe in.
And it's not all doom and gloom - just because mankind finishes on this planet - doesn't mean the planet will cease.
Just ask the dinosaurs. ;-)
You're delusional.
Update: Seems the UL-Lafayette student lied about her attack
Oh, I'm sorry- you just DID.
Mods, time for a thread close, I think.
Sorry had to pick a fitting quote.
Tears in the rain & all that...
People think Trump's a Hitler and people call Clinton 'Hitlery'... but they're oh-so-different aren't they...
Because in these days of selective social media - rather than having a big brother telling you what to think - we can create our own Big Brother to tell us what we want to hear. Everyone is trapped in their own echo chamber. And to break out of that womb-like comfort is nigh on impossible. If you don't want to hear dissenting voices you can just turn them off.
That seems like it wouldn't have an expiry date...
This thread was about who the next POTUS might be. Now it's about being idiots (me included now).
Pull da plug.