The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    stag wrote: »
    An interesting article here. I cannot vouch for its validity as I wasn't there and haven't come across the 'American Spectator' before.

    On a similar vein, unless I had personal dealings with him, I would also be cautious in ascribing the attributes of psychopath and sociopath to Trump.

    https://spectator.org/where-was-hillary/

    I agree @stag, because he just might sue us for calling him names.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @stag, I'm no fan of Hillary. However, with an article like this, who "leaked" this information? I mean really? I'm guessing she was surrounded by her closest confidantes on Election Night, and I'd guess that after the loss was apparent, not many would have seen her but her inner circle.

    So why would any of these people, who went to war with her, betray her moments after her loss? What does anyone, accept for a political opponent, have anything to gain by reporting she went nuts after she her loss.

    I just don't buy this article, and I say this as someone with no skin in the game (I'm not American, and I don't like Hillary-- although out of these two, I think it's apparent I would have given Democrats my vote).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    peter wrote: »
    What I find most interesting about the past election, and specifically the Republicans: Donald Trump was never a Republican, he was a Democrat, a close friend of Bill and Hillary, who donated to both.

    So what gives?

    And now, as a "Republican", he wants to take one of Reagan's legacies, NAFTA, and rip it up. As a Republican, how could one vote for this?

    Is he a Republican? Or is he a Democrat? Or does he run under his own twisted ideology and, knowing it wouldn't quite fly under the Democrats, and knowing he would't get real traction as an Independent, chose the mantle of the Republicans instead?

    What is Donald Trump?

    Trump and Hillary both switched party affiliation.She was a Republican until Bill ran for Governor. Clinton could have run as a Republican, and Trump as a Democrat. It would have made no fifference.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    peter wrote: »
    What I find most interesting about the past election, and specifically the Republicans: Donald Trump was never a Republican, he was a Democrat, a close friend of Bill and Hillary, who donated to both.

    So what gives?

    And now, as a "Republican", he wants to take one of Reagan's legacies, NAFTA, and rip it up. As a Republican, how could one vote for this?

    Is he a Republican? Or is he a Democrat? Or does he run under his own twisted ideology and, knowing it wouldn't quite fly under the Democrats, and knowing he would't get real traction as an Independent, chose the mantle of the Republicans instead?

    What is Donald Trump?
    One of the better chances to end the partisan divide that has polluted American politics for decades. Not a sure fire win, but certainly a chance, and for precisely the reasons you note.

    Who voted for him? People who are fed up with the partisan drivel from the elites and the media.

    Look at these two idiots laughing here (this was before he won the nomination). It says a lot. Who's laughing now, chumps?:


    Here is a legendary clip on CNN which reportedly ended the Crossfire show. Jon Stewart single handedly destroyed these two hacks 12 yrs ago.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    As a Brit looking on, Clinton was very unlikeable and Trump clearly mirrors the feelings of a large number of Americans at this time.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited November 2016 Posts: 1,053
    peter wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    An interesting article here. I cannot vouch for its validity as I wasn't there and haven't come across the 'American Spectator' before.

    On a similar vein, unless I had personal dealings with him, I would also be cautious in ascribing the attributes of psychopath and sociopath to Trump.

    https://spectator.org/where-was-hillary/

    I agree @stag, because he just might sue us for calling him names.

    Who leaked the information about trump being a psycopath/sociopath? Unless he (or she - Hillary) is known personally to those who are doing the accusing then it is a clear indicator the person(s) doing the accusing has a propensity to take whatever the media feeds and gratefully swallow it.

    Though I stand to be corrected I'm not entirely sure that even the Americans would put forward a psychopath and/or sociopath forward for nomination?

    People may not like his policies or his attitudes but to label him as such is going a tad too far?

    What about Hilary then? If we were to believe the report - or not even bother digging any deeper - what do we make of her?



  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    stag wrote: »
    People may not like his policies or his attitudes but to label him as such is going a tad too far?
    Perhaps you haven't been following all the words that were actually coming out of his mouth, eh?trumpwillwin-notext.jpg
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I see your point @stag, and although my exact words were "Unless he's a complete psychopath, I can't see a New Yorker repealing gay rights/marriage... ", I should have chosen my words more carefully; more like, unless he is a psychopath. And you're right, I don't know if he is, or is not, my words were based on my utter dislike for the man. He's tacky and childish (I can't stomach the way he's ready to sue anyone who says anything against him; he throws the words "sue" and "lawsuit" around so many times they fail to have meaning any more. One would just assume that if you write anything about him, or speak about him, in the negative, he will come at you with one of these two words); he's narcissistic and egocentric.

    But then again, I suppose, one could describe Hillary as being the same.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    bondjames wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    What I find most interesting about the past election, and specifically the Republicans: Donald Trump was never a Republican, he was a Democrat, a close friend of Bill and Hillary, who donated to both.

    So what gives?

    And now, as a "Republican", he wants to take one of Reagan's legacies, NAFTA, and rip it up. As a Republican, how could one vote for this?

    Is he a Republican? Or is he a Democrat? Or does he run under his own twisted ideology and, knowing it wouldn't quite fly under the Democrats, and knowing he would't get real traction as an Independent, chose the mantle of the Republicans instead?

    What is Donald Trump?
    One of the better chances to end the partisan divide that has polluted American politics for decades. Not a sure fire win, but certainly a chance, and for precisely the reasons you note.

    Who voted for him? People who are fed up with the partisan drivel from the elites and the media.

    Look at these two idiots laughing here (this was before he won the nomination). It says a lot. Who's laughing now, chumps?:


    Here is a legendary clip on CNN which reportedly ended the Crossfire show. Jon Stewart single handedly destroyed these two hacks 12 yrs ago.

    I see where you're coming from @bondjames, and, as I understand it, from reading your past posts, you have voted for both parties before. I imagine I would have done the same since I'm not hard left or right, and would listen to which candidate would best navigate the next four years of mine, and my country's, life.

    It seems that you have approached your right to vote very seriously and you have weighed options, keeping an open mind in the past.

    In this case re: Trump/Clinton, I understand that theoretically, Trump's populist stance and his "outsider" status would make one hope that a new set of fresh ideas and policies are on the way to Washington.

    But from watching on my perch here in Toronto, Canada, I just can't see that happening. Mike Pence (and correct me if I'm wrong) is a creationist who has, in the recent past, been very anti gay rights and marriage.

    This is disturbing. A creationist. I know this is opening up a can of worms, and, in my heart of hearts, I know that true freedom is allowing people the right to have religious freedoms. Philosophically, however, it scares the hell out of me that the Number Two in charge has such a backward approach to our existence on this planet. That he has yet to embrace the continued progression of science. And I can't help but wonder, how will this effect the educational system in the States and what will be expected to be taught in science classes around the country?

    Also, if Pence actually does believe in freedom and liberties, if he was really on board with these notions, then why can't he respect that homosexuality is not a choice, it can't be "cured", and all humans, in adult, consenting relationships, should be able to marry whomever they choose? If you don't believe in this basic, human right, the right to choose a life partner, then you can't believe in civili liberties as a whole.

    Trump chose this guy as his running mate. A creationist who doesn't absolutely believe in human rights. To me, that's what turns me off of the Republicans. They have been robbed of creativity, and freedom of thought, since they've been hijacked by a powerful and wealthy evangelical interest group. What happened to not mixing religion and politics? It's a dangerous cocktail that have made too many drunk at the dinner table, making too many poor mistakes in history.

    Trump is feeding into this special interest group, and they will have a strong voice at the dinner table; how they want to shape the country.



  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @peter, you're right on Pence's prior statements and views.

    However, there is what one believes deep down (for religious and other reasons) and what one can practically change. Even on the Republican side, they know that certain debates are over and done with (as Trump himself has said on the recent 60 minutes interview post-election) and there's no going back. They may hold onto their conservative views, but the world has moved on, and they must come to terms with that.

    Moreover, one can approach things in one fashion when governor of a particular state and then grow into a more centrist balanced national view once in the VP position. That is what I'm hoping to see, not only from Pence, but from others in the Trump cabinet. The leadership will have to come from the top (i.e. Trump), but so far since he was announced as VP pick, Pence has been reasonable in his statements (and he seems like a reasonable man). I'm looking for that to continue.

    One can't get rid of the religiously conservative viewpoint. It will always be there during our lifetime, and particularly in the US. It's not my view, but I can understand why some have that view, and I think it's best for all to work towards common understanding and compromise while respecting human rights and freedoms for the population as a whole.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @bondjames, I sincerely admire you're optimism. I think it comes from a very healthy and well thought-out decision making process within you. You've always come across as very balanced in your opinions.

    At this stage, one can only, at this point, hypothesize what the new administration will bring. You've obviously been watching and reading as much as you can, and your thoughts are very well articulated and genuine.

    I also agree that, to date, Pence seems like a reasonable guy, and yes, one would hope that being VP, his own philosophies would be tempered to fit the populace as a whole. However, there is a side that's concerning: education.

    Laws may have changed, and there's no jumping back in time, but would people, of a certain belief, that will soon be in power, plan incremental changes, to shape America as they would like it shaped, through education? And if this is a possibility, are you comfortable, so far, in the people Trump is appointing to his administration, that can see these changes come into effect?

    Also, if Trump elects a supreme court judge, can they over turn R v W?

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    peter wrote: »
    Pence seems like a reasonable guy,
    200_s.gif
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @peter, thanks. I believe that you too are similarly inclined to see the best in people and that's the way it should be. We all may have our biases and predispositions, but when we are in positions of greater responsibility (including raising children etc.) we must change for the greater good, and it's an innate human characteristic to do so.

    There's no question that a new administration may have certain leanings and that will on the margin impact or reflect the views of a certain element of the population. That's why there are elections. However, ultimately big changes will only come about if the majority of the nation is so inclined. Fringe views are unlikely to become law, especially in today's mass information age.

    I don't believe R v W will be overturned. It's been law for far too long and other cases have been based on it precedently. The political push back would not be worth the effort.

    Having said that, while I'm personally not against abortion per se (I believe people should be able to do what they want to do with their own bodies), I'm not happy about it either. I would prefer if there were less abortions and anything that can educate the public to prevent this scenario and eventuality would be a plus in my view.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @bondjames, you and I both re: abortion. People have the right to make whatever choices re: their bodies, but I'd like to see less abortion. I think most people fall squarely in this camp (or I'd hope).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    peter wrote: »
    @bondjames, you and I both re: abortion. People have the right to make whatever choices re: their bodies, but I'd like to see less abortion. I think most people fall squarely in this camp (or I'd hope).
    It all comes down to personal responsibility and understanding the natural consequence of one's own actions. There are exceptions of course, but generally it comes down to balancing personal freedom with consequence & accountability.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    peter wrote: »
    @bondjames, you and I both re: abortion. People have the right to make whatever choices re: their bodies, but I'd like to see less abortion. I think most people fall squarely in this camp (or I'd hope).
    I'm with you two here, but de-funding planned parenthood won't result in LESS abortions...
    [-(
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    For an outsider, Trump sure picks a lot of insiders for his team. Unless someone already picked them for him. It s Obama all over again.
  • peter wrote: »
    What is Donald Trump?

    Undoubtedly the first thing the aliens—or ghosts or what have you—will ask once they begin grouping and classifying the world's biota.

    Also (and many do not know this) the next line of dialogue that follows, "God, are you there? It's me, Margaret."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    For an outsider, Trump sure picks a lot of insiders for his team. Unless someone already picked them for him. It s Obama all over again.
    Worse. Sadly, you'll see what I mean in the coming year.
    :-w
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2016 Posts: 17,801
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    chrisisall wrote: »
    THIS THREAD IS CLOSED

    I managed to hack in!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    By @chrisisall's request: LOCKED.
This discussion has been closed.