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Trump is an abomination -- and an embarrassment.
Ultimately, I believe that this all comes down to money. We have a concentrated media owned by conglomerates with agendas. Additionally, we have politicians owned by conglomerates with agendas (some foreign too....which we don't know about). When the Supreme Court could pass Citizens United, then you know even the law is corrupt.
The system is broken because it doesn't represent the interests of the people any more. The candidates represent their backers first and foremost (and, as I said, foreign interests sometimes over their own citizens).
Trump and Sanders are a reaction to that. One is more civil, and the other is more bombastic, but ultimately they are a reaction to the same problem. The masses have been ignored and lied to for too long, and they've had enough. Either they will get their reform candidate on this round, or they will demand and get someone more extreme next time around.
Ultimately, I don't blame American Politicians and I don't blame American Voters. They are both pawns. I blame American money and unfettered capitalism. In other words, unchecked greed.
I'm afraid history will prove you wrong on this matter. It's the inherent flaw in democracy that it seldom concludes with the most authentic or best candidate, but more likely the most appealing/ sexy/ charismatic leader. Or, and that's where Hitler is such a good example, as he wrote it himself in Mein Kampf, the one with the best propaganda. That's how he won. Selling a terrible story, full of lies, in the simpelest and
consistent way possible. That made him the 'democratic' victor. Which gave him the opportunity to seize power.
Trade deals? That's funny, as it's the US who's been putting those upon the world, and it's people like Drumpf who've profited the most. I'm sorry, but this guy is selling you stories, not what he really thinks. He's an opportunist lying through his teeth in a charismatic way. He himself has profited the most from all the things he's 'agianst'. He brings exactly what to middle class America? Jobs? How? Healthcare? Steady income? Education? Anything that will actually help you to get a chance in life?
@bondjames I respect your opinion and I understand how fed up you must be with the system that's now in place, and the power politics of career politicians like Hillary. But that doesn't mean that a propaganda guru like Drumpf is the answer. And yes, I understand you like the shake up, but don't be too confident if he turns out to be the candidate he won't win. Don't ever presume any 'sense' in the masses. Am I beeing arrogant? No. I know how easy it is to believe in a story, we're biologically programmed to believe stories, it was a way to survive when numbers were low. And on average that isn't bad, but with propaganda it is. It's easy to turn a blind eye, claiming it won't get that far. History has proven those who claim so wrong. And that has cost millions of lives. Again, yes, the system should change. But voting for the worst result you could hope for so people will 'understand'doesn't work. It kills.
I struggle to see why the politicians and voters are blameless. They have turned a blind eye and let the financial big boys get all the power. They have bought into trivial propaganda, lies and manipulation. I strongly doubt voting for Trump is an intelligent protest against corruption. I see it as yet more blind and ignorant submission to the propaganda and manipulation from the destructive chiefs you are describing. Seriously, protest against financial strugglehold on supposed "democratic" politics by electing a financial billionaire? :)) Well, that makes sense...
All that you say is true, but we know that and so does the electorate. They aren't as stupid as you (and many not from the US) seem to think they are. He has even admitted it himself in the debates. He is a businessman and he does what he has to do when acting in that capacity. Can you blame him?
Trump didn't put those trade deals in place. He is against the way they have been negotiated. I agree with him. NAFTA, which was partly responsible for hollowing out the middle class, was implemented by Hillary's husband.
@CommanderRoss, if he wins, he wins. If he loses, he loses. I do trust the presidential system to ultimately result in the right choice in the US. It's messy, arduous, and very tough. At the end of the day, the winner has some merits. We're a long way from the finish line and both candidates will be tested very severely in the next few months, particularly with respect to their character and fortitude.
Neither of the choices on the table is ideal, but one at least has a chance to make some long needed changes. The other cannot. As I have said much earlier on this thread, Trump is a risk, but one must take a risk to have a chance for change. Either that or play it safe. No in between here.
As I said, Trump and Sanders are a reaction to that concentrated power.
I am not holding Trump's money against him. He is a billionaire. So what? If he is elected to office, that doesn't mean he can't do things which can improve jobs for the masses, or simplify the tax code, or renegotiate trade deals, or stop currency manipulation. I'm not saying he will do these things, but just because he is a billionaire doesn't mean he won't either.
As I've said earlier on this thread, the man has an ego like no other. That ego can be put to good use, because he will want to be remembered well. He doesn't need this job.
This falls in the catagory it's easier said then done. Again, the deals were made on behalf of people like Drumpf. Not with the US middle class in mind. Sure, those deals weren't done openly etc. etc. But pretending he could've done it differently is utter nonsense. As I said, this man is bound to make a lot of enemies overseas. And then there won't be trade deals, nor political ones. Defending your interests on the rest of the planet is going to be very hard. The US used to be the side that would be able to bully the rest of the world towards it's own needs, but that's long past now. And Drumpf is set on learning that the hard way.
And here I'm afraid I think you're mistaken. This time de the medicine will be far worse then the ailment. That risk is one you don't want to take!
(who's the conservative now? ;-) )
And what do you think, does an egomaniac consider "well"?
Like others say, he will be in war with the rest of the world, before you can say His name is Trump, Donald Trump.
And you so often talk about faith in the system. Really?A system that provided Bush. TWICE!!! That was when I stopped believing in the Americans as a thinking species.
If it was just you then ok, but this impacts the whole world and we are in enough trouble as it is. We don't need another wild man running around touting guns and co.
Trump's success is NOT a reaction to the status quo. It is a manifestation of the racism, xenophobia, and general outrage of the political right, all of which have been building since the inception of the Tea Party and the rise of Fox News and Conservative talk radio. What we are seeing ("ban muslims from entering the country" / "build a wall to keep out the Mexicans") comes from the right-wing fear machine.
The day that the American population succumbs to fear over optimism (and they haven't done that yet - Trump does not represent fear despite what others say - it is the establishment and those who try to stop him who are in fact fearful) is the day the country is finally on its way down.
Obama proved there is 'hope' still. Trump is just a different kind of hope. He is not here to preside over the world. Just the US. The same was true of Obama (although the world projected its hope on him too due to his rhetoric). These are not internationalists. They are nationalists. One was conciliatory (to repair the damage Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld did) and the other is bombastic.
Regarding Bush being elected twice: That is a function of the alternatives that were provided. Fake Gore (who didn't know who he was in 2000) and Kerry (who got swift-boated). Say what you want about Bush. The man was and is very authentic in his own skin. Everyone knew what they were getting with Bush.
Again, if he is the nominee, you will witness this in the general election.
Yes and exactly THAT makes it so scary, that he got elected again.
8-|
That, sadly, is the lesson that some political operatives and strategists (cough) who advise would be candidates always forget. Be authentic. Don't look like you're a flip flopper or a calculator (or in Bill Clinton parlance, a 'triangulator'). You will go down. That was the lesson of 2004. Kerry was seen to be a flip flopper on National security, which was a concern in that year.
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But that is not the point we made. Point is, you know what you get and choose it nevertheless. There was nobody worse then Bush that year. You may say, people found him authentic. Authentic in what? In his mental illness?
I'm not condoning it. I don't have an opinion on it. However, it is what it is and I am commenting on it.
During Bill Clinton's time 'triangulation' was the name of the game politically. Since 911 and especially since income disparity has increased, authenticity is the name of the game. It's more important than being correct.
The electorate knows Trump's weaknesses. There has been several $m of negative attack ads spent against him documenting these weaknesses. Surveys have shown that people are voting for him irrespective of that, because they don't trust the others. Apparently despite his weaknesses, which are primarily his crude obnoxiousness.
"Whoever wins, WE LOSE!"
If you're commenting on it, you're expressing an opinion. Otherwise you're just flapping your lips to generate an empty breeze.
Its just terribly sad, that mankind isn't learning faster. They might miss the mark.
I know. I work in retail.
A lot of establishment credibility was lost due to that.
That is why 'Wall Street', which Bernie keeps going on about is such a potent issue - still, after all these years, and legitimately so.
If you're weak or calculating, you will be caught out and you will go down. The media are like hounds when they catch that. Witness Trump's problem re: Duke which was quite damaging for a while.
There may not be quality discussion on the issues, but there are mechanisms in place to catch someone playing for the camera.
Well, those mecanisms have worked brilliantly so far, haven't they... So well in fact that most other serious competitors (not that they were much better...) have frown in the towell, while Trump's ridiculous lies and mind tricks still work to full affect. The media is indeed doing a great job aren't they, giving Trump so much uncritical coverage... And obviously Trump is not a "pawn in any ones game" is he? He certainly has no powerfull friends in the media and the fanincial world that would benefit from his election does he? If there is one candidate you would trust to run the country with the people in mind and not for the benefit of himself or powerfull, corrupt friends, it is certainly Trump!
Isn't it obvious, @bondjames that the electorial process is terrible, and that those who vote for Trump are mostly ignorant, brain washed people?
The other candidates have ignored these large and important concerns of the public. They are fiddling around and dealing in minutia. There are fundamental problems with the American dream, and that is not something one discusses by pissing about on the edges. Wholesale changes are required. First and foremost, income inequality and jobs are #1. This requires bold and ballsy leadership, which in particular must get the support of the heretofore obstructionist Republican Congress because everything goes through them.
I mentioned much earlier on this thread that I expect much more from Trump if he wins the nomination. He is the leader of a movement now. One that he 'accidentally fell' into. Bigger than himself. He has power in his hands, and he has to show us how he plans to use it. All eyes will be on him, assuming he is the nominee, for about 6 months. He has to start to show that he has concrete solutions to the problems which he has correctly identified.
Expectations are quite high. There are many educated people who are waiting to see if he can step up to the moment. If he can, he will be elected. If he can't he will lose big because people won't want to take the risk on him. I am sure of it.