The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I have only one thing to say to non believers, and Washington insiders. "You're fired!!"
  • Posts: 1,631
    bondjames wrote: »
    I have only one thing to say to non believers, and Washington insiders. "You're fired!!"

    They definitely have gotten it wrong time after time in this cycle. That's a good thing, though, since it shows the voters not just going with the pre-determined plot the media came up with, as sometimes happens.

    Can't wait to see how Trump attacks Rubio. Rubio, moreso than any of the other candidates not named Cruz, is ripe for attacks. He barely shows up for work in the Senate, and he touts his record as the most experienced foreign policy person in the race, yet he's skipped 60% of the foreign relations committee hearings. I'd expect Trump to hammer down on that point heavily.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    dalton wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I have only one thing to say to non believers, and Washington insiders. "You're fired!!"

    They definitely have gotten it wrong time after time in this cycle. That's a good thing, though, since it shows the voters not just going with the pre-determined plot the media came up with, as sometimes happens.

    Can't wait to see how Trump attacks Rubio. Rubio, moreso than any of the other candidates not named Cruz, is ripe for attacks. He barely shows up for work in the Senate, and he touts his record as the most experienced foreign policy person in the race, yet he's skipped 60% of the foreign relations committee hearings. I'd expect Trump to hammer down on that point heavily.
    On the Dem side, I'm disappointed that Bernie didn't do better yesterday. Hillary is pulling out all the stops (including slight tearing up in a New York speech and at yesterday's victory speech) to endear herself more to the electorate. Sanders has to step up his game.

    On the Repub side, look for a lot of insiders to start coming out in the media and slamming Trump. Romney, Haley, Graham, and the big daddy of all, McCain (where's he been lately, unless he's been hurt by the no war hero allegations).
  • Posts: 1,631
    Bernie does have to step up his game, and that's only going to come when he broadens his scope a bit on the issues. Yes, keep hammering home the "rigged" economy message, but in these dangerous time, you have to show some knowledge of foreign affairs, and that's where Bernie has failed big time so far. He's not going to make a big run at Hillary, especially in the southern states getting ready to vote, if he can't demonstrate some knowledge of foreign affairs.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I can't believe this is even being discussed. Trump? That guy from The Apprentice TV show? The billionaire nut case? A President?!?!?!?
    I must have been in a car accident, and am in a drug induced coma... this can't be real....

    Welcome to America, 2016. The Right wing of this country has lost its collective mind.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that the right wing of the US has "lost its collective mind". This election very well could lead to the destruction of what the Republican party had become thanks to the Tea Party. If Donald Trump can basically burn the Republican party to the ground in a metaphorical sense, the short term might not be so attractive, but it could lead to someone in the next cycle being able to come in, pick up the pieces, and reform the party around more moderate ideals rather than simply being the party of obstructionism.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    dalton wrote: »
    I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that the right wing of the US has "lost its collective mind". This election very well could lead to the destruction of what the Republican party had become thanks to the Tea Party. If Donald Trump can basically burn the Republican party to the ground in a metaphorical sense, the short term might not be so attractive, but it could lead to someone in the next cycle being able to come in, pick up the pieces, and reform the party around more moderate ideals rather than simply being the party of obstructionism.
    Agreed. That is exactly what the power brokers (who have bought, paid, and owned that party for some time now) are most fearful of.

    Also, the 'ghost' of Reagan must finally be exorcised. Sadly the man is no longer here to rebut some of the claims made in his name.
  • Posts: 1,631
    bondjames wrote: »
    Also, the 'ghost' of Reagan must finally be exorcised. Sadly the man is no longer here to rebut some of the claims made in his name.

    Yes, indeed it does. I sometimes find myself sick watching Ted Cruz invoke Reagan's name as a cover for the things he wants to do. Cruz would be the single most divisive president we've ever had. He's singularly responsible for a government shutdown and he refuses to compromise. Reagan, on the other hand, managed to leave office with a 68% approval rating, tied for the most in the modern era (alongside FDR and Clinton), so he was successful to some degree as a uniting force. Cruz is the exact antithesis of that.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    See what 18 year old Ted Cruz has to say about his future aspirations... :)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,410
    it's been along time since right-wing policy had an influence in the west. Being right-wing in the 21st century just means being the least left-wing possible. It's not separate anymore. The real fight now is between libertarians and authoritarians. Trump is a social authoritarian, but so is Clinton as she appeals to the SJW's who want to ban everything. Sanders is a economic authoritarian because he believes in government intervention to ensure that money goes to the right people, not a Classical Liberal position.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Sanders is a economic authoritarian because he believes in government intervention to ensure that money goes to the right people,
    Not precisely correct... Sanders is of my way of thinking- the more money you make as an American company, the more money you need to give back into the system that made it possible for you to become wealthy.
  • Posts: 1,631
    chrisisall wrote: »
    See what 18 year old Ted Cruz has to say about his future aspirations... :)

    I haven't been following the political ads this time around (cut the cord on cable so I don't see much in the way of "real" TV), so I don't know if they have already or not, but if I were Trump and Rubio, I'd use that footage over and over and over.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    No way; Bernie will take it out from under her!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    If it's Hillary, I'm buying Lockheed and Raytheon stock as I said earlier, and building a bunker.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    bondjames wrote: »
    If it's Hillary, I'm buying Lockheed and Raytheon stock as I said earlier, and building a bunker.

    You are wise...
  • I think the reason that Trump resonates so much with voters is that he is the only candidate that seems to be taking the issues of illegal immigration and terrorism seriously. Again, I'm with most people here that his motives for running may be suspect. I guess all we can do there is wait and see on that. But he's touching on hot button issues that the other candidates for whatever reasons don't want to touch. And I think voters from both parties find that attractive about him.
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 1,631
    I think the reason that Trump resonates so much with voters is that he is the only candidate that seems to be taking the issues of illegal immigration and terrorism seriously. Again, I'm with most people here that his motives for running may be suspect. I guess all we can do there is wait and see on that. But he's touching on hot button issues that the other candidates for whatever reasons don't want to touch. And I think voters from both parties find that attractive about him.

    And to add to that, when the establishment candidates do talk about illegal immigration and the other issues that Trump is addressing, they never get anything meaningful done about them. They use it as a campaign issue to pander for votes and then don't do anything once they get to Washington.

    He's tapping into that anger and he will be a very formidable candidate for Clinton to face in the general, if indeed he is the nominee. He does have history on his side, as no Republican has won both New Hampshire and South Carolina and not gone on to be the nominee. Hillary should be worried as she'll be facing another anti-establishment, grass-roots campaign, the type of campaign she struggles against anyway, but this time it will be one that is in no way afraid to do actually go after her in the way that Bernie hasn't so far in the primary.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Yes, play the alarmist card. Always sounds good.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    Yes, play the alarmist card. Always sounds good.

    Well if you think that everything
    dalton wrote: »
    I think the reason that Trump resonates so much with voters is that he is the only candidate that seems to be taking the issues of illegal immigration and terrorism seriously. Again, I'm with most people here that his motives for running may be suspect. I guess all we can do there is wait and see on that. But he's touching on hot button issues that the other candidates for whatever reasons don't want to touch. And I think voters from both parties find that attractive about him.

    And to add to that, when the establishment candidates do talk about illegal immigration and the other issues that Trump is addressing, they never get anything meaningful done about them. They use it as a campaign issue to pander for votes and then don't do anything once they get to Washington.

    He's tapping into that anger and he will be a very formidable candidate for Clinton to face in the general, if indeed he is the nominee. He does have history on his side, as no Republican has won both New Hampshire and South Carolina and not gone on to be the nominee. Hillary should be worried as she'll be facing another anti-establishment, grass-roots campaign, the type of campaign she struggles against anyway, but this time it will be one that is in no way afraid to do actually go after her in the way that Bernie hasn't so far in the primary.

    Agreed on all points. Hillary will have a "fun" summer and fall if she gets past Bernie.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    Yes, play the alarmist card. Always sounds good.

    Well, if you think everything is hunky dory with regards to illegal immigration and the terrorist threat in the U.S., then you are either not paying attention or you are in denial. All I know is that wide open borders can attract some very dangerous people.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    No matter what the polls say right now, if it's Clinton vs. Trump, Trump will take it in a landslide. I'm sure of it.

    Apparently in the north east some union leaders (Dem's) are starting to panic because their members (including minorities) have started to show support for Trump.
  • Posts: 1,631
    If it does turn out to be Trump vs. Clinton, I could see Trump taking it due to low voter turnout, which always works in the favor of the Republicans. A general election between those two would be one of the biggest mud-slinging contests we've ever seen, with debates most likely devolving into shouting matches back and forth, which could turn a lot of people off of the process.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Clinton won't go down easy. I'm quite certain. Obama found that out.

    Trump has been facing kids compared to what he will face if he's the nominee against Hillary.

    PS: I'm not sure Trump as nominee will result in low voter turnout. He is channeling a populist revolt, and the Repubs are motivated this year.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Yes, play the alarmist card. Always sounds good.
    Well, if you think everything is hunky dory with regards to illegal immigration and the terrorist threat in the U.S., then you are either not paying attention or you are in denial. All I know is that wide open borders can attract some very dangerous people.
    In my experience when peeps say "All I know is.." that really IS all they know.
    I was 26 miles from the Trade Center on 9-11, my Brother-in-law was RIGHT THERE. And I don't go around hating or fearing Muslims, nor do I fear for my life from terrorist attacks. And NO, I'm not from Krypton, I just have a realistic sense of danger NOT handed to me by the right wing media but determined by research and decided upon using my OWN faculties. I guess I'm an independent that way, a Browncoat if you will.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Border security is something that has been long overdue to be discussed and actually fixed on the national level. I'm not one that's living in daily fear of a terrorist attack, but at the same time, there has to be some kind of common sense way for both parties to come together and make the border more secure.

    Between the drug trade and the potential for both criminals and terrorists to come across an unguarded border, it only makes sense to do something, even if the actual chances of something that we'd label as a terrorist attack is statistically low.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    No matter what the polls say right now, if it's Clinton vs. Trump, Trump will take it in a landslide. I'm sure of it.

    Apparently in the north east some union leaders (Dem's) are starting to panic because their members (including minorities) have started to show support for Trump.

    You are absolutely off on this. The opposite. He will not take any of the large, traditionally liberal states. He would have to take all of the 9 swing states (Romney took one, I don't think McCain took any). He won't get the hispanic vote, he won't get the black, when laid bare he won't get any sizable percentage traditional liberal votes, he will fall big with women. The numbers don't add up.

    I'll take a wager now.
    @Birdleson, Trump is defying expectations and redrawing the map. I think all past comparative analysis does not apply to him.

    Yes. the conventional wisdom is that there are many women, and many minority voters who will not vote for him, and of course that is true. However, there are several that will, and the analysts are missing this imho - it is being underestimated, as is he.

    He is a wildcard, and that is why Obama has mentioned him two to three times by name. They are scared. David Axelrod acknowledged as much yesterday.
  • Posts: 1,631
    No, Trump's idea isn't a good one, but continuing to do virtually nothing about the border is an equally bad idea.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    No matter what the polls say right now, if it's Clinton vs. Trump, Trump will take it in a landslide. I'm sure of it.

    Apparently in the north east some union leaders (Dem's) are starting to panic because their members (including minorities) have started to show support for Trump.

    You are absolutely off on this. The opposite. He will not take any of the large, traditionally liberal states. He would have to take all of the 9 swing states (Romney took one, I don't think McCain took any). He won't get the hispanic vote, he won't get the black, when laid bare he won't get any sizable percentage traditional liberal votes, he will fall big with women. The numbers don't add up.

    I'll take a wager now.
    @Birdleson, Trump is defying expectations and redrawing the map. I think all past comparative analysis does not apply to him.

    Yes. the conventional wisdom is that there are many women, and many minority voters who will not vote for him, and of course that is true. However, there are several that will, and the analysts are missing this imho - it is being underestimated, as is he.

    He is a wildcard, and that is why Obama has mentioned him two to three times by name. They are scared. David Axelrod acknowledged as much yesterday.


    There are no set of number start I have seen that show him growing in popularity, quite the opposite. I don't think that pulse that everyone is raving about goes far beyond a white, blue collar, aging base. There are no present, historic, logical or otherwise statistics or polls that would even suggest that he is trending that way. Regularly getting %30 - 42% of the members of the smaller of two parties (in polls and notes), that are both smaller than independents now (or close to it) does not make that scenario likely at all. Maybe hillary has high negatives, but the percentage of voters who say they could not vote for Trump is well over %50. We can go back and forth and it's meaningless until; Nov., that's why I suggest an interesting, Boind appropriate wager.
    I'm not a betting man. However, I think there are a bunch of independents who will vote Trump if Bernie loses to Hillary, no matter how she finesses her policy positions.

    Polls mean nothing now as you say. However, only one candidate of the two we're discussing is a force of nature and has defied all electoral estimates so far, and it's not Hillary.

    This is how history is always made, and how punditry is made minced meat out of. It happened with Obama, and with Reagan before.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    And put him in a serious debate, with Hillary. This time not in front of a Republican audience, but in a neutral setting. Watch when foreign policy issues arise, and she is informed, prepared and sharp. HIs bluster and vague notions will not help him in that setting. She will rip him to pieces. The guy doesn't seem to have the slightest grasp on the history and current situations in the Middle East (not to mention Europe, S. America, etc.). When the race gets to that level such things will matter and become apparent.
    This I agree with. He will have to get acquainted with the detail rather quickly. However, I'm pretty sure he will be able to do that once the race narrows down. He's going to have to do it next week in fact, at the Repub debate. If he can't then he perhaps could be in trouble.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Completely different ball games.
    Yes, but that's how it always is in my view. Things never repeat in exactly the same manner.

    Look, I'm not advocating for the man necessarily, but he is definitely still being grossly underestimated. We will see this over the next couple of weeks imho.

    He is the anti-Obama, just like Reagan was the anti-Carter and Obama is the anti-Bush.
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