The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • chrisisall wrote: »
    Exactly what signs do we have to look upon to suggest that Trump has finally outlived his welcome?
    When FAUX news shoots at a 'Republican' you know a high up plug has been pulled.
    Not necessarily. Faux & Trump were on the outs once before & they made up. Besides, now that Ailes has floated away on his golden parachute, anything could happen over there & you'd never know where the order came from...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Exactly what signs do we have to look upon to suggest that Trump has finally outlived his welcome?
    When FAUX news shoots at a 'Republican' you know a high up plug has been pulled.
    Not necessarily. Faux & Trump were on the outs once before & they made up. Besides, now that Ailes has floated away on his golden parachute, anything could happen over there & you'd never know where the order came from...
    Someone connected, no doubt. Follow the $.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    His go to answer for doing anything ... a wall ... refuge in Syria ... etc.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    And on Assange ... personally, I found the comments of interest here
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    And on Assange ... personally, I found the comments of interest here
    There are hundreds of paid internet trolls working to derail dissent and obfuscate truth. It's a brave new world of spin.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Truth. Assange. That's a whole other issue.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Interesting. When Nixon was president ... in case he had wanted to start a nuclear strike ...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Interesting. When Nixon was president ... in case he had wanted to start a nuclear strike ...
    Wow, that's a new one to me!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Interesting. When Nixon was president ... in case he had wanted to start a nuclear strike ...
    Wow, that's a new one to me!

    I think the military and a lot of government high brass finally realized what happens when you give such extreme power to wage war to one man (Lyndon Johnson), and they didn't want a repeat of that administration's failures.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Folks, don't count the Trumpster out yet. If he gets serious about wanting the job rather than futzing about, there will be some anxious people out there.

    Any predictions based on last week's performance and the recent slew of polls are extremely premature. I expected he would put his foot in it and that the media would pile on, but they overplayed their hand. Anchors, publications and reporters have been exposed clearly now, and will be easier to read and game going forward.

    This 'death knell' has come a little too early in the general election campaign, which has just begun. The polls will likely tighten slightly in the next few weeks (during the Olympics) until the first debate, at which point I think there will be a 'breakout' for one candidate depending on how it goes. Beware the comeback kid part deux.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Nope. He's finished. He & the top guys have decided already.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    the top guys have decided already.
    They decided who they wanted some time ago, and it wasn't Trump, nor was it Sanders. That much has been quite clear.

    There's a small problem called the electorate, and they are very unpredictable and difficult to read 3 months out.

    So far Hillary has beaten Bernie and that wasn't against the odds, that's true.

    Let's see where this goes. So far it's been exactly as expected.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    The first debate is where the proper end begins. Trump can talk out of his ass all he wants in front of supporters who take his spoon feedings with open mouths, but when he's placed in a situation where he actually needs to show he has knowledge on the myriad of topics a president should know, the cracks will really start to form in his campaign.

    The best scenario at this point is to book Megyn Kelly as the moderator at the first debate, just as a nice middle finger to the man who thinks he's the expert on everything without having any actual knowledge base on anything relating to running a country. I'm not a Hillary supporter in the slightest, but at least the idea of her appearing in a debate doesn't make me crack up in embarrassment like I do when I think of Trump participating in one.

    He's going to be crushed when he can't just avoid questions or distract the question askers like he does normally in interviews. In a debate, especially a Kelly led one, they will keep pressing for clarification at every point he makes, and since Trump is so used to talking out the other end, I don't see him being successful at all when the bullshitting has no effect any longer. The only way he'd best Hillary, the person with actual experience in government and a White House cabinet position, is if he could have his whole team of fact checkers on stage with him, and he was allotted ten minutes after each question is asked to get the right answers and arguments from them all.

    Add to this how keen he seems to be to tell his fellow Republicans in high office to piss off following his acceptance of the GOP nomination (leading to those people distancing themselves from him in political support), and you have to wonder if he's just got a genetic disposition to being the king of the pricks. I'm baffled for other explanations at this point.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The conventional wisdom is that he is going to get his butt kicked royally at those debates. I mean royally.

    That is what makes everything so fascinating. After that first debate, this election could be over. Until then, this is just a big ratings play.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    bondjames wrote: »
    The conventional wisdom is that he is going to get his butt kicked royally at those debates. I mean royally.

    That is what makes everything so fascinating. After that first debate, this election could be over. Until then, this is just a big ratings play.

    Sadly, @bondjames, that's what it's always been. Debates are now advertised as boxing matches (and visually the promos look it spot-on) instead of real opportunities for people to appeal to the public. Of course I think that's part on the public consuming this garbage (and giving it impetus to continue), and on the people running for office, both groups who I feel are quite a downgrade from what has come before in this country.

    There's no great orators anymore, no truly outstanding men or women who can rally people out of the sheer passion of their voice, sans attacking others, sans spitting flame, sans any pretension or lies or slander. There used to be a certain class and sophistication in his this process ran. A feeling that the person running wasn't another species of animal that you couldn't connect to, but someone who could fight your fight and represent you and your concerns honorably and fairly. Someone who didn't have to pretend so badly to know what it was like to live rough or face the setbacks of human experience, and someone who didn't see fit to attack the other candidates, and instead spoke to their cause.

    I look around, searching for that kind of person, and I don't see them. Do you? Do any of us?
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 3,566

    I look around, searching for that kind of person, and I don't see them. Do you? Do any of us?

    Yeah, I do. His name is Barack Obama. Great orator, and yet obviously a human being who loves his wife & family, and has done his best for the American public despite some fairly substantial obstacles. You want to honor him for his service? Vote for the person he's endorsed.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, for me, the greatest thing about Obama's primary victory in 2008 wasn't the fact that he was black. It was the way he won it. Cleanly. With one hand behind his back. While his opponent (you know the one) was throwing dirt, mud and filth at him, he ducked, weaved and jabbed cleanly and with his gloves on, all the while respecting her as a 'likeable enough' person. That process, which I followed closely, told me a lot about him, and a lot about her.

    He has been a far from perfect president, but I agree that he has conducted himself with dignity, honour and respect. With very little if no scandal as well. That says something about him, and he should be respected for that.
    ----

    Oratory is to be respected. and I do respect it, but it's not enough.

    There has to be more detailed discussion of policy and issues. Unfortunately, there is too little of that, and too many gotcha moments. One reason for that is because the media is too concentrated and 'owned'. Another reason is because we, the public, have as you rightly note an ADHD attention span and a desire for sound bites and sensation.

    We see it even on this thread.

    There is a reason I don't use twitter. What can you really say of any worth in 140 characters?

    It's ironic that we have more 24 hr cable news channels today than ever before, and yet we have less debate and discussion of what's really important than ever before.
    ----

    My mother said something to me a few years back which stuck. "Why do you keep watching CNN?", she asked. "Well, because I'm interested in the news", I replied. "That's not news that you're watching", she said. "That's gossip." How true.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @bondjames, and it's only become harder too, because to get at the real news you have to wade through all those gossip topics, which usually amount to "XXX said XXX was unprofessional and bad at their job" and so on at times like these. Resorting to ad hominem tactics are always easier than debating policy with someone, though. Too easy.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Twitter is an excellent and wide ranging source of information that is linked; also extremely fast in getting info to the world. The 140 character limit is quite helpful. Majority on twitter seem to really want that limit to stay. (So click on the link for the full Telegraph article; lead is on his take on foreign policy regarding the treaty with Japan; but more info follows)

    A summary of the past week, in a way, regarding Trump:
  • @0Brady: the problem with trying to debate policy w/ Trump is, he doesn't really HAVE any policy to discuss. He'll be on multiple sides of most issues, and his supporters are okay with that. The only thing he's consistent on is stuff like The Wall (cue the chorus: "We don't need no education...")
  • And at the bottom of the article you link to, @Thunderfinger: "The source of this article is World Socialist Website." (Not that that's a bad thing...)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I know. I am no commie. Just want to shed some light on the less talked about connections here. Supporting the lesser of two or more evils is still supporting evil.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I know. I am no commie. Just want to shed some light on the less talked about connections here. Supporting the lesser of two or more evils is still supporting evil.
    Indeed. The Trumpster will have to temper his positions and start towing the line on big bad Putin (who is not cooperating on the West's strategy to contain/restrain the growth of China/India in Asia), or else he will have to contend with the entire MIC/Banking/MsM establishment against him, in addition to the well oiled 'crack' Clinton electoral machine.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 3,566
    I know. I am no commie. Just want to shed some light on the less talked about connections here. Supporting the lesser of two or more evils is still supporting evil.

    And by that criterion we should all abandon our internal combustion vehicles because after all, they do contribute to global warming. On one hand I appreciate the intent of those voicing a "still supporting evil" viewpoint...but on the other hand, total capitulation to that viewpoint leads to total effective paralysis based on theoretical judgments. I'll stick with this as my core belief: "the survival of the United States of America is a desirable outcome, even though the USA was formed through the genocide of the native American population and built on the backs of generations of slaves." Once we've stipulated that point, the only real question is, "Which of the two major candidates for the office of the Presidency is most likely to effect the survival and improvement of the USA over the next four years?" And at base, I think the only good Trump is interested in is the good of Trump The Brand, while Clinton has shown over a lifetime service to the people of the USA in a variety of functions that she actually cares in a fairly substantial fashion about the good of this country.

  • It occurs to me that in my statement above, I may have gotten a bit wordy. Let's simplify things: "the lesser of two evils" is a statement of moral absolutes. If you're not lily-white then you must be black. Unfortunately, we live in world of endless shades of grey. Things just aren't as simple as we might like them to be.

    Today is Saturday where I'm at, your mileage may vary. Tomorrow I'll attend a service in the house of worship of my choice, and in that venue maybe somebody will make a statement along the "lesser of two evils" line, and everybody will nod their heads and think, "Oh yes, most certainly." But today I'm living in the world of greys and I just don't have the luxury of that sort of moral superiority.

    Dismounting from the Soapbox now. Has everybody heard about the Cat in the Hat's campaign for President?
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Dismounting from the Soapbox now. Has everybody heard about the Cat in the Hat's campaign for President?

    At this point, he's probably got a damn good shot at a 70% approval rating, likely just because everybody looking at him will think they're on drugs.
  • @Agent007391:

    I do not know just what you mean
    If you'd like, I could play a song by Queen...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It occurs to me that in my statement above, I may have gotten a bit wordy. Let's simplify things: "the lesser of two evils" is a statement of moral absolutes. If you're not lily-white then you must be black. Unfortunately, we live in world of endless shades of grey. Things just aren't as simple as we might like them to be.

    Today is Saturday where I'm at, your mileage may vary. Tomorrow I'll attend a service in the house of worship of my choice, and in that venue maybe somebody will make a statement along the "lesser of two evils" line, and everybody will nod their heads and think, "Oh yes, most certainly." But today I'm living in the world of greys and I just don't have the luxury of that sort of moral superiority.

    Dismounting from the Soapbox now. Has everybody heard about the Cat in the Hat's campaign for President?

    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs, look at you, sounding like a noir detective. I'm with you though; as people around me make very binary choices, picking one extreme or another, I think to myself, "you all don't see the layers and complexities of the decisions we all make as humans, do you?" People want simple answers that make them rest easy at night (because opening your mind and actually thinking about how the world works easily drives you insane), but nothing is ever simple, and lines blur heavily between ideas of right and wrong, good and evil, etc.
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