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Comments
PTS: OP - One of my favourites.
Title track: OP - Though I do like WOTW
Titles: OP
Main villain: OP - Louis Jourdan was an awesome villain.
Main Bond Girl: TIE - Love both of them.
Henchman: OP - Gobinda, knife throwing twins. Good menacing stuff.
Plot: OP
Dialogue: OP
Score: OP - One of Barry's best imo
Settings: SP - India made to look like a paradise. Sorry, no.
Action: OP
Humour: OP
Cinematography: SP - Some stunning stuff.
Benign Bizarre: OP
Suspense: OP
Minor Characters: OP
Glamour: OP
Bond performance: OP - Although older, Sir Rog gives it his all in OP.
SP - 2
OP - 15
TIE - 1
You weren't expecting too much different from old Octobenny in this round surely.
;)
I second this! Always like waiting for the new round and it genuinely makes me rethink how I feel about the individual elements about my favourite film series.
Title Track: Spectre - All Time High is not a bad song in general, but it doesn't really fit the bill for a noteworthy title track. I'll admit history is wasted on me because the added meaning of it facing a rival Bond doesn't have much significance now.
Title Credits: Spectre - Octopussy is not much competition in this category, sporting one of the weaker title sequences.
Main Villain: Octopussy - Kamal Khan has so much to do about the plot and actually carries out a pretty sneaky plan. Blofeld is revealed fairly early, which I don't have a problem with, but they don't give him much to do and the plot they have him carrying out is just piggy backing off the loose storyline connection of the prior three films. I have to give the nod to a character who is engaged in his own plan.
Main Bond Girl: Octopussy - She is very authentic and the chemistry and tension are really obvious with Roger. The scene where she retreats to her bedroom after Bond refuses her offer is one of the best female lead scenes in the franchise.
Henchman: Spectre - Greatest hits: Hinx edition. Though, Octopussy doesn't have scrubs for henchmen, but no one quite as menacing as Hinx.
Plot: Octopussy - Aside from some of the superfluous elements of the story, it's a pretty good thriller. Spectre exhibits a more general story.
Dialogue: Octopussy - There is pretty good depth to some of the dialogue that goes beyond the overall light-spirited nature.
Score: Octopussy - Top three score by Barry in my opinion, a wealth of brilliant cues and motifs.
Settings: Octopussy - The different aspects of the culture come across so much more welcoming than the often filtered and nighttime locales in Spectre. I sound like a broken record on this one, but it really does diminish the adventure when we don't get to see them for what they really are.
Action: Spectre - Some honorable mentions like the PTS, buzz saw attack, the car chase and a few others for Octopussy at least, but the action in Spectre just feels a little more authentic to me.
Humor: Octopussy - I think the humor in Octopussy is generally more subtle or plays to the mood respectfully. Spectre probably has some little punchlines and gags beat in Octopussy, but I find a lot of it falls flat for me.
Cinematography: Spectre - What Spectre lacks for in some other visual and representative areas, it makes up for a bit in this department.
Benign Bizarre: Spectre - I'm going to swing this one in Spectre's favor this time. The gymnastics girls and the clown suit are just a bit too unnecessary for my liking, though it doesn't diminish my experience too much.
Suspense: Octopussy - This adventure doesn't lose much intrigued as it progresses. Job well done in that regard.
Minor Characters: Spectre - Mr. White and a good showing from Q overall put Spectre ahead in this category.
Glamour: Spectre - I like when Bond either taps into the human side or the caricature of the classic Bond image. Spectre mostly pulled it off in regards to the latter (though some bits were fumbled).
Bond Performance: Spectre - A pretty solid performance by Roger once again, keeping his character centered in a way that doesn't give up his credibility while also doing his thing. I give Craig a very narrow edge here because he puts in an admirable performance despite some misguided character direction at times and pulls it all together well enough (its a wide range of acting throughout the whole thing).
Spectre: 9
Octopussy: 9
It looks like I have a tie for the first time, which is a fair representation. Currently, I have them within 2 placements in my yet to be posted updated rankings.
PTS: SP
Title track: SP
Titles: SP
Main villain: SP
Main Bond Girl: OP
Henchman: SP
Plot: OP
Dialogue: OP
Score: OP
Settings: SP
Action: SP
Humour: SP
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: OP
Suspense: OP
Minor Characters: OP
Glamour: OP
Bond performance: SP
SP 10 - 8 OP
PTS: Tie
Title track: OP
Titles: Tie
Main villain: OP
Main Bond Girl: OP
Henchman: OP (I take the whole set of henchmen)
Plot: OP
Dialogue: OP
Score: OP
Settings: OP
Action: Tie (I don't like both: SP is boring most of the time whereas OP is often too silly)
Humour: Tie
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: Tie
Suspense: OP
Minor Characters: Tie
Glamour: Tie
Bond performance: Tie
SP 1 - 9 OP - Tie 8
Title track: SP
Titles: Tie
Main villain: OP
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: OP
Plot: OP
Dialogue: OP
Score: OP
Settings: OP
Action: SP
Humour: Tie
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: OP
Suspense: SP
Minor Characters: OP
Glamour: Tie
Bond performance: Tie
OP: 9
SP: 5
WITH 3 DRAWS
Not surprising really,OP is always in my top 10 and has a special place with me.
PTS: SP
Both are great, but OP is a little slow in the beginning. My view of the PTS of SP is beginning to decline, mainly due to the music and some of the CGI, but the tracking shot and the visceral thrill of the helicopter fight give SP the edge here.
Title track: SP
Comfortable win for SP. I used to love All Time High. Now I find it flat and boring and the lyrics are somewhat unintelligent.
Titles: SP
OP's titles are almost softcore porn, whereas SP's titles are almost tentacle porn. But SP's titles have class, imagery, beauty, and are very rewatchable. Kleinman's second best of the Craig era.
Main villain: OP
Close, since my view of SP Blofeld has gotten better. But I give it (just!) to Khan. What a suave and memorable villain.
Main Bond Girl: Tie
I couldn't give it either way. I quite like both Octopussy and Madeleine.
Henchman: SP
If the Mischka and Grischka were the main henchmen I'd give it to OP, but they're not.
Plot: OP
OP has a legitimately interesting plot. SP's is muddled and confused.
Dialogue: OP
This is a no-brainer. Very few interesting moments in SP's dialogue, whereas OP has great moments. The repartee between Bond, Octopussy and Khan at Octopussy's mansion is a good example. Brimming with classic Bond stuff.
Score: OP
I don't mind SP's score as most people do, but yes it does rehash a lot. OP is a bit repetitive and one of Barry's weakest efforts but it's lush and beautiful.
Settings: OP
Mainly for exotic India, but I don't mind Germany. SP had good locales, but London is a bit trite.
Action: OP
I feel like OP could defeat any other film in this department honestly. The thrilling PTS. The fun and exciting tuk-tuk chase. Roger Moore's best fight scene in the yo-yo saw. Exhilarating train sequences, a thrilling race to get to the bomb in time, and an aeroplane finale to boot. Great stuff. SP's good too but let down by the car chase and in some respects the plane chase.
Humour: OP
OP has great humorous dialogue. And however juvenile it is the boob zoom is classic Moore. SP tries. SP fails.
Cinematography: SP
What can I say about cinematography in Glen's era... apart from that it sort of sucks? OP does better than the other Glens but it's not great. SP's tracking shot is just WOW.
Benign Bizarre: OP
We got to see a lot of bizarre Indian culture. Once again I'm not sure this should be a category, I'm not sure of how it makes it a better film.
Suspense: OP
Dear lord, Germany was pure suspense and adrenaline. Who was not holding their breath as clown Bond defused that bomb with seconds to spare??? OP wins miles ahead of SP here, to the point that I don't understand how others could choose SP.
Minor Characters: OP
All top-class.
Glamour: SP
OP doesn't have much.
Bond performance: OP
Good ol' Roger.
11 OP - SP 6
TIE: 1
Title track: OP
Titles: SP
Main villain: OP
Main Bond Girl: OP
Henchman: OP
Plot: OP
Dialogue: OP
Score: OP
Settings: SP
Action: OP
Humour: OP
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: OP
Suspense: OP
Minor Characters: OP
Glamour: OP
Bond performance: OP
OP 15 - 3 SP
Title track: OP
Titles: SP
Main villain: SP
Main Bond Girl: OP
Henchman: SP
Plot: SP
Dialogue: OP
Score: OP
Settings: SP
Action: OP
Humour: OP
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: OP
Suspense: OP
Minor Characters: OP
Glamour: OP
Bond performance: OP
OP: 11
SP: 7
PTS: OP (Damn SP score)
Title track: Tie (both bad)
Titles: SP (Kleinman)
Main villain: OP (easy one)
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: OP (one of if not the best henchmen ensemble)
Plot: OP
Dialogue: OP (so many great lines)
Score: OP
Settings: SP
Action: OP
Humour: OP
Cinematography: SP (easy one)
Benign Bizarre: OP
Suspense: OP
Minor Characters: OP (easy)
Glamour: SP (glen's films are far from glamourous)
Bond performance: OP
OP 12
SP 5
Tie 1
Title track: OP
Titles: SP
Main villain: OP
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: SP
Plot: OP
Dialogue: OP
Score: OP
Settings: SP
Action: OP
Humour: OP
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: OP
Suspense: OP
Minor Characters: SP
Glamour: SP
Bond performance: SP
9-9
Surely it will beat Die Another Day.
Probably not the way things are going.
Title track: OP
Titles: TIE
Main villain: OP
Main Bond Girl: TIE
Henchman: SP
Plot: OP
Dialogue: OP
Score: OP
Settings: SP
Action: OP
Humour: TIE
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: SP
Suspense: OP
Minor Characters: OP
Glamour: SP
Bond performance: TIE
OP: 8
SP: 6
TIE: 4
Title track: OP
Titles: SP
Main villain: OP
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: SP
Plot: SP
Dialogue: SP
Score: OP
Settings: SP
Action: SP
Humour: OP
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: SP
Suspense: OP
Minor Characters: SP
Glamour: SP
Bond performance: SP
OP: 5
SP: 13
@IncompetentHenchman Is it fair to knock the OP soundtrack for repetition when it has essentially the same variety as OHMSS? I think that was a signature of Barry that some members here have convincing stated was used more a few decades ago to make films more memorable with the lack of home releases.
Title track: OP
Titles: SP
Main villain: OP
Main Bond Girl: SP (again close, yet despite having a backstory and great chemistry with Sir Rog...)
Henchman: SP
Plot: OP (Not even in the same ball park)
Dialogue: OP
Score: OP (please)
Settings: SP
Action: OP
Humour: SP
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: OP (I guess)
Suspense: OP (one of the most tense in Bondom, up against a limp finale)
Minor Characters: OP
Glamour: SP
Bond performance: OP (Possibly Sir Rog’s finest performance)
OP: 10
SP: 8
Title track: Tie - I used to quite like All Time High but recently it's gone downhill so ill give WOTW a tie here.
Titles: SP - The octopi projected onto the women are nice (and certainly better than them caressing naked Dan) but not much else.
Main villain: OP - Both Orlov and Kamal blow Bloberhauser out of the water. To have both of them is sheer indulgence.
Main Bond Girl: SP - Maud is definitely very MILFish but Lea a far better actress and better jugs.
Henchman: Tie - Both pretty good. Gobinda edges it for all the stuff he does in most of the film but Hinx pulls it level with the fight.
Plot: OP - Easy win.
Dialogue: OP - The auction and backgammon scene enough to take this on their own. Cracking stuff.
Score: OP - Not my favourite Barry by a long stretch but fortunately he's up against Tom.
Settings: OP - Exoticism of India mixed with Cold War Germany is a fantastic combo.
Action: OP - PTS and staggering train and plane stunts.
Humour: OP - Rog at the absolute peak of his powers throwing one liners out with aplomb. Yes I know I shouldn't laugh but 'Hiss off', 'Sit' and 'Keep you in curry for a few weeks won't it?' are brilliant and the Tarzan tell whilst appalling not enough to swing it in SP's favour.
Cinematography: SP - India really should look a lot better and Van Hoytema almost reaches the heights of Deakins so easy for SP to take this one.
Benign Bizarre: OP - Faberge eggs, octopi, sheeps head, circular saw blade, knife throwing twins. That'll do for me.
Suspense: OP - Piece. Of. Piss. Best bomb countdown in Bond history.
Minor Characters: SP - I do love Vijay but apart you have to give Jesper's cameo credit here.
Glamour: SP - Just prefer the European opulence on show to India which even if it is 5 star most of the time not poverty still can't hold a candle to Rome and posh mountaintop clinics.
Bond performance: OP - Yes Dan is closer to Fleming but Rog just hits it out of the park and I can't bring myself to penalise the quintessential Rog Bond performance.
OP: 11
SP: 5
Tie: 2
A comfortable win for OP and actually I'm surprised SP did as well as it did.
Title track: OP (I'm not a fan of Smith's song or Coolidge's but I find myself humming the silly, cheesiness of All Time High more often than I care to admit. It fits Roger Moore very well.)
Titles: SP (A decent one for SP. I'm not sure where Binder's decline came - perhaps around MR time but this one is pretty ordinary.)
Main villain: OP (Kamal and Orlov are great.)
Main Bond Girl: OP (Great build up to Octopussy - like a Blofeld or Bond reveal. She has great chemistry with Roger - far more than Sedoyux and Craig have.)
Henchman: SP (I really like Gobinda - but Hinx is a real physical threat. His fight with Bond is a highlight of SP for me - they build up to it well with revealing his prowess in the Spectre meeting, then the car chase, the snow chase so by the time you get to hand-to-hand combat I'm pumped for it. And his presence is always menacing.)
Plot: OP (Intriguing plot. Love the tracing from Faberge to auction house to Kamal to India and eventually Octopussy and Russia.)
Dialogue: OP (Kamal Khan and 007 on top form. The backgammon scene alone)
Score: OP (Barry doing some awesome work. '009 Gets The Knife and Gobinda Attacks' being a stand out. And I think Barry is unmatched by any other composer when rearranging a theme into a romantic score - does it so well in AVTAK as well.)
Settings: OP (I really like SP's settings. Particularly Rome, Mexico and Alps. But OP has the advantage of the unusual India as well as the Checkpoint Charlie. A divided Berlin is an excellent setting for a spy thriller. To quote M - 'Christ, I miss the Cold War!')
Action: SP (I really like OP'S action. But Spectre has it beat.)
Humour: SP (I like the comedic elements of Spectre. Octopussy like FYEO has a few howlers.)
Cinematography: SP (Some amazing work from Hoytema)
Benign Bizarre: OP (Yo-yo saw, chilled monkey brains, clowns, killer twins.)
Suspense: OP (One of the most suspenseful of the Bond films post OHMSS. Both overall as a plot and individually as isolated scenes - opening clown chase, yo-yo saw attack, train fight and culminating in the excellent bomb defusing.)
Minor Characters: SP (Both are a bit light on minor characters. Vijay is good, Mr White is better. And the Mi6 group of Moneypenny, M and especially Q are good in SP)
Glamour: OP (I love the glamour in SP. Real highlight of the movie. But I really like kamal khan's palace, Octopussy's floating palace and the exotic location of India. Also Roger Moore killing it in a white tux and Maud Adams oozes glamour.)
Bond performance: OP (I really like Craig's performance. But Moore's is good too. His dramatic work in the bomb countdown is excellent and held over a long period of time. But if nothing else I give him this victory for one moment alone... "Double sixes...fancy that." Absolutely cool.)
OP- 12
SP- 6
Just to be clear - I don't give out 'ties', just a personal preference - but SP was very close on a couple of these. Glamour, Settings and Title track especially - could have gone either way.
Octopussy really did better than I expected. I would actually rank OP and SP near each other - OP slightly ahead. The climax of OP is problematic for me because that film really ends with the bomb countdown and then we get the whole drawn out acrobatic attack on Kahn's palace followed by horse chase and plane fight. Far too long (even if the plane fight itself is good).
I've never been overly enamoured with OP but I have really enjoyed it the last couple of times I watched it. SP's third act makes things like 'plot' and 'suspense' almost automatic losses for me against many other Bond films (My least favourite third act since DAD)
No that's Temple of Doom. Easily done - all films set in India look the same to me too.
That was my joke ;-) Good spotting. I knew someone would get it. I always thought it interesting they were a year apart in release but Bond got there first.
Personally, I really like the cue in Gobinda Attacks/Palace Fight and the others as well. It's similar to He's Dangerous, but a more delicate arrangement. He's Dangerous is a more emphatic cue. I like those tracks almost equally. The part where the OP soundtrack stands out to me is the romantic theme. It's one of the best imo.
@Major_Boothroyd brings up a good point about how masterful Barry was at spinning the main theme into a romantic motif. That's a factor I've never considered when ranking the title songs. I don't know which way is more objective since some songs weren't written and produced by the composer. That should probably take down the overall soundtrack a notch anyway.
I also love when he checks his watch in the gorilla suit. Shoot me.
It beat DAF and tied TMWTGG and YOLT. I imagine it will beat AVTAK and DAD, but you never do know. I thought for sure it would at least beat MR.
Title track: OP (Anything is better than WOTW)
Titles: OP (I'm not a fan of flashbacks in the title sequences)
Main villain: OP (Not even close)
Main Bond Girl: SP ( I'll give her the slight edge)
Henchman: OP (No contest)
Plot: OP
Dialogue: OP (So many great and memorable lines in OP)
Score: OP
Settings: SP (I suppose)
Action: OP
Humour: OP
Cinematography: OP
Benign Bizarre: OP
Suspense: OP
Minor Characters: OP
Glamour: OP
Bond performance: OP
OP - 16
SP - 2
That sounds about right.
Yes, I figured you might as well call that a tie.