Spectre versus the field: Skyfall

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  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I prefer TND personally, but I think it will be close fight between it and SP.
    Me too, and I agree. But TND just has so much character & humour to it.... SP is a bit dry by comparison (though I love it too).

    So much character in TND???
  • Posts: 7,434
    In TND its Vincent Schiavelli who's the only decent character. He steals the movie with just one scene! Other than him the characters were weak. Wai Lin, Paris, the bloody awful Jack Wade, and of course Captain Hook, eh, I mean Eliot Carver!
  • Posts: 4,325
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    In TND its Vincent Schiavelli who's the only decent character. He steals the movie with just one scene! Other than him the characters were weak. Wai Lin, Paris, the bloody awful Jack Wade, and of course Captain Hook, eh, I mean Eliot Carver!

    But Wai Lin did kick ass!
  • Posts: 7,434
    But she was boring, and not very attractive, and she had no chemistry with Brossa! (Mind you Brossa had no chemistry with anyone!)
  • Posts: 4,325
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    But she was boring, and not very attractive, and she had no chemistry with Brossa! (Mind you Brossa had no chemistry with anyone!)

    I wouldn't say she was unattractive.
  • Posts: 19,339
    She wasn't unattractive at all..unlike some skinny little dimwit in TLD....
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 4,325
    barryt007 wrote: »
    She wasn't unattractive at all..unlike some skinny little dimwit in TLD....

    I hope you don't mean Kara ...
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I prefer TND personally, but I think it will be close fight between it and SP.
    Me too, and I agree. But TND just has so much character & humour to it.... SP is a bit dry by comparison (though I love it too).

    So much character in TND???
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    In TND its Vincent Schiavelli who's the only decent character. He steals the movie with just one scene! Other than him the characters were weak. Wai Lin, Paris, the bloody awful Jack Wade, and of course Captain Hook, eh, I mean Eliot Carver!

    I thought best character was Paris. Kaufman is pastiche.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    suavejmf wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I prefer TND personally, but I think it will be close fight between it and SP.
    Me too, and I agree. But TND just has so much character & humour to it.... SP is a bit dry by comparison (though I love it too).

    So much character in TND???
    I mean, the MOVIE has more character.
    :))
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I think TND is pretty weak overall now to be honest.

    There's plenty of action and fighting but little of it is particularly memorable or well done. I think Pryce, Yeoh and Schiavelli make the most out their thinly written roles but it all feels quite artificial and empty.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think TND is pretty weak overall now to be honest.

    There's plenty of action and fighting but little of it is particularly memorable or well done. I think Pryce, Yeoh and Schiavelli make the most out their thinly written roles but it all feels quite artificial and empty.
    +1. Entertaining enough, but easily one of the most 'by the numbers' entries in the canon.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    By the numbers in a good way.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think TND is pretty weak overall now to be honest.

    There's plenty of action and fighting but little of it is particularly memorable or well done. I think Pryce, Yeoh and Schiavelli make the most out their thinly written roles but it all feels quite artificial and empty.
    I must like 'empty' because a fast pace, clever dialogue & cool action seem to be all I want from a non-literate Bond movie. Like SP come to think of it...
    Look, they can't make REAL Bond movies anymore, not since Tim. I'll take what I can get now. Happily too.
    =D>
  • Posts: 19,339
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    She wasn't unattractive at all..unlike some skinny little dimwit in TLD....

    I hope you don't mean Kara ...
    I damn well do....
  • Posts: 4,325
    barryt007 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    She wasn't unattractive at all..unlike some skinny little dimwit in TLD....

    I hope you don't mean Kara ...
    I damn well do....

    Man, she was stunning.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    She wasn't unattractive at all..unlike some skinny little dimwit in TLD....

    I hope you don't mean Kara ...
    I damn well do....

    Man, she was stunning.

    Yeah, not a babe but a natural beauty for a change.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited November 2016 Posts: 2,722
    There are four constants in this world - death, taxes, @barryt007 hatred of Kara and @BondJasonBond006 disgust at SF.

    These are two, of many, defining characteristics of these two prolific, fine and valued posters - are there any other posters who have a dislike that helps identify them? I like these two because they're sustained and, especially in Barry's case, unusually specific. Many people don't rate SP or can't stand DAD - but I don't know if there is something that gets under my skin as much as these ones do for these posters.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    She wasn't unattractive at all..unlike some skinny little dimwit in TLD....

    I hope you don't mean Kara ...
    I damn well do....

    Man, she was stunning.

    Yeah, not a babe but a natural beauty for a change.

    She looks like she has the undernourished physique of an eight year old boy, She is, without a doubt, the most sexless Bond girl in the franchise's history.
    I hope Bond liked that restaurant in Karachi-- he was eating for two.
  • Posts: 4,325
    peter wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    She wasn't unattractive at all..unlike some skinny little dimwit in TLD....

    I hope you don't mean Kara ...
    I damn well do....

    Man, she was stunning.

    Yeah, not a babe but a natural beauty for a change.

    She looks like she has the undernourished physique of an eight year old boy, She is, without a doubt, the most sexless Bond girl in the franchise's history.
    I hope Bond liked that restaurant in Karachi-- he was eating for two.

    Man, not another Kara hater ... I admit she did look a lot better with longer hair in the screentests that she did, but still, don't get the Kara hatred, Maryam D'Abo was and is attractive.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    These are two, of many, defining characteristics of these two prolific, fine and valued posters - are there any other posters who have a dislike that helps identify them?

    Erm...I don't like Goldfinger? It's always ranked in the bottom half for me

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2016 Posts: 17,801
    peter wrote: »
    She looks like she has the undernourished physique of an eight year old boy, She is, without a doubt, the most sexless Bond girl in the franchise's history.
    I hope Bond liked that restaurant in Karachi-- he was eating for two.
    My only comment...
    2822b5e841d95bf9b9468e0ab9aaa973.jpg

    Get it. Look at it.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    w2bond wrote: »
    These are two, of many, defining characteristics of these two prolific, fine and valued posters - are there any other posters who have a dislike that helps identify them?

    Erm...I don't like Goldfinger? It's always ranked in the bottom half for me

    Goldfinger could best be described as the quintessential, definitive Bond film, the first of the series to set the necessities of the entire saga in motion. It is also one of the the best of the Bond movies, arguably the most suave and sophisticated, far superior to the Roger Moore era and those who followed in Connery's footsteps. It is the Bond ultimatum, so to speak.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    peter wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    She wasn't unattractive at all..unlike some skinny little dimwit in TLD....

    I hope you don't mean Kara ...
    I damn well do....

    Man, she was stunning.

    Yeah, not a babe but a natural beauty for a change.

    She looks like she has the undernourished physique of an eight year old boy, She is, without a doubt, the most sexless Bond girl in the franchise's history.
    I hope Bond liked that restaurant in Karachi-- he was eating for two.
    Ha ha. I'm afraid I must agree, and I think this was intentional, as it was around the AIDS epidemic etc. and they were trying to take Bond in a different direction. Really, all we had was that babe on the boat in the pretitles (who one member here knew personally).
  • Posts: 19,339
    She would have made a better Bond girl in that film.
  • After a round filled with surprises, including a strong showing from SP and a late rally from LTK, we come to final results of 265-219-2 in favor of Licence to Kill! LTK also carried the total games by a margin of 14-10-3, but it was a close match all the same.

    Now we take the leap into the Brosnan years, as Spectre faces off with GoldenEye!

    PTS: GE (one of my very favorites: a perfectly Bondian opening and rollicking mini-movie)
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE (It's the end of the Cold War in a titles sequence with half-naked women. What's not to like?)
    Main villain: GE (an infinitely more believable motivation and a much less hammy performance)
    Main Bond Girl: GE (they actually give Natalya the strength they so desperately want to give Madeleine)
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE (one of GE's greatest strengths, probably the most quotable modern Bond, except maybe CR)
    Score: SP (not great, but better)
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE (tank chase)
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE (Xenia strangles people with her thighs)
    Suspense: GE (the PTS alone gives it this)
    Minor Characters: GE (One of the movie's greatest strengths is its minor characters. Every one has a motive and a character; they're not just appendages to Bond.)
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance: GE (Brosnan is unsteady, but he has more to sink his teeth into)

    A thorough 16-2 stomping for Brosnan's first! Will it dominate the same way on your scorecards?

  • Posts: 1,631
    PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE (this one's very close, though)
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE (I find Serra's effort vastly underrated)
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE (there is none in SP, so this wins by default)
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance: SP

    GE - 16
    SP - 2

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    PTS: SP
    Title track: GE
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: SP (a very close one)
    Henchman: GE (another close one)
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: SP
    Settings: GE (incredibly close)
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP (incredibly close)

    SP - 7
    GE - 11
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    PTS: SP - Both have truly fantastic elements and weaknesses. I'll prefer SP's action slightly over GEs here.
    Title track: GE - Turner with a belter here. I enjoy WOTW, but GE takes it easily.
    Titles: GE - As dear as Binder is to my heart, this might be the best title sequence of them all. The symbolic imagery along with the classic title tropes makes this a classic.
    Main villain: GE - Sean Bean is brilliant and a unique element of having a former 00 double cross Bond.
    Main Bond Girl: GE - Neither rank high on my list, but I will take Natalya who is given more to do in her role.
    Henchman: GE - Xenia is a top 5 and Ouromov is just icing on the cake.
    Plot: GE - Best of the Brosnan plots. Again the former 00 angle works great here.
    Dialogue: GE - As @soundofthesinners said, very quotable dialgoue with the Zukovsky meeting scene being the standout. My friends and I will always quote Valentin in our daily conversations.
    Score: GE - Serra's oft-maligned score does have some strange choices, but Goldeneye Overture works well and he at least takes some chances as oppose to the frequently recycled score of SP.
    Settings: SP - GE has Monaco and uses Russia well, but SP takes advantage better of its globe trotting.
    Action: SP - GE has the advantage for the end action scene, but SP beats it narrowly thoughout the rest of the film.
    Humour: GE - For similar reasons as the dialogue. Very funny Bond.
    Cinematography: SP - Once again an area where SP excels over many of the 80s-90s Bonds.
    Benign Bizarre: GE - Xenia, Boris, Minnie Driver, GE easily here.
    Suspense: GE - End sequence fight between 006 and 007 is the deciding influencer.
    Minor Characters: GE - Best ensemble here Boris, Valentin, Mi6 regulars, etc.
    Glamour: SP - Only slightly. GE has glamour at the start, but SP has more of it dispersed throughout the film.
    Bond performance: GE - Brosnan's best performance. Many think he gets more comfortable throughout his tenure, but I believe he starts off at his finest here.

    14-4 GoldenEye victory. GE is one that has slipped steadily in my rankings in recent years, though it still holds a top 10 spot. By the categories though it does quite strongly.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    PTS: SP
    Title track: TIE
    Titles: TIE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: TIE
    Score: SP
    Settings: SP
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP- 11
    GE- 4
    TIE- 3
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    PTS: GE (A high point for SP - but GE is one of the few that trump it.)

    Title track: GE (Easy win for Tina Turner)

    Titles: GE (Even though I'm not crazy about the style - I love the story that the GE titles tell.)

    Main villain: GE (SP's Blofeld is a big problem for me so while Sean Bean isn't my favourite of the Bond villains - he's a good shadow version of 007 and his final hand-to-hand battle with Brosnan is great.)

    Main Bond Girl: GE (Natalya is one of the underrated leading women. Resourceful, smart, vulnerable, principled.)

    Henchman: GE (This is a tough split. Either of them are great. Hinx is a real threat, but I like the slow revelation of the insanity of Onatopp. From playful in the car chase, to cold in card game, to seductive assassin, to crazed psycho in the shooting of the workers. She's memorable and mad.)

    Plot: GE (SP's plot is another of my issues with the film. GE has a suspenseful plot, with a good build up to a great climax)

    Dialogue: GE (Close one - but I like Coltrane, Dench and even Brosnan's dialogue here. Maybe over time SP might claw this one back - but for the moment GE has more memorable lines.)

    Score: SP (Newman finally wins one!)

    Settings: SP (Great locations - wonderfully captured on film)

    Action: GE (The PTS, the tank chase, final fight.)

    Humour: GE (SP has a little less humour but gets it right. But Coltrane wins this one for me in GE. I like the black humour of Onatopp and Ourumov as well.)

    Cinematography: SP (Easy win for Hoytema)

    Benign Bizarre: SP (By default a little on this one. SP has the spectre meeting, Hinx's thumb-eye-ball killing, Blofeld's scar face, random kitties, and those creepy tentacle opening titles. Other than Onatopp's behaviour there isn't too much bizarre about GE.)

    Suspense: GE (Campbell excels at this. Very good suspense - especially in the opening and climax.)

    Minor Characters: GE (Dench's M, Desmond's Q, Coltrane, Ourumov - even Minnie Driver! GE wins this - but only just because of minus points for Alan Cumming's OTT Boris and Jack Wade - not a fan of his.)

    Glamour: SP (SP has this in spades. The train scene alone is glamorous as hell!)

    Bond performance: SP (Close one - but I really like Craig's performance.)

    GE - 12
    SP - 6

    GE is near top ten for me so SP did pretty well. And I think some of them are very, very close - Henchman, Minor Characters, Dialogue, Humour, PTS - SP does all these well for me and could have won them but I think on balance a 12-6 split is about right.

    The other thing with GE is that its climax is one of the better Bond finales - particularly for the Brosnan era. It does very well in suspense, action and spectacle.
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