Spectre versus the field: Skyfall

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    SP vs GE

    PTS: GE (the 1995 entry's pretitles are easily top 5 material for me. To this day, I'm blown away by that audacious jump, which is incredibly Bondian, and what follows. Alec's introduction followed by the confrontation with Ouromov is just pure class. It's slightly spoiled by the physics defying plunge to catch the plane, but is soon redeemed by Tina)
    Title track: GE (Tina's got some pipes on her, and gives us a classic Bono penned golden track for the ages oozing classic Bond attributes)
    Titles: GE (Love the cold war flavour).
    Main villain: GE (Sean Bean's Alec Trevalyn is easily the best villain of the Brosnan era, and one of the franchises most unique antagonists. He's young, a match for Bond, and he's got a personal chip on his shoulder. While this has become somewhat of a cliche these days, at the time it was a first, and Bean imbues Trevalyn with the sort of seething hatred that lifts the film)
    Main Bond Girl: GE (Scorupco's Natalya is one the most lovely women I've seen on film. Not only is she incredibly beautiful, but she's quite resourceful too, and eventually saves Bond's life atop the satellite dish. Her charisma & grit match her beauty, and I'm forever indebted to her for restoring my faith in Bond girls after lousy and whiny Pam and Kara.)
    Henchman: GE (Is there even a discussion worth having here? Famke's legendary Onatopp is one of the most memorable villains in the entire canon. Forgettable Hinx, sadly for him, isn't)
    Plot: GE (One is a lean, clean, post-cold war thriller with a revenge element. The other, sadly, is a convoluted soap opera.)
    Dialogue: GE (there has never been a more thorough beating in my opinion. GE boasts some of the most memorable dialogue from any Bond film. Full of camp and sarcasm, but highly memorable nevertheless. Exhibit A: "Lovely girl. Tastes like....like Strawberries. I wouldn't know. I would. mmmmmm.".)
    Score: GE (I don't give it to the earlier film just because Newman's effort is dull and boring. I love Serra's GE score. So shoot me.)
    Settings: GE (Monaco on its own is enough for the win imho. The locations are glamorous and classic as well.)
    Action: GE (Everything rocks. From the pretitles, to the car chase, to the tank chase to the fight atop the satellite. Brilliant stuff)
    Humour: GE (Superb stuff in the earlier film. Everyone is having fun and has great humorous lines, including Boris, Natalya, Alec, Bond, Oromov, Mishkin and Onatopp.)
    Cinematography: GE (The film is a welcome return to form after Glen's pedestrian cinematography efforts in the mid 80's - and it's bright and colourful in that Bondian technicolour way. SP doesn't hold a candle to its illustrious immediate predecessor, in contrast)
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE (the Severnaya facility break-in is tremendously tense, as is the fight atop the satellite and the pretitles. Even today, I'm on edge, despite having seen this entry so many times)
    Minor Characters: GE (Boris, Wade, Oromov, Valentin, Mishkin, Irina, Tanner - all brilliant)
    Glamour: GE (Monaco and Famke with the hat for the win)
    Bond performance: GE (I'm sorry to say - and I didn't think I'd ever say it - but I think Brosnan does a far better job in GE than Craig does in SP. If he had kept it up at this level without bringing his ridiculous pain face and tics into it in subsequent entries, he may have even been my third favourite Bond)

    GE: 18
    SP: 0

    GE for the royal flush. A sound and well deserved beating.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: GE
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance: GE

    GE - 18
    SP - 0 (I still love it.)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    PTS: Spectre
    Title Track: GoldenEye
    Titles: GoldenEye
    Main Villain: GoldenEye
    Main Bond Girl: Spectre
    Henchman: Spectre
    Plot: Spectre
    Dialogue: Spectre
    Score: GoldenEye
    Settings: Spectre
    Action: Spectre
    Humour: Spectre
    Cinematography: Spectre
    Benign Bizarre: Spectre
    Suspense: Spectre
    Minor Characters: Spectre
    Glamour: Spectre
    Bond Performance: Spectre

    Goldeneye: 4
    Spectre: 14
  • Taste is taste, but I don't rightly understand how one can give SP plot and tension over GE. Is Q's dramatic typing particularly suspenseful? The slapdash chase on the Thames? Does the "We were adopted brothers!" twist work better than 006 gone evil?
  • Posts: 3,336
    PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: GE
    Settings: SP
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: GE
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: GE

    GE - 15
    SP - 3
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited November 2016 Posts: 13,978
    Taste is taste, but I don't rightly understand how one can give SP plot and tension over GE. Is Q's dramatic typing particularly suspenseful? The slapdash chase on the Thames? Does the "We were adopted brothers!" twist work better than 006 gone evil?

    I loathe the adopted stepbrothers angle forced onto Spectre. That was bad. But GE (006 going evil, because of something that happened to his parents, when he was young, during WW2, clearly before he was born... wait, what...?) was sloppy.

    I called have called that a draw, but that isn't allowed in this game, is it?
  • Taste is taste, but I don't rightly understand how one can give SP plot and tension over GE. Is Q's dramatic typing particularly suspenseful? The slapdash chase on the Thames? Does the "We were adopted brothers!" twist work better than 006 gone evil?

    I loathe the adopted stepbrothers angle forced onto Spectre. That was bad. But GE (006 going evil, because of something that happened to his parents, when he was young, during WW2, clearly before he was born... wait, what...?) was sloppy.

    I called have called that a draw, but that isn't allowed in this game, is it?

    Draws are entirely allowed, we generally get a couple per round.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited November 2016 Posts: 7,314
    PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: GE
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance: GE

    GE 18
    SP 0

    The score says it all, so no explanations were really needed this time around. I was trying to be as fair as humanly possible. I certainly don't think GE is perfect, but it does match up extremely well vs. SP in these head to head categories.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    GE (my No. 5) vs. SP (my No. 22)

    PTS: GE (even though SP is not bad either)
    Title track: GE (slightly better)
    Titles: GE (my favourite)
    Main villain: GE (much better)
    Main Bond Girl: GE (close but I think that Natalya has a much better back story)
    Henchman: GE (no question for me)
    Plot: GE (again no question: GE manages to combine the revenge story and the side plot much better)
    Dialogue: GE (much better)
    Score: SP (I don't really like these 90s sounds)
    Settings: GE (much more interesting locations instead of pointless globe trotting, GE also brought in some new locations whereas SP mainly copied from older films)
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP (even though GE has some great shots, too)
    Benign Bizarre: GE (for Xenia alone)
    Suspense: GE (no question, the reveal at the grave yard is more suspensefull than SP)
    Minor Characters: GE (even though SP is not bad here)
    Glamour: SP (I don't find GE to be very glamorous except for the Monte Carlo Casino scene)
    Bond performance: GE (even though I somehow enjoyed Craig's performance in SP)

    GE 15
    SP 3
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: GE
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance: GE

    GE 18
    SP 0
  • Posts: 4,325
    PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance: SP

    GE - 16
    SP - 2
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    PTS: SP
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: SP
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP- 16
    GE- 2
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2016 Posts: 17,801
    I don't know what to expect here...
    PTS: SP
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance: GE

    GE- 13
    SP- 5


    ?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    And the pts, @chrisisall?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    And the pts, @chrisisall?
    Opps. Fixed. Funny it came out that differently as they're right next to each other on my ranking.
  • Posts: 11,189
    PTS: SP
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: SP
    Action: GE
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    GE-10
    SP - 8
  • Posts: 4,044
    PTS: SP
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: GE
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP - 10
    GE - 8
  • PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance: GE

    GE 17
    SP 1
  • PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance: GE

    GE 16
    SP 2
  • Posts: 12,474
    PTS: GE (Two of the best in the whole series; close win for GE)
    Title track: GE (Not crazy about either; slightly prefer GE's)
    Titles: SP (GE has decent titles, but SP's are some of the greatest)
    Main villain: GE (I think Waltz's Blofeld is underrated, but Alec is still definitely better)
    Main Bond Girl: GE (Madeleine is alright. Natalya is one of my favorites in the series)
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: SP
    Action: GE (Both have some very good action scenes. PTS and finale win it out for GE though)
    Humour: SP (I'll give this one to SP. Both are pretty good in this department though)
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance: GE (This one's a tossup. Both are very good Bond performances, but Brosnan's GE performance has really grown on me more and more, so I'll give it the edge)

    GE - 13
    SP - 5
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    PTS: SP (by a fraction)
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE (both superb and highly evocative. GE is my favourite title sequence next to CR though.)
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: SP
    Settings: SP
    Action: GE
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond Performance: TIE (Brosnan was great in GE and even better in TND before he became overshadowed by bad plotting and computer effects, Craig was uber cool in SP.)

    GE - 11
    SP - 5
    Tie - 1

  • Posts: 9,847
    A comment I want to make and I feel here it would be appropriate I always felt the brother angle originated here and to be honest a lot of how Trevelyan acts is like almost an annoyed older brother. In fact I wonder if that plot point of Spectre bothers me less because Goldeneye conditioned me to the idea
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,016
    PTS: Tie. Both excellent.
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: Tie
    Score: SP
    Settings: GE
    Action: SP. Very close but that train fight is just so good!
    Humour: GE. Although Jack Wade is just lame
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance SP. Brosnan is good in it but I just love Craig as Bond.

    GE - 11
    SP - 5
    Tie - 2
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: SP
    Settings: GE
    Action: SP
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    GE 10/ SP 8
  • Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: SP
    Settings: GE
    Action: SP
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    GE 10/ SP 8

    Almost identical to my rankings.

    The only thing different in mine was the score.
  • Posts: 19,339
    PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: SP
    Settings: GE
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    GE 9/ SP 9 ....GE started well but SP came back at the end..fair result.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    GE and SP are equally brilliant.
    Both prime examples what a Bond film should be like.
    Therefore SP 9, GE 9.
  • GE and SP are equally brilliant.
    Both prime examples what a Bond film should be like.
    Therefore SP 9, GE 9.

    Not gonna actually post the categories?
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    PTS: SP (only if for the physics bending skydive)
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE (one of the best in Bondom)
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE (those eyes can’t save you this time Lea)
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP (despite GE’s oft superb it is sunk by Boris. “Slugheads” indeed)
    Score: SP
    Settings: GE (Interesting to see Bond in Russia)
    Action: GE
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    18
    GE: 8
    SP: 10

    Close but a deserved victory for SP.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 1,263
    PTS: GoldenEye - Brilliant visualization on the ushering in of a new era.
    Title Track: GoldenEye - One of my favorites.
    Title Credits: GoldenEye - Elaborately planned with the destruction of the Soviet monuments.
    Main Villain: GoldenEye - This was back when personal motive still meant a diabolical scheme.
    Main Bond Girl: GoldenEye - A three-dimensional character with sufficient backstory to make her dialogue and performance meaningful.
    Henchman: GoldenEye - Hinx is more intimidating, but Onatopp is much more immersive and has outstanding interactions with Pierce.
    Plot: GoldenEye - This one isn't even close.
    Dialogue: GoldenEye - The script is really well crafted, more than the performances.
    Score: Spectre - Going to give it to Newman here. I'm not a Serra hater, but after the PTS his score wanes. Newman's efforts are a courtesy to the film.
    Settings: GoldenEye - The first time it's actually staged in Russia after the Cold War and the Caribbean make this one-sided.
    Action: GoldenEye - The action of GoldenEye is one of its strong points, boasting the PTS, Statue Graveyard, Archives, St. Petersburg, the jungle, and the finale.
    Humor: GoldenEye - This category is pretty close because Pierce didn't have his feet firmly planted in the role yet, but there are some great quips all throughout that suit his style.
    Cinematography: Spectre - GoldenEye has some good camera work, but I wouldn't put it on the level with Spectre entirely.
    Benign Bizarre: Spectre - There is a lot more bizarre in Spectre that I can't reasonably pick GoldenEye in line with my giving this category to the preferred film.
    Suspense: GoldenEye - Even though you expect most of the events in GoldenEye, they lay them out in a meaningful way. I'm particularly thinking about the way Bond learns of Trevenlyan's past and their encounter in the second act of the film.
    Minor Characters: GoldenEye - Ourumov, Zukovsky, Judi Dench's M... need I say more.
    Glamor: GoldenEye - This is one of those few films for me where I really feel like Bond plays the life of luxury. I feel sorry for all the people who can't get on board with Pierce because the manner in which he displays his ego is one that elevates Bond as a character for modern times. Craig is much more talented at specificity and connecting, but the naturalness that Pierce brought to the role was wonderful (and I know he states that he felt uncomfortable during the filming of certain moments, but it hardly shows).
    Bond Performance: GoldenEye - Probably not Pierce's best performance (I personally prefer TND), but a very good one where he has more depth of character to explore - even if he does not go all the way with it.

    GoldenEye: 15
    Spectre: 3

    This marks a new largest spread for me. I really don't dislike Spectre as much as a 15-3 would indicate, but the components of GoldenEye are artfully done for the most part. There is a reason why it gets thrown in to "the best of Bond marathons" on television after the likes of DN, FRWL, GF, etc.
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