Spectre versus the field: Skyfall

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  • Any final entries?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: GE
    Bond performance: GE

    GE wins, 17-1.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    This will be interesting as I don't really care for either entries...

    PTS: GE
    Title track: GE
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: SP
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: GE

    GE-14
    SP- 4
  • Posts: 3,336
    Time for TND?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I look forward to the SP/TND battle. Both films are ranked closely on my list, and I see similarities in many ways between them, flaws included.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Spectre versus GoldenEye

    PTS: GE
    Title track: SP
    Titles: GE
    Main villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: GE
    Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: SP
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: GE

    GE- 12
    SP- 6


    Well I must say I'm pleasantly surprised by this outcome. I thought it would be a Spectre win, but seems GoldenEye has easily won the match.

  • 18 - 0 Goldeneye
  • After an entertaining but certainly one-sided round, GoldenEye prevails by a margin of 440-146-7, winning the games as well by a margin of 26-3-2. Spectre will almost certainly fare better against Brosnan's second entry Tomorrow Never Dies. With that in mind, let's see how it does on mine...

    PTS: SP (though I have a fondness for TND)
    Title track: SP (not that either is particularly inspiring)
    Titles: SP (I...guess?)
    Main villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: SP (at least they attempt to give Madeleine some depth)
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND (no, Carver doesn't want to start World War III for ratings)
    Dialogue: TND (cuckoo, fuck you)
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: TND (it certainly has a lot of it!)
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: TND (for Kaufmann)
    Suspense: TND
    Minor Characters: SP (splitting the Kaufmann difference, and crediting Mr. White)
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: TND (Brosnan is pure cool here, and nails both the romance with Paris and the scene with Dr. Kaufmann)

    SP actually manages to scrape a 10-8, even though I have TND a couple spots above it on the Bond rankings. What will your scores be?
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited December 2016 Posts: 2,722
    PTS: SP (One of SP's highlights. TND's feels very generic)

    Title track: TND (Sheryl Crow doesn't have the finest voice but it does feel Bondian. I much prefer 'Surrender'. But I'm not a fan of SP's)

    Titles: SP (Despite the title track - SP wins this. Intriguing stuff.)

    Main villain: TND (This is a difficult one. I'm really torn. Blofeld is not well realised at all. He begins so well and then goes downhill rapidly. So I think he disappoints me more because it's Waltz and the character of Blofeld and I was expecting something whereas I don't with Carver. But there is something about Pryce chewing scenery endlessly - that makes his performance all appear at the same pitch. On another day - Blofeld would win this but I'm giving this to Carver today.)

    Main Bond Girl: TND (I like Michelle Yeoh - I don't think she has great chemistry with Brosnan - but I believe character and she kick ass.)

    Henchman: SP (Easy win for Hinx)

    Plot: TND (Mainly because SP's plot is a big issue for me. TND's is standard Bond.)

    Dialogue: SP (Aside from Blofeld's dialogue the SP dialogue has some really great moments. TND's is ok - but has some groaners.)

    Score: TND (Love Arnold's work here - my favourite of his after CR and QoS. And Surrender should have been the title song!)

    Settings: SP (Another easy win for SP)

    Action: TND (TND is almost relentless action and does it pretty well.)

    Humour: SP (TND's scene with Kaufman is a good one but other than that the humour is often irritating. SP's humour is enjoyable.)

    Cinematography: SP (Easy win for SP)

    Benign Bizarre: TND (Kaufman's scene really stands out. One of the more unusual Brosnan era scenes considering how safe his era played it.)

    Suspense: TND (SP's lack of suspense is a big problem for me.)

    Minor Characters: SP (Mr White and Q win this. I like Kaufman and everybody else is fairly bland)

    Glamour: SP (Another strong point for SP)

    Bond performance: SP (I'm giving this one to Craig. I like his performance in SP.)

    SP = 10
    TND = 8

    Close as you can get. Overall I prefer SP to TND. But many of these individual categories could go either way. On another day - TND could have won. But these are near each other in my rankings so feels right. But SP's wins here are almost all easy, clear wins where as many of TND's aren't. TND doesn't have as much ambition as SP - but SP fails to realise many of its ambitions - and so I think it disappoints me more whereas TND delivers on it's comparatively limited aspirations.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Spectre versus Tomorrow Never Dies

    PTS: SP
    Title track: SP
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: TND
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP :14
    TND : 4

    A complete reversal of GE. Strange as I used to prefer TND much more than GE in years gone by. An easy win this time for Spectre.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Spectre versus Tomorrow Never Dies

    PTS: TND (SP helicopters look too fake)
    Title track: TND (neither are good, too bad Surrender got shoved to the end)
    Titles: TND
    Main villain: TND (love the hammy portrayal. Waltz is good but wasted. Do they really need to copy the scar from YOLT?)
    Main Bond Girl: Tie (madeleine is far hotter but neither are good characters)
    Henchman: Stamper. Apart from the fight Hinx who isn't even named is a nothing character)
    Plot: TND (easy)
    Dialogue: SP (easy)
    Score: TND (no contest)
    Settings: SP
    Action: TND
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: TND (Kaufman)
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: TND. Brosnan is cool. Craig is good but doesn't have much to do)

    TND : 10
    SP : 7
    Tie : 1

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    PTS: TND
    Title track: Tie (Both are pretty weak.)
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND
    Humour: TND
    Cinematography: TND
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamour: TND
    Bond performance: TND

    TND -12
    SP - 5
    Tie - 1
  • Posts: 4,325
    PTS: SP
    Title track: SP
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Henchman: TND
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: TND
    Action: TND
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamour: TND
    Bond performance: SP

    SP - 9
    TND - 9

  • edited December 2016 Posts: 19,339
    Spectre versus Tomorrow Never Dies

    PTS: TND
    Title track: SP
    Titles: TND
    Main villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: TND
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: TND (Admiral Roebuck,Dr Kaufmann !!)
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP : 11
    TND : 7
    ....I thought it would be closer than that,but I suppose the 2nd half of TND is not at all good.
  • Posts: 3,336
    Spectre versus Tomorrow Never Dies

    PTS: SP
    Title track: TND
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: TND
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: TND
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    12 - 6 to SP
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Spectre (My No. 22) versus Tomorrow Never Dies (My No. 21)

    PTS: SP
    Title track: TND
    Titles: TND
    Main villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: Tie
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: Tie
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: Tie
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: Tie
    Suspense: TND
    Minor Characters: TND (Kaufmann is great)
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP


    SP: 7
    tnd: 7
    Tie: 4
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    SP VS TND

    PTS: SP
    Title track: SP
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: TND
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP: 15
    TND :3

    The first half of TND worked for me, the second half is loud and messy.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    PTS: TND
    Title track: TND
    Titles: TND
    Main villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: TND
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: TND
    Humour: TND
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: TND

    SP: 6
    TND :12
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    This will be a very close one, I'd say. Some that I can't decide on, but plenty that could have went another way, another day.

    Spectre vs Tomorrow Never Dies

    PTS: Tie (Can't choose. Both great.)
    Title track: TND (They're both woeful songs but TND is less woeful)
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Henchman: TND (Stamper is less memorable, but he at least had clear motivations)
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TND (Easiest choice of the lot)
    Settings: SP
    Action: TND (Hard pressed to find many films in the series to beat TND here)
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: TND (Kaufman alone wins this)
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: Tie (both very comfortable performances from Craig and Brosnan, with the latter giving the best of his four films)

    SP : 9
    TND : 7
    Tie: 2

    I hold TND up higher than Spectre overall, but this was still a close result.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    PTS: SP
    Title track: TND
    Titles: TND
    Main villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: TND
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: TND
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: TND

    SP: 8
    TND :10
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    PTS: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Title track: Tomorrow Never Dies (Though 'Surrender' is better)
    Titles: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Main villain: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Main Bond Girl: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Henchman: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Plot: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Dialogue: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Score: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Settings: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Action: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Humour: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Cinematography: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Benign Bizarre: Spectre
    Suspense: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Minor Characters: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Glamour: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Bond performance: Tomorrow Never Dies

    Tomorrow Never Dies: 17
    Spectre: 1
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    SP vs TND

    PTS: TND (Not even close. TND has easily one of the best PTS in the entire 24 film official canon. Still as magnificent today as the first day I saw it)
    Title track: TND (I'm a huge fan of Crow's title track and much prefer it to the touted Surrender. Smith's sap can't compete)
    Titles: TND (Love it. Modern and classy, right from the breaking glass from the jet's propulsion at the beginning).
    Main villain: TND (A clear beating here. Pryce's Elliot Carver is a megalomaniac in the classic mold. Charismatic and slightly 'mad', he completely overshadows the unmemorable and slightly derivative Ernst from the latest effort)
    Main Bond Girl: SP (I don't like Seydoux's Swann, but she is more appealing than kung fu girl Yeoh. Strangely, in both cases the lead actresses have no chemistry with the Bond actor. None whatsoever)
    Henchman: TND (Gotz Otto's Stamper is a beast of a man, and although he's derivative of others, he has far more to do than the completely forgettable Hinx, who has an eye gouge, a fight and a boring car chase to remember....or is that forget)
    Plot: TND (While woefully derivative of some classics like YOLT & TSWLM, it's quite prescient given the 'fake news' garbage that's going around these days, and far more interesting than 'brotherly love and hate')
    Dialogue: TND (The earlier film has some very memorable lines. The latest effort doesn't. As an example "The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success.").
    Score: TND (Much as I dislike Arnold, and believe me I do, this is his best effort from the Brosnan era and is quite memorable despite overuse of Bond theme)
    Settings: TND (I remember the settings and they are all quite beautifully filmed)
    Action: TND (This film is one of the best in the entire series in this respect, although the hand to hand combat is pathetic)
    Humour: TND (Some superb throwaway lines in the earlier film."They'll print anything these days".)
    Cinematography: SP (despite the piss colouring, Hoyte frames the shots beautifully)
    Benign Bizarre: TND (for Kaufmann alone)
    Suspense: TND (While it's more action oriented than suspense focused, Spottiswoode builds the tension nicely)
    Minor Characters: TND (Paris, Gupta, Wade, Kaufmann, Admiral Roebuck, Professor Inga Bergstrom all trump White, who is the only memorable supporting character in SP)
    Glamour: TND (The Carver party is classy, as is Paris' outfits)
    Bond performance: TND (It's pretty close between these two. I'm not one who thinks Brosnan was great in TND, but he certainly was excellent in the earlier half until the end of Hamburg. That alone is more than enough for the win. This is the 2nd film in which I've thought Brosnan did a better job than Craig in SP.)

    TND: 16
    SP: 2

    TND for a surprisingly strong (given both films are closely ranked in my list) win. SP is likely to deliver a complete thrashing to the next entry however.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Don't bank on it...I like TWINE !!
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    PTS: TND (close, but I really dig TND’s)
    Title track: TND
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: TND (anything is better than fosterbrothergate. Even Shf. Pepper)
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TND
    Settings:  SP (both reused locations, but SP has the slight edge)
    Action: TND (there is an enough of it!)
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography:  SP
    Benign Bizarre: TND (“for Kaufmann!)
    Suspense: TND ( the Devonshire sequence was rather tense)
    Minor Characters: SP (Mr. White to the rescue! Although I do like the Danish teacher...)
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP (Mr. Brosnan was very good too)

    Tomorrow Never Dies: 8
    Spectre: 10

    Again close, but that reflects my rankings.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    @w2Bond, in what way does the SP helicopter look fake?

    PTS: SP
    Title track: TND
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score:TND
    Settings:SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography:  SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    Tomorrow Never Dies: 2
    Spectre: 16



  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    SP in every category bar score.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    PTS: SP/TND
    Title track: SP/TND
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score:TND
    Settings:SP
    Action: TND
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: TND
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP: 12
    TND: 4

    TIES: 2
  • Posts: 4,044


    PTS: SP
    Title track: TND
    Titles: TND
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: TND
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP: 14
    TND: 4

  • PTS: SP
    Title track: SP
    Titles: TND
    Main villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: Tie
    Humour: TND
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: Tie
    Suspense: TND
    Minor Characters: TND
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: TND

    SP: 7
    TND: 9
    Tie: 2
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2016 Posts: 17,801

    PTS: TND
    Title track: TND
    Titles: TND
    Main villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: TND
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: TND
    Humour: TND
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: TIE

    SP :8
    TND :11

    I expected it to be close...

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