Spectre versus the field: Skyfall

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  • Posts: 3,336
    PTS: SP
    Title Track: SP
    Title Credits: SP
    Main Villain: DAD (Oh, look it's parachutes for the both of us, woops not anymore)
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: DAD
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humor: DAD
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: DAD
    Suspense: DAD
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: DAD
    Bond Performance: SP

    DAD 6
    SP 12
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited January 2017 Posts: 2,722
    PTS: SP (Highlight of SP. I find DAD's PTS kind of generic - always mixes in with TND's for me.)

    Title Track: SP (DAD's is the absolute pits.)

    Title Credits: DAD (I'm growing to like SP's but DAD's is the best of the Brosnan era - and I like the story they tell.)

    Main Villain: SP (Even though the way they handle Blofeld is probably my biggest issue with SP - he's much better than Graves. Stephens hams it up to a Elliot Carver level of frothy-mouthed mania - and the scriptwriters do him no favours as they give him the lion's share of awful lines. At least Blofeld has one strong scene in the Spectre meeting. Graves has none.)

    Main Bond Girl: SP (Swann is a decent if unremarkable lead Bond girl. Jinx is terrible and Berry poor. Her delivery is unconvincing and cheesy. As much as I was just dissing Stephens a.) he's a better actor than Berry and b.) at least he commits to his performance.)

    Henchman: SP (Hinx by a long way)

    Plot: SP (Another of SP's issues - but still far better than the stupidity of DNA therapy and the ineffectiveness of Mi6 in all facets of identifying the threat of a Graves magical appearance, Miranda Frost's history of knowing the villain. It's an avalanche of plot holes.)

    Dialogue: SP (DAD has the worst dialogue of the series. And it is poorly delivered.)

    Score: DAD (SP's is bland, while this isn't one of Arnold's better Bond scores it still has its moments.)

    Settings: SP (I like the locations in DAD especially Cuba (even if it's poorly used) and Iceland - but I like Rome, Alps and Mexico City better.)

    Action: SP (SP doesn't have a lot of action - but it does it better. DAD's is hampered by speed ramp and dodgy CGI.)

    Humor: SP (I like SP's humour. Some of the best of the Craig era. DAD's is horrific. See any awfully written and delivered euphemistic exchange between Bond and almost any female character in this film to witness it.)

    Cinematography: SP (By some distance.)

    Benign Bizarre: DAD (DNA therapy, diamonds in the face, scorpion torture. Certainly has weirdness attached to it.)

    Suspense: SP (Another of my issues with SP is lack of tension across the narrative. But individual scenes possess it. The suspense in the Hinx fight, PTS and Spectre meeting leap to mind far quicker than anything in DAD.)

    Minor Characters: SP (Mr White and Q beat Madonna and Q.)

    Glamour: SP (I love the glamour of the train sequence or the costumes at the Day of the Dead festival. Or even the car coming to pick them up at the station like it's a dusty, desert scene from The English Patient.)

    Bond Performance: SP (I like Craig's performance in SP. Probably my least favourite Pierce performance. His scene with Judi Dench when he's released and behind the glass is a perfect example. He has a broad Irish accent and it isn't convincing at all. He has zero chemistry with Berry. Although I do like the scene with Q much better than with him in TWINE.)

    SP: 15
    DAD: 3


    Feels about right. The films are from different galaxies - But both have limp third acts and SP's highs are much higher than DAD's.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    PTS: SP
    Title Track: DAD (If SP's was sung by a female I probably would have gone with it)

    First time I heard it, I thought it was.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,345
    =))
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited January 2017 Posts: 16,345
    Delete duplicate post.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    SP vs DAD

    PTS: DAD (it's close. I love the 'tracking shot' but can't stand the copter fight in SP. I love the surf and Moon kicking in his poor psychiatrist in the bag in DAD. The hovercraft chase is awful though, but the earlier part is good enough for the win here)
    Title track: DAD (it really wasn't close for me. Mads screeching is still more tolerable to my ear drums than Smith's sickening high pitched whining.)
    Titles: SP (I can't remember DAD's, so I'll have to go with Octopus porn).
    Main villain: DAD (Stephens' Gustav Graves is absolutely hilarious)
    Main Bond Girl: DAD (Halle is so soo good, even when she's bad. Lea is just dull)
    Henchman: SP (I can't stand Hinx as a character, but his fight with Bond is outstanding and far superior to anything Zao dishes up)
    Plot: DAD (I have a penchant for gene therapy and the prospect of some tension with Korea in the next four years may make DAD prescient)
    Dialogue: DAD (Again, it's a case of it being so bad that it's actually good. Better than being forgettable, which the latest effort most certainly is).
    Score: SP (Newman's work may be a rehash, but it's still far better than the 2nd worst score dished up by Arnold)
    Settings: SP (Both feature a lot of obvious rubbish CGI work, including Morocco in SP & Hong Kong in DAD, but the latest film is more memorable)
    Action: DAD (sound thrashing here. So many more memorable sequences in the earlier film, not least the car chase and the sword fight)
    Humour: DAD (even though we're laughing at it most of the time at least we're laughing, rather than shaking our heads in disbelief at the train wreck we're witnessing)
    Cinematography: SP (Hoyte's lensing is excellent despite piss colouring)
    Benign Bizarre: SP (just such a strange film)
    Suspense: DAD (some wonderful scenes, including Bond's torture early on, and the sword fight)
    Minor Characters: DAD (so many more interesting & charismatic characters in the earlier film, most notably the lovely Miranda Frost.)
    Glamour: DAD (Halle is outstanding in that dress at the Ice Palace. Just mute her and you'll love it)
    Bond performance: DAD (arguably Brosnan's finest hour as Bond, even though I prefer GE personally. It's a shame he used this film to showcase his talents, and after 7 long years. Definitely redemption of sorts after the disgraceful performance he put in during TWINE)

    DAD: 13
    SP: 5

    This pretty much mirrors how I feel about the two efforts at the moment.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,061
    Spectre versus Die Another Day

    PTS: SP
    Title Track: SP
    Title Credits: SP
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: DAD
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: DAD
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: DAD
    Bond Performance: SP


    SP : 15
    DAD : 3

    Though DAD has risen in my rankings, it's still not able to beat SP in many of these ratings.
    No real surprise there though.

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,590
    Spectre versus Die Another Day

    PTS: SP
    Title Track: SP
    Title Credits: TIE
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: DAD (Arnold's best, IMO)
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: SP (Though DAD is underrated on this front. Speed ramping falls under editing, not cinematography)
    Benign Bizarre: DAD
    Suspense: TIE
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: TIE


    SP: 13
    DAD: 2
    TIE: 3
  • Posts: 6,432
    Spectre versus Die Another Day

    PTS: DAD
    Title Track: Both awful TIE
    Title Credits: Both awful TIE
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: DAD
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humor: DAD
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: DAD


    SP: 12
    DAD: 4
    TIE: 2
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,061
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Welcome back @Benny .

    Thanks mate. Good to be back.

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Spectre #22 versus Die Another Day #24

    PTS: SP
    Title Track: SP (DAD is not even a song for me)
    Title Credits: DAD, both are rather bad but DAD was at least original
    Main Villain: Tie, both are among my least favourite
    Main Bond Girl: SP (miles better than Jinx)
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: Tie (theseare the moste ridiculous plots of the series)
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: DAD
    Settings: SP
    Action: Tie (both have some good and some bad action scenes)
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: DAD
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: SP


    SP: 12
    DAD: 3
    TIE: 3
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited January 2017 Posts: 5,080
    Second win for Spectre

    PTS: SP
    Title Track: DAD
    Title Credits: DAD
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: DAD
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamor: SP
    Bond Performance: SP

    DAD: 3
    SP: 15
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,345
    You got your scores mixed up. :P
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    @MayDayDiVicenzo, you switched the result around.


    PTS: SP
    Title Track: DAD
    Title Credits: DAD
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score:SP
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP (DAD is more bizarre, but nothing is benign)
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamor: SP
    Bond Performance: SP

    DAD: 2
    SP: 16

  • Posts: 4,325
    PTS: SP
    Title Track: SP
    Title Credits: SP
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score:DAD
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamor: SP
    Bond Performance: SP

    SP 17-1 DAD
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    @TF, @Murdock, thanks for the heads up! What a travesty that would have been...
  • Sometimes you should listen to your subconscious, @MayDayDiVicenzo ;)
  • Posts: 4,042
    @TF, @Murdock, thanks for the heads up! What a travesty that would have been...

    Spectre was in the lead until the final third…..
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    PTS: SP
    Title Track: SP
    Title Credits: SP
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: DAD
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: SP

    SP: 17
    DAD: 1
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,363
    PTS: SP (One of the spots that gets praise for DAD, but I find it just ok. I like the capture/imprisonment that follows though)
    Title Track: SP (By a slim margin at the moment, I enjoy both however)
    Title Credits: SP (Never was a fan of the fire/ice & scorpions. I find this to be Kleinman's weakest)
    Main Villain: SP (Both weaker villains, but Graves ranks near the bottom)
    Main Bond Girl: DAD (Halle Berry gets a little too much flack for what are a few atrocious moments. I'm going to get punished for this one!)
    Henchman: SP (Hinx takes this one rather easily)
    Plot: SP (Both are a mess in spots, but DAD went with an Austin Powers plot right after the first 2 films came out, which just didn't work)
    Dialogue: SP (TOO MANY PUNS DAD!!!!)
    Score: DAD (Arnold delivers another solid soundtrack that trumps the the SF rehash that is SP for most of the film)
    Settings: SP (DAD actually does well here compared to TWINE and TND. Good use of Cuba and Iceland is pretty cool. SP just managed to get more out of it's locations with Mexico, Austria, and Rome)
    Action: SP (Practical stunts are always preferred to CGI in Bond and while SP uses CGI, nothing compares to the overuse in DAD)
    Humor: SP (They both have similar laughs, but DAD has more that just don't connect)
    Cinematography: SP (Both shot well, but HVH excels against almost all)
    Benign Bizarre: DAD Truly bizarre
    Suspense: DAD (I'll take Berry drowning over Bond's needlepoint)
    Minor Characters: SP (Sorry Mr. Kil, no contest here)
    Glamour: DAD (I gave this to SP originally, but I like the Ice Palace party, fencing club and such.)
    Bond Performance: SP (Brosnan gave a fun effort and seems enthused throughout, but it doesn't surpass Craig's weakest)

    SP: 13
    DAD: 5
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,590
    While Madeleine Swann is infinitely better than Jinx, you certainly won't be receiving any flack from the likes of me. Berry doesn't bother me nearly as much is she does other fans.
  • Posts: 6,432
    American Bond girls often get alot of critisms, I like Stacey and Christmas Jones :-\"
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    PTS: SP (I find the DAD PTS to be highly overrated around these parts.)
    Title Track: DAD (And I don't even really like the song all that much.)
    Title Credits: DAD (One of the highlights of the film.)
    Main Villain: DAD (Stephens accomplished what he set out to do, Waltz did not.)
    Main Bond Girl: SP (Jinx makes Madeleine look like f***ing Tracy by comparison.)
    Henchman: SP (Diamond Face Man is just dumb.)
    Plot: DAD (At least it knows how absurd it is.)
    Dialogue: SP (DAD resides at the bottom of the ocean.)
    Score: DAD (But not by much, honestly.)
    Settings: DAD (I like the variety here.)
    Action: SP (Each has a standout fight, with the rest being a mixed bag.)
    Humor: SP (DAD failed harder.)
    Cinematography: SP (Only slightly.)
    Benign Bizarre: SP (DAD is more stupid than bizarre.)
    Suspense: SP (There are certainly more tense moments to be found within SP.)
    Minor Characters: DAD (Easily with the likes of Chang, General Moon, Falco, Raoul etc...)
    Glamour: DAD (I suppose.)
    Bond Performance: DAD (Brosnan made the most of it while Craig seemed awkward at times.)


    And so it ends in a tie...

    DAD - 9
    SP - 9
  • Posts: 463
    PTS: SP
    Title Track: DAD
    Title Credits: DAD
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    I'm giving this one to SP due to White's scene alone. Absolutely incredible.
    Score: DAD
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    The PTS alone wins this for SP.
    Humour: SP
    Rather enjoy the couch gag in the PTS. Most of the funny stuff in DAD is bad...
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Monica Belucci walking to her "death" and the SPECTRE meeting scenes are absolutely great.
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamor: SP
    Bond Performance: SP

    DAD: 3
    SP: 15
  • Posts: 19,339
    PTS: SP
    Title Track: SP
    Title Credits: DAD
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: DAD
    Score: DAD
    Settings: DAD
    Action: DAD
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: DAD
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: DAD
    Glamor: SP
    Bond Performance: SP

    DAD: 7
    SP: 11
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,590
    Zao is a very good henchman.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    I like his punch line.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Am I the only one who picked Zao? I think he's great visually and in is convincing in the action scenes. Good presence.
    I'm wondering the same thing about the Spectre score...

    My take on Zao: He's a very robotic character, right down to his voice. The only time I find him to have good presence is in the car chase, otherwise he is lackluster. Since I recognize Hinx could be categorized as robotic by some, I'll just say that it comes down to two main qualities: mannerisms and impact. Scenes where Hinx takes out his cloth to clean the blood off his hand and the way he takes the his place at the table in the castle help him come across as more organic and nuanced. That, along with the fact that he is more physically imposing and his scenes are mostly staged to accentuate those qualities, give him more command. The only scene where those are not capitalized on is in the Austrian chase sequence (except the final frame).
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    Am I the only one who picked Zao? I think he's great visually and in is convincing in the action scenes. Good presence.

    I picked Zao as well. He was a good character: good motivations, well featured throughout, great facial deformity, good hand-to-hand fight in the clinic and car chase on ice. I think people look down on him because he appears in a silly movie (the only advantage of which was to make his outlandish facial scarring appear entirely realistic by comparison).

    Hinx on the other hand had a single great fight, but was otherwise a very colorless character. Which is a shame because Bautista really showed he can nail comedy and perform theatrically in Guardians of the Galaxy. They really, really underused him in Spectre. Also I've always been bothered by the barely-there-ness of his metal thumbnails which are shown briefly from a distance in that eye-gouging scene, never explicitly referred to, and never seen again. One of those things the filmmakers just forgot about? Like the stolen list in Skyfall?

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Which one?
    Shirley you jest...
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