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Spectre versus the field: Skyfall

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  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    PTS: SP
    Title Track: OHMSS
    Title Credits: SP
    Main Villain: OHMSS
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: OHMSS
    Dialogue: OHMSS
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: OHMSS
    Humour: OHMSS
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: OHMSS
    Minor Characters: OHMSS
    Glamour: OHMSS
    Bond Performance: OHMSS

    OHMSS 15
    SP 3

    OHMSS is the best Bond film of them all, and quite probably the best Bond film there will ever be.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    PTS: SP
    Title Track: OHMSS
    Title Credits: SP
    Main Villain: OHMSS
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: OHMSS
    Dialogue: OHMSS
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: OHMSS
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: OHMSS
    Minor Characters: OHMSS
    Glamour: OHMSS
    Bond Performance: SP

    OHMSS 13
    SP 5

  • daltondalton
    Posts: 1,631
    PTS: OHMSS
    Title Track: OHMSS
    Title Credits: OHMSS
    Main Villain: OHMSS 
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS 
    Henchman: OHMSS
    Overall Plot: OHMSS
    Dialogue: OHMSS
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS 
    Action: OHMSS 
    Humor: OHMSS
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: OHMSS 
    Minor Characters: OHMSS
    Glamour: OHMSS
    Bond Performance: SP

    SP: 1
    OHMSS: 17
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :)) very nice observations @dalton
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    PTS: SP - I'll let SP shade this as it's very solid, if not brilliant, and OHMSS's is merely average.

    Title track: OHMSS - No comment.

    Title credits: OHMSS - Some nice motifs from Binder and there are aspects of SP (topless Dan, slimy octopus I don't really care for).

    Main Villain: OHMSS - The best Blofeld v stepbrother Blofeld? No contest.

    Main Bond girl: SP - Heresy I know but I've always found Tracy rather annoying. And Madeline is considerably sexier.

    Henchman: SP - Personally I wouldn't really count Irma as a henchman but if it's not her it's the fairly mundane heavy, Grunther. Anyway a key part of a henchman's job is to get into a rumble with Bond at some point. In this regard Hinx smashes Irma out of the park. The fact that she is the one who kills Tracy goes in her favour but the Hinx fight is the highlight of SP.

    Overall Plot: OHMSS - The intertwining of Blofeld's scheme (although the angels of death hypnotism is a little outlandish) with the Tracy plot line actually improves on Fleming's original showing Maibaum at his peak. Sorry P&W but you would surely admit yourselves that SP is nowhere near?

    Dialogue: OHMSS - 'North of the Caspian', Draco's monologue about Tracy, the blistering M scenes, Blofeld's sneering superiority, the near Carry On Sir Hilary moments; there's just so much to adore here.

    Score: OHMSS - An embarassing gulf in class. One is the perfect way to score a Bond film and the other really isn't.

    Settings: OHMSS - Action and adventure high in the Alps. Bondian perfection.

    Action: OHMSS - The escape from Piz Gloria would be enough on its own be we also have a sensational bobsleigh sequence, fantastic aerial assault and numerous very good fights. Kudos to the Hinx fight but other than that SP is nowhere near.

    Humour: OHMSS - Sorry but I love 'This never happened to the other fella', 'You must give me the name of your occulist', 'Just a slight stiffness coming on', 'You've no idea how it's mounting up' and 'He had lots of guts'.

    Cinematography: OHMSS - Harsh on SP but some of the soaring shots of the snowbound action are sumptuous and the helicopters at dawn set to Barry's music are perfect. Johnny Jordan's aerial photography deserves a mention too.

    Benign bizarre: OHMSS - A weird clinic at the top of a mountain where young girls are hypnotised into delivering bacteriological agents to bring the UN to its knees? Will do for me.

    Suspense: OHMSS - For the scene on the cliff edge where Bond chokes the goon alone. But there are so many more great scenes in addition to this.

    Minor characters: OHMSS - Draco and his heavies, M and MP (both superb), Sir Hilary Bray, the girls, Campbell. Lots of small parts but superbly played.

    Glamour: SP - The Rome scenes are just dripping with glamour from the clothes to the architecture to the cars. Sumptuous.

    Bond performance: OHMSS - Dan is good in SP but I feel he's dialling it in (only ever so slightly) but I have to give it Laz if only for the cliff top scene and then sitting on the ice rink where he knows he is in proper trouble and pretty much out of options. Perfectly played. But he's also great in the fights, owns the casino when he walks in, plays the M scenes very well and the moment he slides along the ice with machine gun is purest Bond class.

    OHMSS: 14
    SP: 4

    Chin up SP that's the end of the 60s, the worst hurdle over. From now on things can only get better.




  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    Benny wrote: »

    I would give SP a tied vote fro PTS and Main Bond girl. But other than that, the lone George Lazenby entry is hard to beat.

    You can award ties, you know! I don't believe anyone has so far, but it is legitimate if you can't seem to reach a decision.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    OHMSS is far superior in every respect bar the actor playing Bond.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited July 2016 Posts: 8,217
    PTS: SP
    Title Track: OHMSS
    Title Credits: OHMSS
    Main Villain: OHMSS 
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS 
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: OHMSS
    Dialogue: OHMSS
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS 
    Action: OHMSS 
    Humor: OHMSS
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: OHMSS 
    Minor Characters: OHMSS
    Glamour: Tie
    Bond Performance: SP

    SP: 3
    OHMSS: 14
    Tie: 1

    A considerable gulf in class in a number of areas.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited July 2016 Posts: 7,134
    suavejmf wrote: »
    OHMSS is far superior in every respect bar the actor playing Bond.

    I don't agree, Lazenby did an excellent job portraying a more vulnerable Bond. That final scene is pure class.

    Daniel Craig in Spectre is a bored performance on autopilot.

    For me, Lazenby wins easily.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    edited July 2016 Posts: 7,653
    PTS: OHMSS it never happend to that blond fella
    Title Track: OHMSS
    Title Credits: OHMSS
    Main Villain: OHMSS
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Henchman: OHMSS Blofeld and Bunt a match made in hell
    Overall Plot: OHMSS
    Dialogue: OHMSS
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: OHMSS
    Humor: OHMSS
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: OHMSS
    Minor Characters: OHMSS
    Glamour: OHMSS
    Bond Performance: OHMSS

    OHMSS 18
    SP 0

    Lazenby did a bloody brilliant job for a first acting job to bad the dickhead f&%ked it up, DAF would have been amazing.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    There are 18 categories, folks. @SaintMark and @CraigMooreOHMSS, would you kindly correct your scores so I get don't get tripped up going back (not that it would make a huge difference, just for accuracy's sake)?
  • Crazysoul95Crazysoul95
    Posts: 3,336
    Soundofthesinners wrote: »
    There are 18 categories, folks. @SaintMark and @CraigMooreOHMSS, would you kindly correct your scores so I get don't get tripped up going back (not that it would make a huge difference, just for accuracy's sake)?

    @Birdleson did the same mistake.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    PTS: SP
    Title Track: OHMSS
    Title Credits: SP (very close, I don't like both)
    Main Villain: OHMSS
    Main Bond Girl: OHMSS
    Henchman: OHMSS
    Overall Plot: OHMSS
    Dialogue: OHMSS
    Score: OHMSS
    Settings: OHMSS
    Action: OHMSS
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: OHMSS
    Benign Bizarre: OHMSS
    Suspense: OHMSS
    Minor Characters: OHMSS (very close, both have good ones)
    Glamour: OHMSS
    Bond Performance: SP

    SP: 4
    OHMSS: 14
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Soundofthesinners wrote: »
    There are 18 categories, folks. @SaintMark and @CraigMooreOHMSS, would you kindly correct your scores so I get don't get tripped up going back (not that it would make a huge difference, just for accuracy's sake)?

    If you award a tie, would you prefer an additional point for each or one taken away from each?
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited July 2016 Posts: 5,131
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    OHMSS is far superior in every respect bar the actor playing Bond.

    I don't agree, Lazenby did an excellent job portraying a more vulnerable Bond. That final scene is pure class.

    Daniel Craig in Spectre is a bored performance on autopilot.

    For me, Lazenby wins easily.

    Can't really argue that Lazenby's performance isn't good in OHMSS and Craig isn't as good as in say CR.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited July 2016 Posts: 45,489
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Soundofthesinners wrote: »
    There are 18 categories, folks. @SaintMark and @CraigMooreOHMSS, would you kindly correct your scores so I get don't get tripped up going back (not that it would make a huge difference, just for accuracy's sake)?

    If you award a tie, would you prefer an additional point for each or one taken away from each?

    Why not write it as for instance
    OHMSS-14
    SP-3
    Tie-1

    That has worked before.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Soundofthesinners wrote: »
    There are 18 categories, folks. @SaintMark and @CraigMooreOHMSS, would you kindly correct your scores so I get don't get tripped up going back (not that it would make a huge difference, just for accuracy's sake)?

    If you award a tie, would you prefer an additional point for each or one taken away from each?

    Why not write it as for instance
    OHMSS-14
    SP-3
    Tie-1

    That has worked before.

    Nice and simple, yes.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Soundofthesinners wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Soundofthesinners wrote: »
    There are 18 categories, folks. @SaintMark and @CraigMooreOHMSS, would you kindly correct your scores so I get don't get tripped up going back (not that it would make a huge difference, just for accuracy's sake)?

    If you award a tie, would you prefer an additional point for each or one taken away from each?

    Why not write it as for instance
    OHMSS-14
    SP-3
    Tie-1

    That has worked before.

    Nice and simple, yes.

    No worries. Corrected.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    I must say, its very nice to see that , despite the assertive and long held debates on so many Bond related topics, there are certain things where there is almost complete consensus,
    OHMSS 18 Spectre 0
    Is also interesting given Craig's great previous performances that there really is a question mark re the "Bond performance"
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    You can't beat quality and OHMSS is one hell of a quality product. :)
  • vzokvzok
    edited July 2016 Posts: 4,044
    patb wrote: »
    I must say, its very nice to see that , despite the assertive and long held debates on so many Bond related topics, there are certain things where there is almost complete consensus,
    OHMSS 18 Spectre 0
    Is also interesting given Craig's great previous performances that there really is a question mark re the "Bond performance"

    Spectre is getting a thrashing here, but might have been hit a bit harder by FRWL and GF. It'll be interesting to see the end result.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    vzok wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    I must say, its very nice to see that , despite the assertive and long held debates on so many Bond related topics, there are certain things where there is almost complete consensus,
    OHMSS 18 Spectre 0
    Is also interesting given Craig's great previous performances that there really is a question mark re the "Bond performance"

    Spectre is getting a thrashing here, but might have been hit a bit harder by FRWL and GF. It'll be interesting to see the end result.

    The 60s were always going to be tough. From here on in things should get better for SP. On the basis most people rank it somewhere around the middle I predict it to beat DAF, LALD, TMWTGG, MR, AVTAK, TND, TWINE and DAD and run FYEO, OP, LTK and QOS reasonably close.

    The only ones I would imagine it unlikely to beat are TSWLM, GE, CR and SF (although there is a dedicated band of SF haters out there who seem to prefer SP).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    OHMSS is far superior in every respect bar the actor playing Bond.

    I don't agree, Lazenby did an excellent job portraying a more vulnerable Bond. That final scene is pure class.

    Daniel Craig in Spectre is a bored performance on autopilot.

    For me, Lazenby wins easily.

    This. I've loved Craig in the role up until this point: "autopilot" is a good word to describe the performance.
  • vzokvzok
    edited July 2016 Posts: 4,044
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    OHMSS is far superior in every respect bar the actor playing Bond.

    I don't agree, Lazenby did an excellent job portraying a more vulnerable Bond. That final scene is pure class.

    Daniel Craig in Spectre is a bored performance on autopilot.

    For me, Lazenby wins easily.

    This. I've loved Craig in the role up until this point: "autopilot" is a good word to describe the performance.

    I think it is a marmite performance. It's about 12-8 for Craig over Lazenby so far.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    PTS: Spectre
    Title Track: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Title Credits: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Main Villain: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Main Bond Girl: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Henchman: Spectre
    Overall Plot: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Dialogue: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Score: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Settings: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Action: Spectre
    Humor: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Cinematography: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Benign Bizarre: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Suspense: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Minor Characters: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Glamour: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Bond Performance: On Her Majesty's Secret Service

    Total:
    On Her Majesty's Secret Service: 15
    Spectre: 3
    Winner: On Her Majesty's Secret Service

    Spectre managed to make it not a landslide victory for On Her Majesty's Secret Service, but in the end, the latter is one of the jewels in the series' crown.
  • daltondalton
    Posts: 1,631
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I notice that several are choosing SP for action. That is a category that I thought would go universally to OHMSS. I find it to contain the best action in the series. And it's real; fights, skiing, car chase. Not dependent on CGI or fast cuts in editing.

    Agreed. The "action" in SP is, to be honest, awful and pretty much uninspired at every turn. Not the franchise's finest hour in that department, to be sure.


  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    I must say, its very nice to see that , despite the assertive and long held debates on so many Bond related topics, there are certain things where there is almost complete consensus,
    OHMSS 18 Spectre 0
    Is also interesting given Craig's great previous performances that there really is a question mark re the "Bond performance"

    Spectre is getting a thrashing here, but might have been hit a bit harder by FRWL and GF. It'll be interesting to see the end result.

    The 60s were always going to be tough. From here on in things should get better for SP. On the basis most people rank it somewhere around the middle I predict it to beat DAF, LALD, TMWTGG, MR, AVTAK, TND, TWINE and DAD and run FYEO, OP, LTK and QOS reasonably close.

    The only ones I would imagine it unlikely to beat are TSWLM, GE, CR and SF (although there is a dedicated band of SF haters out there who seem to prefer SP).

    I think you are right but Spectre has the general problem that it is just not very strong in many categories. Especially with regard to the plot, the characters and the sound. So it will often lose the henchman, villain, minor character ctegories as well as the title track / score category and the plot / suspense category.

    On its plus side it has a widely superior PTS and cinematography.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    But the fights in OHMSS are dependent on fast cuts.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    But the fights in OHMSS are dependent on fast cuts.

    Revolutionary at the time. OHMSS is a groundbreaking film action and storywise.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    It's also one of the best books.
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