Is 'Tomorrow Never Dies' the most formulaic Bond film?

12346»

Comments

  • Good Film but poorly written villain. Tony Hopkins would have been great if the script had been to his liking. Plus Terry Hatcher is miscast and wooden.
  • Posts: 207
    I like mostly everything up until the final act. It drags a little there for me.

    The whole Hamburg sequence in particular stands out to me. Love the spy work, Dr. Kaufman in the hotel room, and the parking garage scene.

    I do think it's one of the best Bond films to show someone who has never seen one though. Tons of action to keep them entertained. The entire movie just feels so 90's.
  • ^^this^^
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    I watched,it again yesterday with a friend and we had a very good time. I agree with other members who wrote today: Hatcher is miscast and the finale on the stealth boat is the weakest part (without any creative ideas and too much shooting).

    I usually thought that the action packed second half was better but I didn't feel this way yesterday. The second part was emtertaining, no doubt, but the first half has a much better balance between tension, jokes, character moments and action. TND will never end in my top 10 (yes, it is a bit too formulaic, the locations are a bit disappointing, Hatcher and Yeoh are far away from being favourites for me and I completely miss a good henchman with enough screentime) but it always entertain me more than most other action flicks on the TV.

    Best things: danish lesson, the tension created in the PTS and after the main titles, the introduction of Carver, Q (!), the parking garage action (no sense but fun), the score when Bond and Wai Lin are handcuffed in the helicopter after diving, the motorcycle action, Bond explaining that Carver media is more of a torture than all the things they could do to him, Bond and Lin talking and preparing for action (on the junk) and by far the best scene of the movie :
    Dr. Kaufman!!! He is awesome!!!

    I even like Jack Wade more than most fans on this forum. (He isn't outstanding but far away from bad or annoying as others are pointing out).
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I love TND. For me, I think the most formulaic Bond film is ... TMWTGG. Ugh.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    I love TND. For me, I think the most formulaic Bond film is ... TMWTGG. Ugh.

    You may have a point there... I'm re-thinking my stance on this being the best Moore film... or at least my favourite... I may have to change that to OP....
  • Posts: 1,314
    TND is great right up until jack wade shows up. It seems to fall apart thereafter. Loses pace and the jokes all fall flat after that.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited June 2021 Posts: 4,636
    I watched,it again yesterday with a friend and we had a very good time. I agree with other members who wrote today: Hatcher is miscast and the finale on the stealth boat is the weakest part (without any creative ideas and too much shooting).

    I usually thought that the action packed second half was better but I didn't feel this way yesterday. The second part was emtertaining, no doubt, but the first half has a much better balance between tension, jokes, character moments and action. TND will never end in my top 10 (yes, it is a bit too formulaic, the locations are a bit disappointing, Hatcher and Yeoh are far away from being favourites for me and I completely miss a good henchman with enough screentime) but it always entertain me more than most other action flicks on the TV.

    Best things: danish lesson, the tension created in the PTS and after the main titles, the introduction of Carver, Q (!), the parking garage action (no sense but fun), the score when Bond and Wai Lin are handcuffed in the helicopter after diving, the motorcycle action, Bond explaining that Carver media is more of a torture than all the things they could do to him, Bond and Lin talking and preparing for action (on the junk) and by far the best scene of the movie :
    Dr. Kaufman!!! He is awesome!!!

    I even like Jack Wade more than most fans on this forum. (He isn't outstanding but far away from bad or annoying as others are pointing out).

    I agree with everything you said. I’d rather have Felix Leiter to Jack Wade, but I’ll take Jack Wade over Sheriff JW Pepper or the DAF or AVTAK sheriffs! And I’m American!

    In The Lost Adventures of James Bond, turns out there was not only a discussion about continuing Wai Lin’s adventures, but also having a prequel with Dr. Kaufman. There was even talk about PB making a surprise appearance, making it their first meeting. It’s amazing what a few minutes (or even a single scene) a character can do to leave a legacy!
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    @MaxCasino Interesting, I didn't know that about Kaufman. As much as I love his scene, I don't think that a Kaufman movie would work at all.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    I love TND. For me, I think the most formulaic Bond film is ... TMWTGG. Ugh.

    You may have a point there... I'm re-thinking my stance on this being the best Moore film... or at least my favourite... I may have to change that to OP....

    TMWTGG was my favourite Roger Moore for a long time but now it's OP
  • I love TND. For me, I think the most formulaic Bond film is ... TMWTGG. Ugh.

    I think TND is quite formulaic but in my opinion that makes it the quintessential Bond film. It has many classic moments but it's shown in a more modern way. I also like the updated version of the plot of YOLT/TSWLM/MR.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jonathan Pryce has been awarded a knighthood, which is lovely.

    I think he might be only the second Bond villain to be knighted...?

    Chilling, if you think about it.

    Though not surprising given that so many of the main Bond villains weren't played by Btitish actors. Therefore, they are ineligible for a knighthood under the UK honours system.

    It's during the Brosnan era that they went for British actors for villains. Craig went back to non British.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jonathan Pryce has been awarded a knighthood, which is lovely.

    I think he might be only the second Bond villain to be knighted...?

    Chilling, if you think about it.

    Though not surprising given that so many of the main Bond villains weren't played by Btitish actors. Therefore, they are ineligible for a knighthood under the UK honours system.

    It's during the Brosnan era that they went for British actors for villains. Craig went back to non British.

    Yes, that's true. Perhaps they were cheaper to hire than Hollywood stars?
  • Posts: 15,124
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jonathan Pryce has been awarded a knighthood, which is lovely.

    I think he might be only the second Bond villain to be knighted...?

    Chilling, if you think about it.

    Though not surprising given that so many of the main Bond villains weren't played by Btitish actors. Therefore, they are ineligible for a knighthood under the UK honours system.

    It's during the Brosnan era that they went for British actors for villains. Craig went back to non British.

    Yes, that's true. Perhaps they were cheaper to hire than Hollywood stars?

    Well, it's not like they often took Hollywood stars in the past. And during the Brosnan they took very famous American actresses as Bond girls. Which was a terrible idea by the way. No I suspect it was mainly because people associate British actors with villainous roles. Money might have been a factor for some casting decisions: I doubt Toby Stephens was very expensive.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jonathan Pryce has been awarded a knighthood, which is lovely.

    I think he might be only the second Bond villain to be knighted...?

    Chilling, if you think about it.

    Though not surprising given that so many of the main Bond villains weren't played by Btitish actors. Therefore, they are ineligible for a knighthood under the UK honours system.

    It's during the Brosnan era that they went for British actors for villains. Craig went back to non British.

    Yes, that's true. Perhaps they were cheaper to hire than Hollywood stars?

    Well, it's not like they often took Hollywood stars in the past. And during the Brosnan they took very famous American actresses as Bond girls. Which was a terrible idea by the way. No I suspect it was mainly because people associate British actors with villainous roles. Money might have been a factor for some casting decisions: I doubt Toby Stephens was very expensive.

    Yes, and in the US British villains generally play well with the audiences because of the association you mention. As you say, Toby Stephens was much less well known back in 2002 than he is now. It was the first time I'd heard of him at the press conference in January 2002 in fact.
  • It’s been a while since I’ve last seen Tomorrow Never Dies, perhaps two or three years ago, but it’s always been placed in the middle-bottom portion of my rankings. It was one of the first Bond films I saw, and I loved it as a kid, but watching it now, I’m often put off by all the cheesy one liners in the film. It’s unfortunate that this film was what set the stage for the following films, despite my personal appreciation for The World Is Not Enough. Pierce is great though.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jonathan Pryce has been awarded a knighthood, which is lovely.

    I think he might be only the second Bond villain to be knighted...?

    Chilling, if you think about it.

    Though not surprising given that so many of the main Bond villains weren't played by Btitish actors. Therefore, they are ineligible for a knighthood under the UK honours system.

    It's during the Brosnan era that they went for British actors for villains. Craig went back to non British.

    Yes, that's true. Perhaps they were cheaper to hire than Hollywood stars?

    Well, it's not like they often took Hollywood stars in the past. And during the Brosnan they took very famous American actresses as Bond girls. Which was a terrible idea by the way. No I suspect it was mainly because people associate British actors with villainous roles. Money might have been a factor for some casting decisions: I doubt Toby Stephens was very expensive.

    Yes, and in the US British villains generally play well with the audiences because of the association you mention. As you say, Toby Stephens was much less well known back in 2002 than he is now. It was the first time I'd heard of him at the press conference in January 2002 in fact.

    My bet is that Stephens is still pretty cheap now. Ironically, I think he could make a decent Drax in a faithful adaptation of MR. And I hated him in DAD.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2021 Posts: 18,281
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jonathan Pryce has been awarded a knighthood, which is lovely.

    I think he might be only the second Bond villain to be knighted...?

    Chilling, if you think about it.

    Though not surprising given that so many of the main Bond villains weren't played by Btitish actors. Therefore, they are ineligible for a knighthood under the UK honours system.

    It's during the Brosnan era that they went for British actors for villains. Craig went back to non British.

    Yes, that's true. Perhaps they were cheaper to hire than Hollywood stars?

    Well, it's not like they often took Hollywood stars in the past. And during the Brosnan they took very famous American actresses as Bond girls. Which was a terrible idea by the way. No I suspect it was mainly because people associate British actors with villainous roles. Money might have been a factor for some casting decisions: I doubt Toby Stephens was very expensive.

    Yes, and in the US British villains generally play well with the audiences because of the association you mention. As you say, Toby Stephens was much less well known back in 2002 than he is now. It was the first time I'd heard of him at the press conference in January 2002 in fact.

    My bet is that Stephens is still pretty cheap now. Ironically, I think he could make a decent Drax in a faithful adaptation of MR. And I hated him in DAD.

    Could be. I'm not too well up on actors and how popular they are but I suppose he's raised his profile a bit with Eon by playing James Bond on BBC Radio 4 since 2008. It looks likely that he'll get all of the Fleming Bond novels adapted for radio at some point and maybe even move on to adapting the short stories too.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Funnily enough, Stephens has been cast in the second series of Alex Rider from Anthony Horowitz - he'll be playing the lead villain, who was inspired in a large way by the novel version of Drax.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Jonathan Pryce has been awarded a knighthood, which is lovely.

    I think he might be only the second Bond villain to be knighted...?

    Chilling, if you think about it.

    Though not surprising given that so many of the main Bond villains weren't played by Btitish actors. Therefore, they are ineligible for a knighthood under the UK honours system.

    It's during the Brosnan era that they went for British actors for villains. Craig went back to non British.

    Yes, that's true. Perhaps they were cheaper to hire than Hollywood stars?

    Well, it's not like they often took Hollywood stars in the past. And during the Brosnan they took very famous American actresses as Bond girls. Which was a terrible idea by the way. No I suspect it was mainly because people associate British actors with villainous roles. Money might have been a factor for some casting decisions: I doubt Toby Stephens was very expensive.

    Yes, and in the US British villains generally play well with the audiences because of the association you mention. As you say, Toby Stephens was much less well known back in 2002 than he is now. It was the first time I'd heard of him at the press conference in January 2002 in fact.

    My bet is that Stephens is still pretty cheap now. Ironically, I think he could make a decent Drax in a faithful adaptation of MR. And I hated him in DAD.

    Could be. I'm not too well up on actors and how popular they are but I suppose he's raised his profile a bit with Eon by playing James Bond on BBC Radio 4 since 2008. It looks likely that he'll get all of the Fleming Bond novels adapted for radio at some point and maybe even move on to adapting the short stories too.

    He's been making a living out of acting, no doubt, which is fairly rare in the profession and is in itself an achievement. But I suspect this gives him a steady and decent income and he's not making a fortune out of it. I know he built is career on the exposure he got as Graves (and that dreaded DAD!), but the movie's many flaws notwithstanding, I always thought he lacked maturity and gravitas to play a Bond villain then. Now he'd do fine. I'd even say he looked more like a Bond villain in And Then There Were None than in DAD.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    If the 'formula' gives you something enjoyable, why knock it? Besides, they broke formula in it too (no sacrificial lamb).
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Closing this thread because a similar discussion was recently started elsewhere.
This discussion has been closed.