What, Exactly, Is a Car Chase?

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    bondjames wrote: »
    If I may politely suggest something. This highly amusing and informative thread appears to be the definition of chasing one's tail. ;)

    You're not wrong, bondjames!

    :D
    Which makes a lot of sense to me, but then again, I'm a cat person.. ;-)

    And no, slowly following another car is not a chase, as it says in the dictionary, it has to be 'at high speed'.
    Now, obviously, 'high speed' is somewhat relative, as our walking pace is a terribly high speed for a snail (now I start to wonder what those snails were thinking when I threw them out of my garden into the next..).

    Tailing is not chasing, I think.

    High speed should be defined as 'making an effort to go faster then ordinarily, compared to oneself or the environment'.

    This thread will leave us with a good set of definitions to enhance the qualities of our elimination games!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    If I may politely suggest something. This highly amusing and informative thread appears to be the definition of chasing one's tail. ;)

    You're not wrong, bondjames!

    :D
    Which makes a lot of sense to me, but then again, I'm a cat person.. ;-)

    And no, slowly following another car is not a chase, as it says in the dictionary, it has to be 'at high speed'.
    Now, obviously, 'high speed' is somewhat relative, as our walking pace is a terribly high speed for a snail (now I start to wonder what those snails were thinking when I threw them out of my garden into the next..).

    Tailing is not chasing, I think.

    High speed should be defined as 'making an effort to go faster then ordinarily, compared to oneself or the environment'.

    This thread will leave us with a good set of definitions to enhance the qualities of our elimination games!

    So is Orlov not chasing Bond then? All he says to his driver 'is follow that car'. They do seem to be going faster than the speed limit but are they tailing or chasing?

  • Posts: 669
    bondjames wrote: »
    If I may politely suggest something. This highly amusing and informative thread appears to be the definition of chasing one's tail. ;)

    You're not wrong, bondjames!

    :D
    Which makes a lot of sense to me, but then again, I'm a cat person.. ;-)

    And no, slowly following another car is not a chase, as it says in the dictionary, it has to be 'at high speed'.
    Now, obviously, 'high speed' is somewhat relative, as our walking pace is a terribly high speed for a snail (now I start to wonder what those snails were thinking when I threw them out of my garden into the next..).

    Tailing is not chasing, I think.

    High speed should be defined as 'making an effort to go faster then ordinarily, compared to oneself or the environment'.

    This thread will leave us with a good set of definitions to enhance the qualities of our elimination games!

    So is Orlov not chasing Bond then? All he says to his driver 'is follow that car'. They do seem to be going faster than the speed limit but are they tailing or chasing?

    I think that counts as a chase because Bond is driving fast and therefore they have to drive fast in order to keep up with him. It's not just a simple tail. If Bond were dawdling along at 25 MPH (or however you Brits calculate it!), then it would be a tail, not a chase.

    And @CommanderRoss, you're right that we do seem to be getting to some good definitions here. If we can ever decide on them! :-D
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2016 Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    If I may politely suggest something. This highly amusing and informative thread appears to be the definition of chasing one's tail. ;)

    You're not wrong, bondjames!

    :D
    Which makes a lot of sense to me, but then again, I'm a cat person.. ;-)

    And no, slowly following another car is not a chase, as it says in the dictionary, it has to be 'at high speed'.
    Now, obviously, 'high speed' is somewhat relative, as our walking pace is a terribly high speed for a snail (now I start to wonder what those snails were thinking when I threw them out of my garden into the next..).

    Tailing is not chasing, I think.

    High speed should be defined as 'making an effort to go faster then ordinarily, compared to oneself or the environment'.

    This thread will leave us with a good set of definitions to enhance the qualities of our elimination games!

    So is Orlov not chasing Bond then? All he says to his driver 'is follow that car'. They do seem to be going faster than the speed limit but are they tailing or chasing?

    I think that counts as a chase because Bond is driving fast and therefore they have to drive fast in order to keep up with him. It's not just a simple tail. If Bond were dawdling along at 25 MPH (or however you Brits calculate it!), then it would be a tail, not a chase.

    And @CommanderRoss, you're right that we do seem to be getting to some good definitions here. If we can ever decide on them! :-D

    Hmm.

    Difficult if we start putting a speed limit on it as Bond was driving both on the motorway and in town.

    If say he was doing 80 in a 30 zone would that be chasing. But if he's only doing the same 80 in a 70 (well actually in Germany isn't the autobahn speed limit 130kph which is about 80) would it therefore be tailing?

    Come to think of in the scene in question all the above only applies to the police chasing him. The Orlov chase is when Bond is driving pretty slowly on the train tracks (when he passes that station and all those people stare at him it takes ages). Doubt he's doing over 50. So is it therefore tailing?

    To be honest once Bond pierces his tyres and goes onto the train tracks is it a car chase between him and Orlov any more or is Bond driving a rail vehicle?

    Also in AVTAK when the car is chopped in half is it still a car? Surely a two wheeled vehicle is not a car?
  • Posts: 669
    Oh, boy! @TheWizardOfIce, now we're really just digging a hole for ourselves, aren't we?

    I think, to answer your final questions, a car is a car is a car - regardless of whether its tires have popped and it's on rails, or whether it's been slashed in half. I think that, at the very least, we can decide that, regardless of the shape it's in by the end of the chase, it's still a car.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    What about TLD?

    Is that still a car by the end or some sort of snow mobile? Only three functioning wheels and skis?

    Also a thought that has just struck me - can TMWTGG car chase be classed as a 'car chase' rather than 'vehicular chase' given Scaramanga's car turns into a plane?
  • Posts: 669
    You're killing me! Haha.
    TMWTGG chase is definitely a car chase because Scaramanga's car remains a car for the entire duration of the chase itself.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited June 2016 Posts: 8,266
    Nonono if a car was built as a car, it's a car. Same with the Scaramanga chase, it is a car with the addition of wings, a flying car. It's design purpose was a car.

    So the Aston in TLD and Scaramanga's flying car (forgot the brand) are both cars. But the Aston isn't chased by cars, though..

    I don't think we should look at the legal speed, but look at the fact that the car is driven at higher speeds then one would expect it to go. Germany's speed limit on the Autobahn isn't 130, it's the advisory speed. There isn't an actual speed limit. So it's legal to go 200 km/h on those parts of the Autobahn (not on all, mind you!). But two cars chasing eachother with 200 km/h on the autobahn is still a chase, as the intend is to catch up with the one beeing chased and the first one is clearly avoiding that.

    @TheWizard Orlov says 'follow that car'for sure, but it's rather adamant that he'd like to catch up with Bond, so that's definately a chase.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Maybe a chase means that the other vehicle intends to catch up (and stop) the other vehicle, so that the LALD taxi following the pimpmobile isn't a chase. A race would be to win.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    w2bond wrote: »
    Maybe a chase means that the other vehicle intends to catch up (and stop) the other vehicle, so that the LALD taxi following the pimpmobile isn't a chase. A race would be to win.

    That's not bad to be fair. With a chase the intention is to apprehend/attack the opponent once you catch them.

    LALD taxi and pimpmobile doesn't fall under this criteria nor does Bond v Xenia so they are a tailing and a race respectively.
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 669
    Good point about the notion of trying to stop/hurt/kill the other person. A chase really is one party trying to capture or kill the other, and that should be a major part of the definition.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Yep, I agree with that.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    So what would you call the SP 'car' chase then? From what I could tell, Hinx was content to stare down Bond. There was no attempt to shoot him with the double barrel gun when he pulled up alongside him, nor any attempt to ram the Aston when he caught up to him. Would this qualify as an attempt to "stop/hurt/kill the other person"?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    So what would you call the SP 'car' chase then? From what I could tell, Hinx was content to stare down Bond. There was no attempt to shoot him with the double barrel gun when he pulled up alongside him, nor any attempt to ram the Aston when he caught up to him. Would this qualify as an attempt to "stop/hurt/kill the other person"?

    I think it would qualify more as 'we've only got so many Jag and DB10 prototypes so FFS don't smash them up'.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    So what would you call the SP 'car' chase then? From what I could tell, Hinx was content to stare down Bond. There was no attempt to shoot him with the double barrel gun when he pulled up alongside him, nor any attempt to ram the Aston when he caught up to him. Would this qualify as an attempt to "stop/hurt/kill the other person"?

    I think it would qualify more as 'we've only got so many Jag and DB10 prototypes so FFS don't smash them up'.
    This is probably closer to the truth than we know. I seem to recall they blew a lot of money crashing Astons unintentionally during the filming of the QoS pretitles. Perhaps they were hoping to avoid that this time out.
  • Posts: 669
    I agree that the major downside of the SP car chase is the lack of danger. You'd think that, even if they were trying to save money crashing expensive cars, they could still have had Hinx firing a pistol out his window. I realize that would involve a few squibs on the Aston and maybe a few windows of nearby buildings being shattered, but it can't have been that much more expensive, right?

    On the other hand, haven't we had other chases in the series without guns being fired? I don't recall any of the police chasing Bond and Solitaire in LALD shooting at them, for example.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    On the other hand, haven't we had other chases in the series without guns being fired? I don't recall any of the police chasing Bond and Solitaire in LALD shooting at them, for example.
    I agree on the LALD chase being a bit disappointing. I noticed it on my recent rewatch. That bus was going so slow that I could have probably caught up with it on foot....and why did the cops not stop Bond/Solitaire before they got on the bus (they walked right up to it if I recall)? Of course, then it would have been a mere insipid 'foot' chase.

    The boat chase on the other hand is outstanding imho.
  • Posts: 669
    I'm sure there are others besides LALD too, so it's not quite fair to criticize the SP chase for that reason. You could go the other way, too, and have a chase like in QoS where bad guys have a machine gun aimed directly at Bond and don't pull the trigger.

    As for the LALD boat chase, I will agree with you that about 6 out of its 12 minutes is brilliant. If only JW Pepper and the whole Smokey and the Bandit gang weren't there, imagine how much tighter and more suspenseful it would be!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    The police are not shooting in LALD but are surely trying to catch up. In SP I think it sure is Hinx's intnetion to hurt, when he doesn't while he's got the chance is, perhaps, because he's confident he'll get a better chance. He sure isn't too impressed by Bond from the start.

    That an a million dollar prototype jag, of course....
  • Posts: 669
    In the interest in somehow summing up the conclusions we’ve made in this thread so far, I think I can state that we have agreed upon the following about a car chase:

    --There must be a “pursuer” and a “pursuee,” and the latter must be consciously trying to stop/harm/capture/kill the former;
    --Either the pursuer or pursuee must be in a car, and the other vehicle (if not also a car) must be one whose purpose is also to drive on streets (in other words, a motorcycle or a truck and not a tank or a plane);
    --The vehicles must be going considerably faster than normal for the environment in which they are driving.

    It’s pretty simple but I think that if a scene follows these guidelines, we can call it a car chase. What do you all think? Does this sound right? Am I missing anything?

    Oh, and thank you to all who have participated in this thread! It’s corny and pretty ridiculous, but considering many of the events that have been going on in the world lately, I’m ready for a bit of corny and ridiculous in my life.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Not quite sure on the second statement. Might be that both have to be in a car for the main duration of the chase.

    and yes, I like this rather ridiculous discussion. It's more sensible then most others ;-)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2016 Posts: 9,117
    --The vehicles must be going considerably faster than normal for the environment in which they are driving.

    I am slightly uncomfortable signing off on this point.

    In the 2CV chase Bond is driving flat out yet if he was in an Aston he would just be ambling along. Similarly a chase involving GeeWhizzs would be unlikely to go above the speed limit, yet they are undeniably (shite) cars.

    Would a slightly better definition be 'a general disregard for the Highway Code for the environment in which they are driving'?

    There again once you take the chase off road the Highway Code does not apply.

    Perhaps 'driving inappropriately for the environment and terrain'?

    It is vital for future generations of car chase debaters that we take the time to get this right chaps!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    How about 'driving at the limits of what the car is capable of considering it's construction and environment'?
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 669
    If we put together the suggestions from @TheWizardOfIce and @CommanderRoss, perhaps we can say something like, "Driving inappropriately fast for the surroundings or terrain and pushing the limits of what the vehicle is capable of"?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Yep, sounds fine to me!
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Maybe just "Driving inappropriately (fast) for the surroundings or terrain and pushing the limits of what the vehicle is capable of"?

    Because a chase on a highway may still be fast but still be at the speed limit.

    So if it involves a car/"street going vehicle" and say a boat or plane it will be a vehicular chase?

    This is one of the few, if not the only, debate on this forum that hasn't led to flaming/bashing! Yay!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Personally I'm not that happy with a motorbike chasing a car to be labelled as a car chase (for example is the NSNA chase a car chase? It's a bike chase surely?) but in the interests of not holding up this legislation any further I'm happy to go with it if that's the prevailing opinion of everyone else.
    w2bond wrote: »
    Maybe just "Driving inappropriately (fast) for the surroundings or terrain and pushing the limits of what the vehicle is capable of"?

    Because a chase on a highway may still be fast but still be at the speed limit.

    So if it involves a car/"street going vehicle" and say a boat or plane it will be a vehicular chase?

    This is a good point. Bond's driving in AVTAK taxi chase is not particularly fast but is certainly inappropriate for the environment and traffic conditions.

  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I'm satisfied with the distinction between a car chase and vehicular chase in the context of this discussion. The main issue I have with this is if one was to rank the car/vehicle/bike/bus/truck/train/half-car chases of the series, some of those lists would be quite short. And "rank the vehicle chases" doesn't have the same ring as "car chase"
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 669
    Agreed, @w2bond.

    @TheWizardOfIce: I’m not necessarily against having a car chase be labeled as “one car chasing another” but it seemed a bit limiting. On the other hand, I can certainly see wanting to limit it to that because, if you go by these definitions, the tank chase in GE is technically a car chase, yes? So maybe it really should just be cars chasing cars.
    EDIT: Nevermind. I think our "street-appropriate" requisite takes care of that issue.

    Another part of this definition occurred to me: We should probably mention duration (in terms of screen time). I hate to place an arbitrary number, but perhaps a scene must last a minimum of two (three?) minutes to be considered a car chase? I ask because Bond chasing LeChiffre in CR does, technically, meet all our criteria, but I would be hard-pressed to state that that movie has a car chase – because it’s over in 30 seconds. Thoughts?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Personally I'd refrain from putting a time stamp on it, and I do consider Bond following Le Chiffre as a carchase. Sure it's quickly over, but it's part of Le Chiffre's efficiency. If he hadn't dropped/put Vesper on the road it would've taken a lot longer (as it does in the novel, but that's besides the point).
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