Was Brosnan "short changed" during his Stint?

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    What are you referring to here? It sailed over my head.
    I just meant that it really doesn't matter to me what an actor says in an interview because I watch Bond for Bond, not the bloke who happens to be playing him.
    ;)
  • Posts: 15,127
    chrisisall wrote:
    What are you referring to here? It sailed over my head.
    I just meant that it really doesn't matter to me what an actor says in an interview because I watch Bond for Bond, not the bloke who happens to be playing him.
    ;)

    Yes but in that interview Brosnan spoke exactly about this, his time as Bond.
  • Posts: 908
    Brosnan got paid handsomely for being Bond. He wasn't shortchanged; we were.

    As for 'killing the franchise' I'd agree with that, but it's not meant literally. Sure, it was a big hit. It's just that creatively, once you have invisible cars and naff CGI, there's nowhere else to go, you can't turn back the clock. Yes, MR you could say was a tad similar - but only DAD killed the presumed timeline so that only a reboot was viable, starting from scratch. Admittedly I guess I'm factoring in the sheer hate that DAD amassed from fans since its release, which makes the 'killing franchise' stance a bit stronger.

    Surely it wouldn't have anything to do with the fact,that the very Concept of a reboot wasn't known at all. Hell,at this Time People were only learning, that that was how starting a PC was called. These days reboots are almost as common as sunrise, so it wasn't neither a very desperate,nor original move from EON ( but then again what has ever been?).
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    chrisisall wrote:
    What are you referring to here? It sailed over my head.
    I just meant that it really doesn't matter to me what an actor says in an interview because I watch Bond for Bond, not the bloke who happens to be playing him.
    ;)

    Fair enough, but I still must insist that what he does say supports some of the criticisms people have had regarding his performances and attitude as fair ones, that's all.

    @Willy- sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut! The most galling defense of DAD is saying it's better than any other Bond film save MR. That much is at least debatable. QOS is the more recent whipping boy around here, but I watched it again in it's entirety last night and even with all it's flaws in copying Bourne's action scenes and it's plot holes with Mathis and Fields, it is so much more Bondian in style and relevant in the real world. It makes me think, whereas camp and cartoon makes me groan and says "Matt Helm and Austin Powers, yes, Bond, no".

  • edited August 2013 Posts: 6,396
    chrisisall wrote:
    What are you referring to here? It sailed over my head.
    I just meant that it really doesn't matter to me what an actor says in an interview because I watch Bond for Bond, not the bloke who happens to be playing him.
    ;)

    Fair enough, but I still must insist that what he does say supports some of the criticisms people have had regarding his performances and attitude as fair ones, that's all.

    @Willy- sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut! The most galling defense of DAD is saying it's better than any other Bond film save MR. That much is at least debatable. QOS is the more recent whipping boy around here, but I watched it again in it's entirety last night and even with all it's flaws in copying Bourne's action scenes and it's plot holes with Mathis and Fields, it is so much more Bondian in style and relevant in the real world. It makes me think, whereas camp and cartoon makes me groan and says "Matt Helm and Austin Powers, yes, Bond, no".

    I'd go further. I don't think DAD is anywhere near the film MR is.

    Yes both are incredibly stupid but at least MR was well directed by Gilbert, great cinematography, Ken Adam's sets are stunning and Barry's score is wonderful. Plus it never takes itself seriously and remains tongue in cheek.

    DAD on the other hand had Tamahori at the helm, Halle Berry (who was billed as Brosnan's equal) and an ice palace that looked like it was made out of plastic.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    MR was well directed by Gilbert, great cinematography, Ken Adam's sets are stunning and Barry's score is wonderful. Plus it never takes itself seriously and remains tongue in cheek.
    I'll take a so-so serious tone in a not-so-good Bond movie over near all out spoof, thank you. :-?
  • chrisisall wrote:
    What are you referring to here? It sailed over my head.
    I just meant that it really doesn't matter to me what an actor says in an interview because I watch Bond for Bond, not the bloke who happens to be playing him.
    ;)

    Fair enough, but I still must insist that what he does say supports some of the criticisms people have had regarding his performances and attitude as fair ones, that's all.

    @Willy- sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut! The most galling defense of DAD is saying it's better than any other Bond film save MR. That much is at least debatable. QOS is the more recent whipping boy around here, but I watched it again in it's entirety last night and even with all it's flaws in copying Bourne's action scenes and it's plot holes with Mathis and Fields, it is so much more Bondian in style and relevant in the real world. It makes me think, whereas camp and cartoon makes me groan and says "Matt Helm and Austin Powers, yes, Bond, no".

    I'd go further. I don't think DAD is anywhere near the film MR is.

    Yes both are incredibly stupid and but MR was expertly directed, great cinematography, Ken Adam's sets are stunning and Barry's score is wonderful. Plus it never takes itself seriously and remains tongue in cheek.

    DAD is the complete opposite to all of the above.

    Those points about MR are indeed why I find more value personally in the film. It's funny though, because in the odd scenes where both films are serious and I maintain a few are to be found in DAD, they are enjoyable to that extent.

  • Posts: 15,127
    And at least MR had Longsdale. DAD had Toby Stephens. Serious quality drop. And MR dialogues were better.
  • Posts: 6,396
    chrisisall wrote:
    MR was well directed by Gilbert, great cinematography, Ken Adam's sets are stunning and Barry's score is wonderful. Plus it never takes itself seriously and remains tongue in cheek.
    I'll take a so-so serious tone in a not-so-good Bond movie over near all out spoof, thank you. :-?

    And I'll take the film that was directed by someone who knows his craft and not some third rate hack, thank you.
  • Ludovico wrote:
    And at least MR had Longsdale. DAD had Toby Stephens. Serious quality drop. And MR dialogues were better.

    Quality of character dialogue at least, yes, Lonsdale had some great lines to say. Actual actor performance, for me it's back to Limburger vs Fomunda cheese.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    chrisisall wrote:
    MR was well directed by Gilbert, great cinematography, Ken Adam's sets are stunning and Barry's score is wonderful. Plus it never takes itself seriously and remains tongue in cheek.
    I'll take a so-so serious tone in a not-so-good Bond movie over near all out spoof, thank you. :-?

    And I'll take the film that was directed by someone who knows his craft and not some third rate hack, thank you.

    Touche. :)>-
  • Posts: 6,396
    Ludovico wrote:
    And at least MR had Longsdale. DAD had Toby Stephens. Serious quality drop. And MR dialogues were better.

    Quality of character dialogue at least, yes, Lonsdale had some great lines to say. Actual actor performance, for me it's back to Limburger vs Fomunda cheese.

    I'm guessing that's a reference I'd understand if I was American ;-)
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Ludovico wrote:
    And at least MR had Longsdale. DAD had Toby Stephens. Serious quality drop. And MR dialogues were better.

    Quality of character dialogue at least, yes, Lonsdale had some great lines to say. Actual actor performance, for me it's back to Limburger vs Fomunda cheese.

    I'm guessing that's a reference I'd understand if I was American ;-)

    I can put it another way- is there a difference between day old and 2 day old shit? Both stink pretty bad.

  • edited August 2013 Posts: 11,189
    chrisisall wrote:
    MR was well directed by Gilbert, great cinematography, Ken Adam's sets are stunning and Barry's score is wonderful. Plus it never takes itself seriously and remains tongue in cheek.
    I'll take a so-so serious tone in a not-so-good Bond movie over near all out spoof, thank you. :-?

    And I'll take the film that was directed by someone who knows his craft and not some third rate hack, thank you.

    I agree, there are parts of DAD I like but a lot of it is flatout incompetent in terms of its execution. MR maybe a lot of things but I wouldn't describe it as incompetent.
  • Posts: 1,052
    I still to this day believe that everyone thought they were being a bit gritty and edgy when they made DAD, from the press and interviews at the time this is the impression I get and that is the saddest thing about it. I'm pretty sure everyone knew MR was barmy at the time.

    The thing with Brozzer is, does anyone really know what he actually said when being interviewed by Playboy, we all know that what gets printed isn't neccesarily the truth.

    As irrelevant as it all is I think he could have done a fith and final film, which may have repaired the damage. I think if you take DAD out of the equation the other 3 films are not bad.

  • Guess Brozzer suffered cos he looked like Bond so much, so iconic, that the producers got lazy and just dished out the same old stuff. At the time, Moore did not look like Bond, resembling neither Connery or Lazenby, so they did push the boat out. Ditto Craig, they at least made a bit of an effort to create something new.

    I feel that Mickey and Babs are good at the money and marketing but don't have a vision of movie making. Babs had the nouse to hire Craig when a good many wouldn't - she took a gamble and it paid off, but that's almost good business sense rather than 20/20 movie vision. Once Craig was hired, we got no sustained vision of where the franchise was heading. No six-year plan. I mean, we have Villiers in CR - what became of him? He was a bona fide Fleming character, portrayed as a lanky chinless wonder. Ditto Mathis, bumped off movie 2 for no real reason. Ditto Tanner - sure Rory Kinnear is a big name of sorts, but he's been given nothing in his two films to make him memorable - you compare that with Moneypenny or Q after two films back in the day.
  • Posts: 11,189
    At the time, Moore did not look like Bond, resembling neither Connery or Lazenby, so they did push the boat out.

    Really? I'd say by Moore's last film things were getting a bit lazy too. Moore had proved himself with audiences so the films started to feel more formulaic.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 19,339
    If you look at the 3 longest serving Bond's so far,ALL of their final films were not brilliant,although Moore's is the better one by far for me :

    Connery : DAF (23rd on my list)
    Moore : AVTAK (11th on my list)
    Brosnan : DAD (17th on my list)

    The patterns seem to be that the longer the actor goes on it seems to get a bit formulaic and lazy all round.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited August 2013 Posts: 11,139
    Was Brosnan short changed?? Hmmmm, I think as others have mentioned before that Brosnan was cast purely from a business perspective (a shallow one) rather than for sincere creative reasons. He was a fan favourite and it was a role he was desperate for and the producers knew this.
    Last night I watched this interview he gave as part of the promotion for TWINE and his answers to some of the questions to me showed that Brosnan was a "yes"man and that the producers didn't hold the same respect for him the way they did with his predecessors and Craig especially. All Brosnan had to do was show up, say the lines, look the part and Voila!

    That being said, I think Brosnan fulfilled the criteria of what the producers wanted at the time and believed to be comfortable with, and where this may look as though Brosnan shoulders any blame that maybe found in the eyes of the fans I think creatively, the producers should suffer the wrath instead or at least most of it. Brosnan was just too much of a fanboy who IMO lacked the artistic credibility as an actor to really inhabit the role and take the character and the series to new heights. This is evidenced by many of the interviews he gave where it was clear as to why Brosnan didn't have a voice behind the scenes or any sort of creative worth that the producers could seriously acknowledge. I don't think Brosnan deserved the nonsense the producers felt nevessary to dish out but as mentioned I think he did the job that was asked of him, it just so happens that the job didn't require anything particularly special.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 12,837
    And what you deem as "bashing" are usually fair criticisms and opinions that people are entitled to have.

    Lots of members, like yourself, give fair criticisms but then there are others who just seem desperate to slag him off.

    There are times it doesn't seem that far above CraigisnotBond. I once read a post on here (can't remember who, probably Getafix or someone) saying that they used to have his face pinned up on a dartboard.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    That may have been a very bad joke of mine. Needless to say, I don't.
  • Well, Brozzer had to be a yes man, it's written into the actor's contract most likely. He's on a press junket.

    I think he fell out with Babs on the shambolic making of TND, or so I read once. He did try to go behind their backs by talking to Tarantino about CR, and that would have done it for him frankly... He also amiably griped about how they could have gone for bigger name directors like Ang Lee at the time, admitting 'I'm just the hired hand though...' There wasn't much he could do, he had no leverage.

    As for Moore, I meant they pushed the boat out for his early films, and also for OP which competed with NSNA. It's like they knew he wasn't the real Bond (that was Connery) so they gave it more to compensate, an enjoyable outcome for Moore fans who liked him anyway.
  • Samuel001 wrote:
    That may have been a very bad joke of mine. Needless to say, I don't.

    Oh. Fair enough then :)
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