Does Spectre actually make any sense?

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  • edited September 2016 Posts: 11,189
    Yes, there's two GoldenEye sattelites. Petya and Mishca and presumably they could be only be fired once (why I don't know). The first was fired on Seveneya as a test and Trevelyan was planning on firing the second over London.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Since the GoldenEye satellites are EMP bombs, it's likely they would get fried after one use. Plus it can be assumed they are nuclear warheads designed to be detonated from space.
  • Posts: 15,117
    A bomb can used only once. Given the damage a Goldeneye can make, you only need to detonate it once.
  • Posts: 1,296
    Yes hello I have a question, who is the narrator of the song GOLDENEYE written by Bono and produced by Nina Simone, I am just wondering what you think, it's a gender-flipped version of Alec by any chance? There are some dark lyrics about playgrounds, leather and lace, slip n slide childhood antics and S&M shenangians. Does it make any sense?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Few Bond songs make any sense.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    I won't change the GE discussion yet - it's still got some way to go.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    What a funny thread.

    I'll say this. None of the Bond movies does make much sense, except maybe FRWL.

    It's fiction and the cinematic Bond was early on a fantasy/thriller genre later mixed with comedy and OTT action.

    The plot is not expected to make perfect sense, Bond never takes itself too seriously.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,399
    GE only makes just enough sense for the plot not to collapse in on itself - but what else can we expect from a Bruce Fierstein script? lol
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    most of my inconsistency gripes with GE have already been mentioned here... so, in lieu of regurgitating the same things over again, i will only briefly touch upon 2 of them..

    Bond bungee jumping down into a canyon - only to end up on top of a mountain when he's escaping the facility..... we don't know the specific layout of said chemical facility, and it could very well be that Bond used a roundabout way into the facility - in layman's terms, breaking into the basement in order to get to the top floor.. we are only shown a brief montage showing him bungee down a dam, laser through a sealed air duct, and then exit out into a bathroom - there could've been a lot between points B and C there that they didn't show us.... but even still, it is jarring juxtaposition..

    What was the end game to Trevelyan faking his death?... Others have dissected this scenario to death, and better than i ever could.. obviously him and Orumov were in cahoots - but did Orumov's soldiers at the base know of this deception as well, were they kind of a rouge set of troops (like in Die Hard 2)??... but could there not have been an easier way to enact his revenge plot on England? - or was the whole hiding for 9 years, and becoming the mysterious head of a criminal organization in that span of time (9 years) and waiting for the right moment for the Tiger helicopter to get invented so they could steal it and eventually steal the Goldeneye all part of this clever "air tight" plan from the beginning.....

    i always thought that an interesting way to view all of that, was maybe Alec was a good guy and really did get shot by Orumov, but somehow managed to survive (kind of like Renard), and Bond leaving him to die ate away at him for years, so he formed an alliance with Orumov so he could get revenge............. but that wouldn't make sense, as Alec's revenge plot had been in place since he was a kid - which really makes you stop and think.....................
  • Posts: 2,341
    GE make sense?
    Of course it does:
    It makes sense that it is the high water mark of the Brosnan era
    It makes sense that it ranks in the top 5-6 of most people's "Best Bond Films list"
    It makes sense as it is the last one that Cubby had his hands on...
    It makes sense why after GE the Brosnan films progressively got worst.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I was under the impression Cubby didn't have as big of a role in GE due to ill health
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    w2bond wrote: »
    I was under the impression Cubby didn't have as big of a role in GE due to ill health

    no he didn't... he took a back seat and let BB and MGW have the reigns.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    Since the GoldenEye satellites are EMP bombs, it's likely they would get fried after one use. Plus it can be assumed they are nuclear warheads designed to be detonated from space.

    Exactly.

    All they are is basically nuclear warheads floating in orbit. Granted a nuclear bomb is quite heavy but putting one in orbit, when set against the context of the arms race, would hardly be prohibitively expensive.

    I think the script is pretty clear that there are only two and that once London had gone Alec would have nothing in his locker. Presumably once he'd done it he would sit in his lair counting all his filthy lucre that was now worthless?

    And I doubt very much if the US would invade Cuba as the world would be too busy dealing with a global financial meltdown but even if they did 'mad little Alec' would have his revenge and surely that is more important to him than money as he seems to be rich enough to build a classic villains lair. Or is the Cuba facility owned by the Russians and Ouromov gave him the key? Natalya certainly alludes to this when she says 'like your secret transmitters in New Zealand' as if we Russian have similar facilities in Cuba.

  • edited October 2019 Posts: 1,469
    GE is on TV right now here in the U.S. on This TV (to be followed by TND). Always love the opening sequence, especially the dam jump stunt! Here's a link to an article with great interviews on the opening sequence. I have a few minor quibbles with GE but it remains highly watchable for me--lots of great touches.
    https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/goldeneye-oral-history/
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    It makes about as much sense as 20 of the other Bond films, and 99% of other films. If we dissect any of them piece by piece we will find inconsistencies.
  • Posts: 1,469
    Watching GE right now (on TV again). It seems to me that, in GE, Brosnan play Bond more to type, less emotional, more straight-forward and businesslike, and with less humor than in his later films. I don't know if anyone agrees. I'm not saying I dislike his performance in later films, just that I especially like his performance in GE.
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    edited October 2019 Posts: 2,635
    And I doubt very much if the US would invade Cuba as the world would be too busy dealing with a global financial meltdown but even if they did 'mad little Alec' would have his revenge and surely that is more important to him than money as he seems to be rich enough to build a classic villains lair. Or is the Cuba facility owned by the Russians and Ouromov gave him the key? Natalya certainly alludes to this when she says 'like your secret transmitters in New Zealand' as if we Russian have similar facilities in Cuba.

    I see your point there, and I tend to agree; I thought about that a long time ago. Why would Alec spend so much freaking money on an underground base instead of just keeping it for himself? He would have so much more millions on his bank account - and that would have been even better for him, as his lucre after the EMP blast would become useless.

    More to the point M has presumably sent them on this mission? Can anyone tell me why this is such a tough mission it requires the unprecedented step of two 00s?

    Infiltrate somewhere, set some charges, get out. That's page one of the 00 handbook. They do this sort of stuff in their sleep.

    I would have to agree with this as well. That's all part of the plot, obviously. But I just tried to come up with a better intro.

    What if Alec was not a field agent but an undercover scientist working on the facility throughout a considerable time so that he could help Bond infiltrate it easier by making a path for him? Basically, he could be Dr. Doak.
    Then he could have been "randomly" killed by Ourumov during the firefight - that would have been a better plot.
    If you guys ever wonder why, Alec as a scientist could actually check what were Ourumov's plans and hand them over to MI-6. That could be only a part of the whole investigation.

  • Posts: 1,469
    2 things stand out to me right now.
    1) In St. Petersburg, Bond in the tank sees Natalya, Ouromov and Onatopp get on Alec's train, which then goes speeding down the tracks, presumably for miles, and then we see Bond in the tank blocking the tracks. How could he've gotten there so fast.
    2) If Boris is such a computer expert, why is his riddle password only a simple 5-letter word.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Roadphill wrote: »
    It makes about as much sense as 20 of the other Bond films, and 99% of other films. If we dissect any of them piece by piece we will find inconsistencies.

    Reality is often stranger than fiction, after all people make stupid things all the time. So yeah, the inconsistencies which one may find by dissecting a movie piece by piece are not that absurd.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Terrible film. Completely overrated.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Getafix wrote: »
    Terrible film. Completely overrated.

    Yeah because that totally answers the question of this thread. What a pointless contribution to this thread.
  • Posts: 1,917
    I figured the "you'll find inconsistencies in all the films" defense would come out. I see many in GE, which is a sacred cow to many but not to me and therefore I can pick out those problems easier.

    I realize it was a lot of people's introduction to Bond and has a special place for them, but as a longtime fan, it still doesn't come close to the freshness and excitement I found with the introductory films of Dalton and Craig. I felt they were actually trying to do something fresh with the character and series in TLD and CR and with GE it was like "here's what you like about Bond, so here it is again in the style of the other popular action films of the day."

    No, let's not stop with Bond escaping Archangel, let's have him dive off a cliff and fly into a plane.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 11,425
    Surely the flying into the plane sequence is one of the worst in film history. People bang on about the kite surfing in DAD but ignore the fact that the action in the Brosnan films was just awful from the very first PTS. Could add the helicopter flying on its side in TND and the dire hover skiing sequence in TWINE.

    I haven't actually watched GE all the way through since it came out on VHS tbh, so may not be best qualified to comment on the plot. I don't remember being that bothered by the story - it was more the generic cheapness of it and the fact I felt Brosnan was so inferior to any of his predecessors. Also the cartoonishness of the characters. Famke, Robby Coltrane and Sean Bean are all good actors but they seem to be in a Sunday afternoon BBC crime drama.

    It has few redeeming qualities (if any) for me, but I wouldn't actually say a lack of narrative coherence was it's primary fault.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Maybe watch the movie in full before you review it.
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    edited October 2019 Posts: 2,635
    Murdock wrote: »
    Yeah because that totally answers the question of this thread. What a pointless contribution to this thread.

    The kind of thing we should totally ignore.

    --

    Another inconsistency I find is when Bond tries to run to the helicopter while it is taking off. What 007 was even trying to do? He wouldn't stop it anyways.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    X3MSonicX wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Yeah because that totally answers the question of this thread. What a pointless contribution to this thread.


    The kind of thing we should totally ignore.

    Hard to ignore when it's been going on for almost a decade. =))
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 11,425
    Murdock wrote: »
    Maybe watch the movie in full before you review it.

    I have seen it in full. Twice. More than enough.

    You act like you're Brosnan's personal bodyguard or something. It's only an online forum. Criticism of the actors and their films is par for the course
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 1,469
    The way I look at it is, GE is a good entertaining movie. I'll watch even the Bond films I rank lowest if they're on TV. To me, Bond is often better than no Bond. I think I rank GE somewhere between 10 and 15 on the list, so I think the film has a lot going for it. However, while I find Brosnan was serviceable/believable as Bond, he's my least favorite Bond, and I agree with those who say other Bond actors may've been trying to do more with the part than Brosnan or were more naturally suited to it, though I don't know how much Brosnan tried to craft the role to himself or vice versa. And I do think the Brosnan years of Bond film production were more fallow...not sure how much of that was due to scriptwriters, overall production, or "the times" in general. Still, I say good entertainment if you don't look too deep.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    If it doesn't, it's a textbook example of not needing to. It's one of the most entertaining Bond films (IMO), and it follows it's own internal logic enough to not take you out. All comes together to be one of the most fantastic entries in the 24 films.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited October 2019 Posts: 1,711
    I don't really like Goldeneye much (it's my second-least favorite Bond film), and I agree with some that the film makes no sense whatsoever. It's been pointed out, but it's worth repeating: nobody anywhere has any idea what is actually going on when Ourumov shoots Trevelyan in the PTS. It's a nonsensical start to a plot Bond stumbles upon by chance after the title sequence.

    That said, Bond movies are generally light enough to be nonsensical, so it's not fatal to the film. For me, the turgid melodrama and underwhelming action ruin it.

    But then having said that, the repeated defence that most Bond movies are as nonsensical as this one is just not true. There are little, and legitimate, nitpicks one can make (how did Drax build his space station without being noticed?), but I can't think of any Bond film where fundamental questions of motive, opportunity, or indeed, what the hell is even going on, are as opaque as in Goldeneye.
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