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Which Bond film is the most intellectually and/or emotionally engaging?

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    The problem with these later entries is their pretentiousness. OHMSS or LTK had a tormented Bond as well but they weren't shouting at their audiences: "Can you see how we're giving 007 all this depth? Look at us being meaningful."

    But......I find this a bit of flawed reasoning really. I mean, when can a director infuse themes without being too obvious or too pretentious. Never? Do you have examples of directors who actually can do that?

    In my personal opinion Sam Mendes is a great director who, as of late, is being a tiny bit belittled. I mean, does anyone know Mendes' filmography? Movies like "Revolutionary Road" and "American Beauty" were applauded, because of its deeper underlying themes. He actually does the very same thing with "Skyfall" and "SPECTRE" and there you go again; the simple, popcorn-craving minds of many Bond fans in here start complaining again.

    Too me, the themes of "SPECTRE" and "Skyfall" were beautifully interwoven into the plot, without the pretentiousness. I do think however that all the constant analizing of Bond films makes many Bond fans think that these last two Bond films are pretentious. It's a bit unfair I think.

    "OHMSS" and "LTK" are wonderful films. They indeed showed Bond as well as a tormented human being. But these films didn't go into the deep with regard to other themes? Themes like 'the necessity of espionage', a world in which 'villains are in the shadows', themes of 'young vs old', 'the rise of hacking and leaks' and 'undemocratic destruction of privacy'.........are themes I did not see or could discover in movies like "LTK" or "OHMSS". So it makes the last two Mendes Bond films even more unique, more interesting to discuss about.

    Heck, the very reason we keep discussing "SPECTRE" and "Skyfall" makes you really think Sam Mendes pulled it off. I will miss the man. And the next Bond director is going to fill some very big shoes.

    Watch CR and then come back and ask 'I mean, when can a director infuse themes without being too obvious or too pretentious. Never? Do you have examples of directors who actually can do that?'

    Campbell just has a good actor looking in a mirror after a horrifically brutal fight in which he's just choked a bloke to death and we understand everything.

    If Mendes had directed it there would have been a neon sign on the bathroom wall saying 'Bond is wondering about the toll this tough job takes on his soul'.

    The fact that the guy has such a bob on himself is evident by a proper GB not being allowed to interfere with a Sam Mendes opening be it an underwhelming opening shot ('look folks Bond walks down a corridor and by the end of it he is in focus. Isn't that cool? Certainly worth sacrificing the GB for?') or hitting us round the head with the subtlety of his themes ('The dead are alive'. Trust me folks that's got a really clever double meaning later. It's not just about the day of the dead parade.')

    Themes like 'the necessity of espionage'? Oh yeah Campbell already did that too in GE. Where both people in the film ('relic of the cold war') and in real life ('Now the Soviet Union has collapsed Bond is finished') were saying that Bond was redundant.

    Campbell showed that actually when the shit is hitting the fan you can still depend on one man.

    Mendes is just a Campbell tribute act with a better DOP isn't he?
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Campbell showed that actually when the shit is hitting the fan you can still depend on one man.
    Yes he did in spades
    As for Mendes being a Campbell tribute act with a better DOP I have often thought that to be the case. But until now haven't had the guts to say so
    Thanks Wizard .
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Campbell showed that actually when the shit is hitting the fan you can still depend on one man.
    Yes he did in spades
    As for Mendes being a Campbell tribute act with a better DOP I have often thought that to be the case. But until now haven't had the guts to say so
    Thanks Wizard .

    No need to be scared mate! Mendes was exposed as wearing the Emperor's New Clothes with this:


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Hey! I LIKED that 'splosion! :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I like how the two leads happen to be conveniently standing there with a perfect vantage point looking at the complex just as the explosion occurs. They then admire it in all its glory in awe. Mendes was so proud of this moment of genius that he wanted to have an audience for it even in the final film.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    God, he isn't half cringey in that video...
  • Comte_de_BleuchampComte_de_Bleuchamp
    Posts: 382
    He could have done it in with miniatures and given the money to charity... Profligate fellow
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Comte_de_Bleuchamp wrote: »
    He could have done it in with miniatures and given the money to charity... Profligate fellow

    That would've been nice wouldn't it. And you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.

    Just glad Mendes wasn't directing GE or EON would still be paying off the bill to rebuild the Arecibo observatory.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,306
    I just think Mendes never got the character of Bond right. I don't buy the family manse in SF and I don't buy the pajamas in SP. I also really didn't need to see Bond's apartment again.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Birdleson wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I just think Mendes never got the character of Bond right. I don't buy the family manse in SF and I don't buy the pajamas in SP. I also really didn't need to see Bond's apartment again.

    That's true enough!

    I thought it was slightly surreal seeing Bond at his home wearing an old fashioned shirt and shoulder holster, but next to a very modern TV.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    It's difficult finding an answer.

    I'm pretty sure the one movie that is neither must be Moonraker. It has the silliest plot of the series and is merely pure fun.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    echo wrote: »
    I just think Mendes never got the character of Bond right. I don't buy the family manse in SF and I don't buy the pajamas in SP. I also really didn't need to see Bond's apartment again.

    The literary Bond hated pajamas of course.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I just think Mendes never got the character of Bond right. I don't buy the family manse in SF and I don't buy the pajamas in SP. I also really didn't need to see Bond's apartment again.

    That's true enough!

    I thought it was slightly surreal seeing Bond at his home wearing an old fashioned shirt and shoulder holster, but next to a very modern TV.

    He had to have a modern TV (likely a Sony brand) so that we could see M's video clearly without a fuzzy picture. ;)

    If the plot didn't necessitate him showing the video to MP, I don't think Bond would have a TV at all. How often is he home to flick it on, and would he really care about catching any entertainment on the TV living the fast and furious life he does? I think not.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Bond strikes me as the kind of guy who records Top Gear repeats on Dave and watches them when he gets back from whatever mission he's been on (or just a mundane paperwork day) to unwind.
  • Comte_de_BleuchampComte_de_Bleuchamp
    edited September 2016 Posts: 382
    Bond would never watch Top Gear.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Bond watching TG??? my head just exploded, no and thrice no, what next, Bake Off?
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Just jesting.

    But out of interest, what do we think Bond actually watches? I mean, he must watch something considering the presence of a rather pricey TV in his apartment. Probably sticks on BBC News now and then. That's about it on my end.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited September 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I think Bond would probably watch documentaries and/or the BBC news mostly.

    I could see him watching mainly factual based stuff than fiction.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    TV is so dumbed down these days that, unless we assume Bond has dumbed down, I dont think he should have a TV. He has a laptop to stream news channels from around the World etc, I just cant see him pooring himself a scotch and channel surfing, surely a good book would be more his style?
  • Comte_de_BleuchampComte_de_Bleuchamp
    Posts: 382
    Old films.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    patb wrote: »
    TV is so dumbed down these days that, unless we assume Bond has dumbed down, I dont think he should have a TV. He has a laptop to stream news channels from around the World etc, I just cant see him pooring himself a scotch and channel surfing, surely a good book would be more his style?

    I can believe this.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Carry on.....?
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Camping, everytime. For all the knockers.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    He'd be more likely to look for facts rather than (media) entertainment.
  • Comte_de_BleuchampComte_de_Bleuchamp
    Posts: 382
    ...Bond . I don't think he would watch one of Roger Moore's flicks @patb
  • patbpatb
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,617
    Carry on Spying :-)
    PS There is still a weight that comes with books and literature that you cant get from film or TV. So when M quotes a poem in SF, it had weight to it (I know some hate that scene) but she did not quote from a movie. Its a good trick (used well in ST6 as Plumber loves quoting Shakespeare) and we can assume that Bond had a classic style of education where he would learn to love or appreciate books. So seeing books in his flat to me would seem natuaral but seeing a 50 inch Sony LED somehow does not sit right. Its a bit too mainstream. Bond sits above the populace. It also then makes him a more aspirational character, we all know we should read more and we all know we should not be wastimg time watching meaningless drivel on the TV. I want to look up to Bond in this area and not think that he is also wasting his time.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    patb wrote: »
    Carry on Spying :-)

    It was too easy ;)
  • patbpatb
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,617
    delate
  • GBFGBF
    edited September 2016 Posts: 3,197
    Comte_de_Bleuchamp wrote: »
    ...Bond . I don't think he would watch one of Roger Moore's flicks @patb

    Roger as Bond would probably do that....
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    GBF wrote: »
    Comte_de_Bleuchamp wrote: »
    ...Bond . I don't think he would watch one of Roger Moore's flicks @patb

    Roger as Bond would probably do that....

    Roger as Bond would watch a Connery film and say to himself "handsome fellow" with a grin on his face.
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