The World Is Not Enough appreciation thread

Agent007391 · October 2011

I've gotta say, I like TND more. I think the story of the news controlling the world was, at the time, more relevant. Oil is more relevant today, and if TWINE was made today, it might make more sense. But media control was far more relevant in the mid-to-late 90s than oil.

Baltimore_007 · October 2011

Even at the time of release, whether relevant to world affairs or otherwise, having some Bond nemesis trying to orchestrate World War III simply in need of TV ratings/rights seems a lame idea in retrospect. Pryce can do better work than this, and is clearly underused here and provides no threat whatsoever apart from a few random threats and don't get me started on the Hatcher character. Bottom line is, best Brosnan movie is 1999's Enough, here endeth the lesson

Agent007391 · October 2011

I was never a good student.

echo · October 2011

M had a personal stake in this affair which is why it works in the movie, indeed her presence is needed. I do not understand the complains about the use of Dench for M, she is an excellent actress who is needed in the movie. I think it is the personal fear of female authority by certain members that drives them to condemn Lady Dench's M. Sure the M from the SC period is excellent but after a while there needs to be change, which was a good choice.

I agree with you completely about Dench, especially in this film. She is the one who gives King the bad advice, so it is very appropriate that Elektra draw her deeply into the plot.

Dench is one of the finest actresses working today (and a continued casting coup), so it is logical that Eon keeps her happy and engaged, sending M on location, etc. Say what you will about the previous Ms--none of them had as widespread critical acclaim as Dame Dench.

For me, the weaknesses in the film (aside from Richards) are largely second unit ones. Aside from the PTS, which is spectacular, the ski chase and the caviar factory scene are uninspired. And even though I understand why Renard was necessary (if nothing else, to hide Elektra's involvement from Bond--but then why name her Elektra?!?), I think it would have been a stronger film if Marceau (a fine actress) had been allowed to take center stage on her own.

Agent007391 · October 2011

I don't necessarily think it was bad advice that M gave King. M and King were operating under the assumption that the kidnappers had Electra and were going to kill her if they didn't get the money. Since they had no reason to believe that she had seduced Renard, they were also operating under the assumption that they'd kill Electra even if they got the money. They probably had a lesser of two evils thing going on, believing that not paying the kidnappers and losing Electra was better (not necessarily good, but better) than paying the criminals and still losing Electra.

thelordflasheart · October 2011

I had recently started to rewatch the Brosnan films as I've not seen any of them since they first came out (once in theatres, once on video). I'm saving GE for last as it was my favourite; I started with TND and then saw TWINE about a month ago.

My feelings on the two films have reversed since I first watched them. Originally I liked TWINE far more than TND, Now I like TND more. When I think of TWINE my first thought is "Well, at least they tried..."

TWINE seems to have more extremes of good and bad than any other Bond film that I can think of save DAD. Here's a quick breakdown and, of course, this is just my opinion:

The Bad

Most lame action sequences, especially the parahawk attack and Brosnan sliding away from an explosion more slowly than he could have run.
Brosnan trying way too hard to act well and failing.
Renard is not at all imposing or believable as a threat.
Renard's inability to feel pain under-used.
Lame jokes that fall flat "I came prepared for a cold reception".
Lack of beautiful scenery - either the location isn't pretty (like the overhead shot of Bond driving through the oilfields) or they just aren't shot well).
A really "down" tone to the film.
A serious relationship for Bond that seems rushed and unearned.
Richards as a scientist (she's great to look at and could have worked in a different role).
Completely forgettable score other than a couple of cues of the title song.

The Good

Bond killing Elektra was Brosnan's finest moment and one of the best lines in the series
Elektra was a great character and very well-played by Marceau
M's personal stakes in the situation were well-used.
Zuhovsky was a welcome return (if a lot of his lines were redundant)
The pre-title sequence that went on and on was actually an interesting change.
The title song was a far better return to the sweeping, more romantic sound of the past - far better than GE or TND.
Brosnan's over-acting was laughably bad at points but he did seem much more comfortable in the role in the scenes were he was just "being" as oppoed to "acting".

There were some good ideas in the film and I think that better actors and a better director really could have sold it. Had it been shot more glamorously, tightened up, dropped a couple of bad jokes, had some recasting and a better action scene director (the ideas were fine, it was just the execution that was off) it could have been fantastic.

Agent007391 · October 2011

The pre-title sequence that went on and on was actually an interesting change.

When I first saw it, I actually wondered if there was going to be a title sequence.

QBranch · October 2011

Just re-watched TWINE and I still love it just as much.

The scene where Renard meets Davidov and Arkov at the Devil's Breath is reminiscent of the scene in FRWL where you think the main villain's going to kill one henchman, but kills the other. Renard has Arkov killed instead of Davidov, and Blofeld has Kronsteen killed instead of Klebb. I never made that connection before. I think it happens in YOLT, as well.

Oh, and at the end of these films, why is M always surprised to see Bond getting it on with the girl?!

Here's some lines that stood out:

Remember, shadows stay in front or behind- never on top!

I'm looking for a submarine. It's big and black, and the driver is a very good friend of mine!

Agent007391 · October 2011

The scene where Renard meets Davidov and Arkov at the Devil's Breath is reminiscent of the scene in FRWL where you think the main villain's going to kill one henchman, but kills the other. Renard has Arkov killed instead of Davidov, and Blofeld has Kronsteen killed instead of Klebb. I never made that connection before. I think it happens in YOLT, as well.

Oh, and at the end of these films, why is M always surprised to see Bond getting it on with the girl?!

Point One: I never noticed that at all, but I rarely look for connections between Bond films except for between Die Another Day and the previous nineteen.

Saying of which: Die Another Day referencing TWINE (novel): Q mentions in DAD that Bond's watch is his 20th, and a similar scene occurs in the TWINE novel where Q gives bond his 19th watch.

Point Two: Why is M surprised? Y'know, I don't really know, because she didn't seem surprised at all when Bond "misused" the girl she sent to evaluate Bond in GoldenEye.

The_Reaper · October 2011

I like it overall but it feels like a missed opportunity at times. The PTS is great but a bit longish, the villian in cool in theory but then they do nothing with him. Here's a guy that can feel no pain and yet Bond has no chance to actually hurt him in any way that might be construed as excessive. What? Why not have Bond stab him in the stomach and then the guy keeps coming? Have Bond shoot him in the shoulder but it doesn't stop him. Etc, etc.

I like that Electra turns out to be a villian, that's a nice twist and Sophie is a great actress. I love the return of Robbie Coltrane's character. He's a great ally/antagonist for Brosnan's Bond. And of course this is Desmond's last turn as Q and that is a great scene where he says, "Always have an escape plan."

I can't think of much else to appreciate. It's mediocre. Sorry.

PanchitoPistoles · October 2011

Elektra King = worst Bond girl of all time. Yes, even worse than Jinx.

Samuel001 · October 2011

Elektra King = worst Bond girl of all time. Yes, even worse than Jinx.

And Christmas?

The acting was good at least from Sophie Marceau.

thelordflasheart · October 2011

Elektra King = worst Bond girl of all time. Yes, even worse than Jinx.

I don't think that I've ever heard that opinion before - I've heard some people refer to her character as a "b*tch" but not "worst Bond girl". Can you elaborate on why you feel that way?

HASEROT · October 2011

THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH, is quite the curious case indeed.... i feel like it's a film that really doesn't know what it wants to be at times... gripping and personal spy drama, or traditional Bond film??... it had a steady balance of both, and it felt like they weren't confident in either direction - and decided to split it right down the middle... and in the end, we get a film that had some great moments, and also some bad moments..

Brosnan really carries this film, and does a great job bringing a more personal edge to this film.. you really get the feeling that he believes Elektra's story, gets duped, and wants to put the b!@#$ down - i always think of the scene, where Bond first confront Renard in the bunker, where Renard is chastising and taunting Bond while being held at gunpoint, and you can see the anger boiling over in Bond - "How does it feel, to know that I broke her in for you??" - then BAM! pistol whipped!, this is one the dramatic highlights of the film for me - along with when Bond confronts Elektra, accusing her and insisting that she "drop the act.. it's over." - and also when Bond finally puts her down, after she tries to warn Renard that Bond is on the way.... terrific performances are also turned in by Sophie Marceau, Robert Carlyle, and Robbie Coltrane...

it's hard to not watch this film, and be affected by the abusing use that the later films do with M... but at the time, it was novel to feature M as such a prominent cog to the story's plot - and that is why in this film it still works, and she doesn't seem to overstay her welcome - where it fails in later films is that they have to squeeze her in whenever possible, like she she has to hold Bond's hand through every plot detail... i dont feel as annoyed by her in this film though - unlike her 'mother hen' like role in the films to come..

I think where this film falters, in is some of the minor details, and in the decision to cast Denise Richards as Nuclear Scientist - it's not me being sexist in anyway, I am sure many lovely women work in that field.. but ladies, Denise Richards was just your on screen representation - I would not be amused... obviously casted for her flash in the pan fame of WILD THINGS at the time - I guess they needed something to draw in a few teenage hornballs. lol... The character of Mr Bullion was pretty useless - although he did have an amusing death at the hands of Valetine..

overall, i enjoy TWINE - it's an interesting exercise with the Bond formula (for it's time) and I think it does a good job of entertaining, and having an intriguing complex story of 'who is really playing who?', while still maintaining that good ol' Bond flair..

calfex · October 2011

Elektra King = worst Bond girl of all time. Yes, even worse than Jinx.

Elektra King is the worst of Bond Girl? I don't think so. I think for the Brosnan's era as Bond, Elektra can't be categorized as bad. I even say that she's quite stunning and menacing character, and Sophie Marceau done her best here. Moreover, it should be Sophie Marceau that took the role as leading Bond Girl; she's better than Denise Richards. For me the minus side for TWINE is that the main Bond Girl (Dr. Christmas Jones) played by Denise Richards can't cope with the other predecessors and yet she can't portrayed the Bond Girl as good as the others.

DarthDimi · October 2011

I have a hard time understanding why participants see The World Is Not Enough as the worst Brosnan effort, every time I see it it rises above his other three entries as the most plausible Bond and focused, target driven etc

Need to disagree here. Compared to the three star menu that GE serves, TWINE is at best a dry hamburger that takes an hour or two to chew down, IMO. You say plausible, I say the opposite of that, what with M taking all the risks she does and pulling a MacGuyver on us towards the end and whatnot. Oh and the world is a big place but naturally the sub's driver is a relative of Valentin's... I'm afraid the screenplay and story often abandon maturity, common sense and political logic in favor of dull formulaic and borderline cartoonish plot elements and unsurprising plot twists. After TND, P&W (and Apted) felt they had to bring back the more serious Bond, which they interpreted as the need for an intricate, dramatic story. But they overstayed their welcome in the sense that TWINE tries so hard to be complex but looses logic in the process. The film hopes to touch the human side of Bond but instead creates an incoherent mess. Even the film's novelist couldn't figure out what went on aboard the sub during the film's climax for example. This tube goes in that hole, that button makes these lights flicker... My only incentive for reading the novel was to understand a few things better but instead it demonstrated that even Benson got lost in all the techno hocus pocus towards the end of the film. I will give the film credit for its PTS, Q's goodbye scene and some of the acting, but I find it an overall boring Shakespeare wannabe, covered in artistic douchebaggery and lacking a certain freshness that even DAD was able to give me. There's little to no fuel in this film, no tension to propel us from one scene to the next, the action is underwhelming and Arnold composed what is handsdown his worst score to date.

All of this is IMO of course. ;;)

HASEROT · October 2011

...and Arnold composed what is handsdown his worst score to date.

even worse than his bland score to Tomorrow Never Dies? or his techno clown vomit called the score to Die Another Day?... granted both scores have their points of light IMO - but i consider his efforts on TND and DAD far worse.

Agent007391 · October 2011

Y'know, I don't think that TWINE was Brosnan's WORST movie, that "honor" goes to DAD, but I do feel that TWINE was below par for a Bond movie.

DarthDimi · October 2011

...and Arnold composed what is handsdown his worst score to date.
even worse than his bland score to Tomorrow Never Dies? or his techno clown vomit called the score to Die Another Day?... granted both scores have their points of light IMO - but i consider his efforts on TND and DAD far worse.

All of this is IMO of course. ;;)

;;)

For me, personally, Arnold's TND, TWINE and DAD are all flawed. However, when I consider the plus points and minuses of these three, stricto senso TWINE is the most underwhelming of Arnold's scores for me. I like the PTS music and the theme song. I like the romantic theme - Elektra's theme - and the unused Only Myself To Blame. However, the rest is mostly disappointing for me. From the 'one last screw' scene on, Arnold seems to have lost complete control over his orchestra. With or without my headphones, I can't help being extremely distracted by some of those unbelievably piercing, deafening, noisy screams of the instruments.

karatemanchan37 · October 2011

The thing that seperates Arnold's score in TWINE from TND and DAD was the actual theme. I personally loved, like someone already said, the more romantic and orchesteral sound the song has and I think, compared to the bland Sheryl Crow or worse, Madonna, Garbage did a wonderful job.

Luds · October 2011

Wow, a TWINE appreciation thread.

OK, what;s good about TWINE?
Well the PTS is by far the best one of the dark days known as the Brosnan era, the Q boat is cool, the villain is quite pleasing to the eye as well.

What else? Hum, the title song isn't that bad, it's certainly in the lower tier, but with Garbage I expected much worse. Not particularly good is the last Q scene, very sad to see him go. The return of Valentin, a decent character. And maybe Robert Carlyle, a tremendous actor wasted in such a forgettable part, but he's still the star in every scene he's in. Name-wise, Sophie Marceau was cast, and well, it may be her wort performance to date, but I can't fault only her acting for this, the writing may be one of the worst in Bond history.

I really can't say anything positive or mildly decent about the movie other than this.

forgotmyusername · October 2011

Wow, a TWINE appreciation thread.

OK, what;s good about TWINE?
Well the PTS is by far the best one of the dark days known as the Brosnan era, the Q boat is cool, the villain is quite pleasing to the eye as well.

What else? Hum, the title song isn't that bad, it's certainly in the lower tier, but with Garbage I expected much worse. Not particularly good is the last Q scene, very sad to see him go. The return of Valentin, a decent character. And maybe Robert Carlyle, a tremendous actor wasted in such a forgettable part, but he's still the star in every scene he's in. Name-wise, Sophie Marceau was cast, and well, it may be her wort performance to date, but I can't fault only her acting for this, the writing may be one of the worst in Bond history.

I really can't say anything positive or mildly decent about the movie other than this.

Come on Luds, TWINE is a cracking Bond film for PB. There was lots to like about this outing, I find TND complete tosh.

I like the fluff that was Christmas and I liked the twisted Electra, they mirrored each other - nice subtext. Carlyle was the worst bit of the movie, the accent did it for me, awful and the other thing is they let M out aaaaaah. I didn't like the skiing jacket - and he's so bad he's actually good goldie was a fun villian.

The writing, i do think they made it up as they went along. But it gave PB's finest line; when he shot Electra dead (sorry Luds should have put a spoiler alert for you there).

And I didn't mind the sub ending either.

DarthDimi · October 2011

First, we get GE: a film that I hold in the highest esteem possible. In 1995, I actually believed we'd stepped into another golden age for Bond. Then came TND. Then came TWINE. And I never felt the same chills and thrills again. What started as a promising new era, swiftly turned dark and smelly. Hey, I can watch TWINE with some appreciation - it's a Bond film and I happen to like that brand. However, and I've gone over this exercise over and over again, when I list all the aspects of a Bond film and compare GE versus TWINE, GE seems infinitely better. So I suppose a lot of my TWINE related frustrations are a direct result of my unfulfilled desire to get a GE number 2 in Brosnan's career.

forgotmyusername · October 2011

First, we get GE: a film that I hold in the highest esteem possible. In 1995, I actually believed we'd stepped into another golden age for Bond. Then came TND. Then came TWINE. And I never felt the same chills and thrills again. What started as a promising new era, swiftly turned dark and smelly. Hey, I can watch TWINE with some appreciation - it's a Bond film and I happen to like that brand. However, and I've gone over this exercise over and over again, when I list all the aspects of a Bond film and compare GE versus TWINE, GE seems infinitely better. So I suppose a lot of my TWINE related frustrations are a direct result of my unfulfilled desire to get a GE number 2 in Brosnan's career.

The fact GE was written was for TD (I think) may have something to do with it. Maybe we all miss TD and wanted him back. On a tangent just watching SKYFALL sorry Stormbreaker and that is good fun. A ready made Q, a new James Bond in the making, this film has just reversed my opinion of TWINE. There's more edge, fun, great characters and a plot in Stormbreaker than TWINE or TND boo hoo.

Shoreline · October 2011

Don`t you just love it when people ruin an APPRECIATION THREAD?

"We have nothing good to say...so we`re gonna say it anyway..."

Yes, okay then....

=D>

forgotmyusername · October 2011

Don`t you just love it when people ruin an APPRECIATION THREAD?

"We have nothing good to say...so we`re gonna say it anyway..."

Yes, okay then....

=D>

That's the beauty. A stream of consciousness from the members here. it's what makes it interesting. I've gone from appreciation, to the other way. So this thread has helped me with my Bond love.

I love sarcasm but you could add a bit of style with it for eg:

I acknowledge your (clever) (devastating) (hilarious) insult.

I applaud your attempt to improve upon my original idea (from an opposing ideological view) (with a slightly different twist).

I recognize the unfathomable injustice of my insignificant voice drowning out the singular wisdom of yours.

my fav:

I sense my writing displeases you. I suggest not reading it.

So long TWINE Appreciation thread - I'm off to find the anti thread.

Luds · October 2011

Don`t you just love it when people ruin an APPRECIATION THREAD?

"We have nothing good to say...so we`re gonna say it anyway..."

Yes, okay then....

=D>

Do you mean, well that some people start complaining when there's not *enough* positives in other folks' posts? Yes, I hate SPAM too ;)

@forgotmyusername Nope, I've pretty much listed everything I don't dislike about TWINE, as per topic, appreciation... Maybe I forgot Elektra's fur hat. That was pretty funny. I really don't mind Carlyle at all, he's wasted in the flick, but he's a solid actor still and wipes the floor with everyone else on screen each time he's there. I really think he should have been the main villain, but at least I'll give P&W that they tried something with Elektra & Jones, the old switcheroo. The only issue is that the actresses and writing couldn't carry it through. Elektra did have the funny "Soon she'll be everywhere" line, which does make me chuckle.

Seve · October 2011

Don`t you just love it when people ruin an APPRECIATION THREAD?

"We have nothing good to say...so we`re gonna say it anyway..."

Yes, okay then....

=D>

well said

although I have to say I'm pleased to see Luds and co have shown more restraint than in the past, attempting to be ironic and amusing, rather than just spouting the same old boorish vitriol

well done

=D>

Baltimore_007 · October 2011

Lo and behold this was the last 007 film I watched, a few hours ago in fact, I would of mentioned it in 'LBFYW' at a later date but since it's at the top of the page, perfect timing and all.

I know I berated the Richards character before but this time I seemed to get on with her a lot better, a difference of opinion almost, as soon as we see her when Bond arrives at the desert facility I was 'searching frantically for the Off button' but stayed with it until the end and maybe I was a bit hard on her, although I can't stand the end bit with Brosnan and her sitting on a window drinking champagne with fireworks going off, it's just too syrupy or forced, 'Ive always wanted to have Christmas in Turkey' etc, and then there's the end bit with the heat detector and M16 staff looking on, and a final cringeworthy Brosnan line or two

The pre titles bit didn't seem too long this time around, and I thought Llewelyn could of got more time on screen than just a few seconds, in what turned out to be his final appearance. Sophie Marceau did a really good job here. =D>

dchantry · December 2011

Sorry, doesn't do it for me. Apart from an excellent PTS I find it dull and boring and its one I never tend to watch.

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