SPECTRE: And what would you like to maintain for Bond #25?

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Comments

  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    ...where they were utterly ruined.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,972
    Well there's not much they can do to re-introduce him; he's been arrested, so he'll either escape/be released or he won't, and I can only assume it'll be the former (provided they continue on with the Spectre/Blofeld angle in 'Bond 25,' and don't go with something more standalone.)
  • Okay, let's stay on topic. What good stuff from SP do you want to reappear in Bond #25?

    Another thing I'd like to return are the well-written characters and A-class actors. I do think that Daniel Craig in SP was perfect. That more streamlined portrayal of Bond, without too many emotions, strongly appealed to me.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197

    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Well there's not much they can do to re-introduce him; he's been arrested, so he'll either escape/be released or he won't, and I can only assume it'll be the former (provided they continue on with the Spectre/Blofeld angle in 'Bond 25,' and don't go with something more standalone.)

    Well they could make a plot similar to the Silence of the lambs. Blofeld is arrested but has information on another villain that are highly important for mi6. He uses his bargaining position to escape.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited September 2016 Posts: 40,972
    GBF wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Well there's not much they can do to re-introduce him; he's been arrested, so he'll either escape/be released or he won't, and I can only assume it'll be the former (provided they continue on with the Spectre/Blofeld angle in 'Bond 25,' and don't go with something more standalone.)

    Well they could make a plot similar to the Silence of the lambs. Blofeld is arrested but has information on another villain that are highly important for mi6. He uses his bargaining position to escape.

    Or they could write something that's as exciting and original as possible. They shouldn't set out to consciously make a plot "similar" to some other highly praised film.
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Well there's not much they can do to re-introduce him; he's been arrested, so he'll either escape/be released or he won't, and I can only assume it'll be the former (provided they continue on with the Spectre/Blofeld angle in 'Bond 25,' and don't go with something more standalone.)

    Well they could make a plot similar to the Silence of the lambs. Blofeld is arrested but has information on another villain that are highly important for mi6. He uses his bargaining position to escape.

    Or they could write something that's as exciting and original as possible. They shouldn't set out to consciously make a plot "similar" to some other highly praised film.

    Come up with an idea yourself then instead of immediately writing off ideas as being blast or unoriginal. Remember, we love Bond films. The Bond franchise by definition isn't original anymore. Yet all you do is sounding grumpy in here. You haven't even mentioned what you would like to see return in Bond #25. I guess there's a topic in here titled "SPECTRE: what you would have done differently".
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited September 2016 Posts: 40,972
    ...but copying the plot from another film is literally the definition of "unoriginal." I'm not blasting anyone here, but I'm not going to applaud bad ideas or support copying huge chunks from the older installments/other films, either.

    In all honesty, there really isn't much that I want to return from SP, hence me not posting a grand list of things. Off the top of my head: the gunbarrel returning would be great, perhaps the sense of fun that was missing in SF but injected into SP. Mentioning other 00's every now and then would be nice to see, as well.

    No need to get bitter. Perhaps if you read what I wrote, you'd see that I did offer suggestions: he breaks out of prison, he is somehow released, or he stays in prison. That's about all they can do. Should've had him escape in SP, as it would've made writing the next installment a lot easier. Now if they want to bring him back, their options for kicking that off are pretty limited.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 11,119
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    ...but copying the plot from another film is literally the definition of "unoriginal." I'm not blasting anyone here, but I'm not going to applaud bad ideas or support copying huge chunks from the older installments/other films, either.

    In all honesty, there really isn't much that I want to return from SP, hence me not posting a grand list of things. Off the top of my head: the gunbarrel returning would be great, perhaps the sense of fun that was missing in SF but injected into SP. Mentioning other 00's every now and then would be nice to see, as well.

    No need to get bitter. Perhaps if you read what I wrote, you'd see that I did offer suggestions: he breaks out of prison, he is somehow released, or he stays in prison. That's about all they can do. Should've had him escape in SP, as it would've made writing the next installment a lot easier. Now if they want to bring him back, their options for kicking that off are pretty limited.

    Well, the humour I find indeed a very important aspect I like to return. Bond landing falling on this sofa in the PTS, Bond pushing this Fiat 500 to go faster, the old man in the Fiat, Bond referencing Topólino, waving at the henchman at Sciarra's funeral, Hinx uttering the Shit-word......

    It would also be nice if there's a more.comical.relationship between Bond and another Bond-girl. Yeah, that Craig-humour from SP definitely needs to return ;-).

    Regarding a prison break-out....I think someone else in here uttered that idea as well, and I have my doubts about that. Moreover, to let Blofeld become the 'puppet master's again, he has to break free anyway. I just think for the sake of secrecy and to let Blofeld become underground again, I don't think it's entirely pñausible to write a big on-screen break-out or heist. The very character Blofeld would do it more ingeniously. Perhaps to use a double to wipe out any trace of a break-out.

    Anyway, this discussion gives me more and better ideas on how to correct some flaws ;-).

    Am I bitter? No. Ut you aren't entirely responsive as of late to my remarks and questions when we talk in pvt.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,972
    The humor was certainly much better in SP than SF, that's for sure. Had a few moments I laughed out loud from.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,116
    Gunbarrel in proper place but performed better (gun not visible).

    Fiennes and other MI6 team

    Same classic office.

    I'm 50/50 on Craig ...if his heart into it.

    Spectre maybe ...hiatus is a good thing sometimes.

    I'm sorry can't come up with much only because I'm not sure where to go next.

    And I agree with @GG understandably or not the negativity gets weighty after awhile. Not saying that we shouldn't voice our descent... we should but positive is always a positive thing


    :D

    (and yes I know I'm guilty)
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 676
    Really, there's not much I'd like to return. Definitely Craig, Fiennes, Whishaw and Harris (with the caveat that M gets two scenes at most and MP and Q one scene only). Kinnear can go.

    I do not want any of the other cast to return - Waltz, Seydoux, Bautista - what a bore that would be. I already saw Spectre, thanks. Part of the fun of a Bond film is that each film has its own unique villains and Bond girls. If Bond 25 is Spectre 2, I won't be seeing it.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited September 2016 Posts: 9,020
    I must say the overly negative criticism towards Spectre on this forum is quite a bit ridiculous. Reading all the negativity one could think Spectre is as unpopular as DAD is nowadays. Which could not be farther from the truth.

    Therefore I must say "good job" creating this thread @Gustav_Graves
    even if I disagree strongly with your opening comment "Spectre is inherent to disappointment and failed expectations".
    It isn't.
    Most of the people who can't stand Spectre are avid Skyfall fans who have difficulty accepting the reality that SF was a one-off. Spectre returned the franchise to fun, OTT action, humour and a truly self-confident fantastic performance by a Bond actor.
    And thank BB/MGW for that.

    And that's also the main thing I want to maintain for Bond 25 and beyond...

    Fun, OTT action, humour, witty dialogue, self-confident acting.
    Furthermore the truly iconic Bond traits that were treated so shabbily in the past.
    A proper Gun-Barrel-Sequence, a spectacular PTS with action never seen before.
    and much missed Self-irony!!

    Spectre has provided a lot of Bond fans with a movie that is channeling GoldenEye or The Spy Who Loved Me.
    And for those who loved the Brosnan-era and the later Moore-era SPECTRE is a gift that will keep on giving for as long as the franchise exists.

    A personal comment: Lucky for me I am located in Switzerland. I told this before but I will tell it again.
    Spectre broke ticket sales records. It sold more than one million tickets in Switzerland. The second highest ticket sales were 699 thousand and that was Star Wars The Force Awakens.
    I am very happy to live in the most Bond-crazy country in the world. Experiencing Spectre several times at the cinema with an audience always in awe and excited about the great entertainment that Spectre gave us, was truly amazing and I don't regret any of the 13 visits to the cinema I made to watch it.

    Switzerland isn't at all the only Bond-crazy country in Europe. The same goes for Germany and Austria. While Spectre didn't beat Star Wars in both countries it got quite near the same ticket sales.
    Not sure about the UK, but I'm pretty sure Spectre was greeted with highest regard from the British. Even the critics were very kind to Spectre in the UK and rightfully so, although "do I look like I give a damn" about them.

    If Bond 25 is only half as fun and entertaining as Spectre is, it will be a success. Spectre has set the bar very high.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    No, @Gustav_Graves, I was specifically talking about that you expect the next director to continue Mendes' directing style. That is factually not how the franchise work. Craig's successor won't base his take on the character on Craig, Brosnan or Connery, the next writers won't base their style on Purvis & Wade, the next composer won't base his music on Arnold, Newman, Serra, Conti or however, the next M won't base his acting on Fiennes, Brown or Lee, the next Q won't base his acting on Wishaw or Cleese or Desmond. Every new cast and crew must give their own take.

    Please realize that your suggestion is ludicrous. If you want EON to approach all directors by asking 'please direct the film in Mendes' style', well congratulations, Bond 25 will never be made because all directors will turn down the offer to do the film. Do you honestly believe they will approach Fincher, Villeneuve, Nolan or Campbell only to ask them to replicate what Mendes is doing? That is factually ridiculous and wrong, period. If EON want Nolan, Spielberg or even Scorsese, they will want these guys' own approach, not Mendes'. Each Bond director, actor, writer, composer are expected to have their own take on their respective job.

    Mendes' 'style' ends with his involvement. No possible arguments can be made to suggest otherwise. What he added to the franchise, like Fiennes' M, Whishaw's Q, Harris' MP or Waltz' Blofeld can indeed be carried on to Bond 25. It is his directing style that simply can not return without himself also coming back.

    This.

    There is nothing exclusive to SP that should return that hasnt been in other Bond films and is a staple of the series.

    Yes I'm happy with Craig, Fiennes, Whishaw and Harris returning but these are just casting decisions not fundamentals that decide whether or not the series can continue.

    Yes SP has some good elements but the only things it does that are original are things we dont want repeating.

    And the notion that Mendes' style should be replicated in any way is a bizarre as it is ridiculous.

    I can happily admit there are some very good aspects about SP (opening half up to the plane crash is very solid, apart from some weakish action scenes, the train scenes are also extremely good. Its only the final act that implodes - and even then I love the Colonel Sun torture scene apart from the stepbrother bullshit) but its not a gamechanger that we need to be taking elements from going into the next film. If youre going to do that go back to FRWL, OHMSS or CR.

    Or just do the sensible thing and go back to some bloke called Ian Fleming.
    Well, I disagree. I actually think it's entirely contrived to spend a lot of time in the film to let Blofeld break out of prison. It lacks any.mystery. I think it's far better and, if performed well, to replace Blofeld by a double. It's not contrived, and way simpler. You could even try to make such a doppelganger ordeal more realistic by turning it into a necessary surgery to heal Blofeld's wounds, scars and infectious eye. Here you have it. No big truck please where a bunch of gangsters try to free Blofeld. I prefer the elegant doppelganger approach.

    How does this 'elegant' twist even work? Blofeld creates a double by having surgery and then leaves that poor f**ker to serve his life sentence in prison so the authorities are non the wiser and he can go about his business? There still needs to be a contrived scene where he switches with the patsy and escapes from prison of course.

    Or do SPECTRE get some bloke to change his face to Blofeld's on the outside and he pretends to be Ernst taking orders from him by phone from his cell? Also awful. Once Blofeld is out of the way someone else will rise up and take over the organisation.

    Given this 'elegant doppelganger' (@Gustav's words not mine) option is a non starter and a prison escape is also too obvious I guess the only option is that Blofeld never goes to prison at all. The best way out I can see is that Blofeld either has valuable information and the government release him in exchange or he gets them to believe ('in very convincing terms') he has always had a dirty bomb or some such hidden in a city as insurance against getting caught and the countdown has started so they release him. Or someone in government (Guy Haines?) dubiously signs off on releasing him?

    barryt007 wrote: »
    Every Bond fan out there,as soon as they see a doppleganger plotline,will say that EON are just being lazy and recycling the same thing from DAF,it would be a disaster .

    The Bond films have to remain grounded as they have done..SP is as fantastical as it should get - sticking Dopplegangers in , and Bond not knowing who Blofeld is,is just asking for serious criticism from fans,moviegoers and critics.

    Luckily that wont happen,EON,BB,Michael etc all have better common sense than that.

    I imagine if someone had said 'Blofeld will turn out to be Bond's stepbrother' pre SP someone would have posted 'Luckily that wont happen,EON,BB,Michael etc all have better common sense than that.' Who knew?

    Anything is possible now.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 2016 Posts: 6,303
    No disrespect but that sounds like it'd be really annoying and not "pivotal" at all. We can argue whether they were right to do the whole Blofeld/Spectre thing in one film, but the fact is it's done now. Bond knows Blofeld, they've met and faced off. If they wanted to do a FRWL/TB esque film with Craig they should have done it before, they've lost their chance now. They've done the grand reveal so now Bond has to fight Blofeld. To bring Craig back, carry on with Blofeld and delay their final confrontation would probably be the worst possible move imo. Plus what happens if Craig doesn't want to do a 6th? The next actor has to finish off that story.

    Agreed. If Craig comes back, Blofeld needs to be the main villain so that they can have their final confrontation. They will likely add the stakes of Blofeld killing Madeleine to make it very personal early, a la The Bourne Supremacy (and frankly, this is a more interesting way to tie Bond and Blofeld together than the foster brother angle, IMHO). It would allow them to sweep all the contrived connections of SP aside for a more immediate threat on her.
    I'm not picturing some heroic sacrifice or anything, something smaller, maybe a stray bullet during the final battle that he doesn't even notice until it's over.

    This feels too much like M in SF to me, and I didn't like the way it was handled there.
    If Craig decides not to return, then Blofeld and Spectre shouldn't feature and it should be a soft reboot (I'd get a new Q and Moneypenny to reiterate this) imo. Straightforward mission to show the tone and direction they're now going for. Spectre could eventually come back but I'd leave it for at least a few films, and when they do return, I wouldn't want it to be Bond and Blofeld's first meeting again. Make it clear they've met before and that Bond knows about Spectre, but keep the details vague.

    I have mixed feelings about this. I don't think the series should reboot every time it gets backed into a corner because regular reboots could degrade the franchise (see: Spiderman).

    Part of me likes the idea of a new Q and Moneypenny, or neither of them a la CR. But Whishaw is so great in the role so I could see them making an exception just like Dench in CR. Think of how much better he has handled the role than John Cleese (who, to be fair, had a Lazenby-esque dilemma himself in following Desmond). I am lukewarm about Harris, although she is supposedly amazing in her new film this fall.
  • Any people who.....like me idea....just a little bit 8-| ?
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 1,817
    SP had two very good fight scenes. Carry over that brutality to the melee fights please.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 12,837
    @echo I haven't seen Spiderman but from what I've read, the issue was repeating the origin story rather than re-rebooting right? I mean TLD and GE are essentially reboots anyway. That's the sort of thing I'm advocating for the next actor.

    Also I messed up, what I meant to say was a new M and Moneypenny (Fiennes and Harris have underwhelmed me, and I think if they keep too many actors on it'll confuse audiences as the Craig era is likely its own self contained thing). I want Q to stay on ala Dench in CR. Wishaw is brilliant and he could play the part for decades.
  • Posts: 676
    bondjames wrote: »
    Oh, and Daniel Kleinman.
    Good call. He just keeps getting better. His contributions to Skyfall and Spectre were stunning.
  • Milovy wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Oh, and Daniel Kleinman.
    Good call. He just keeps getting better. His contributions to Skyfall and Spectre were stunning.

    For you @Milovy ;-). Desktop backgrounds I made. I hope you like the compositions:

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  • Argh I forgot about Kleinman. He definitely needs to return. Although to be honest I wasn't as keen on the SF and SP titles as some. Don't get me wrong they were great, still a lot better than most of Binder's efforts and better than TND and TWINE, but SF didn't feel very consistent to me. I like it when there's a theme to the titles, SF just seemed to lurch from one thing to another. And with SP, apart from the imagery with the octopus and the shots of previous films, I've forgotten most of it, it didn't stick in my mind like the best ones do.

    @Gustav It's interesting how you included QoS as I'm sure you know Kleinman didn't do that film. For me that's one of the worst title sequences.

    I think the best titles are Casino Royale, Goldeneye and Die Another Day (I'm not sure why they don't do that more often, live action titles that tell a story, could be a good way to establish the next actor actually, a title sequence that shows snippets of him in action on past missions).
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    IKiaAKX.jpg

    Thanks mate. You've no idea how long I've been searching for a Rory Kinnear/MK Dons designed title sequence desktop!
  • Hope you like it @TheWizardOfIce

    The comparison of the last four Bond main title designs actually made me appreciate MK12 a bit more.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,273
    Great work there, @Gustav_Graves!
  • Posts: 4,325
    - Gunbarrel at the start
    - Another fantastic TS by Daniel Kleinman
    - Great cinematography
    - The Bond-eqsue feel
    - Classic M office
    - Bond using a Walther PPK
    - Ralph Fiennes
    - Ben Whishaw
    - Daniel Craig
  • Dragonpol wrote: »
    Great work there, @Gustav_Graves!
    If you look closely, you will.find that every desktop background has a distinct theme ;-). Can you find them?
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Great work there, @Gustav_Graves!
    If you look closely, you will.find that every desktop background has a distinct theme ;-). Can you find them?

    Title of film
    "As Ian Fleming's..."
    Feature a woman
    Wavy lines?
    Have a gun in it?


  • Quite correct really ;-).


    You know, I have been thinking, but I really like the 'touch of bizareness' of "SPECTRE".

    - Hinx killing people with his steel tipped finger nails
    - A SPECTRE-meeting in a Bilderberg-esque mysterious atmosphere
    - Mr White going mental in a ghost house
    - Blofeld getting psychotic with his dentist drills
    - A giant Kartenhoff meteroid as a means of 'sexual foreplay' ;-)
    - Bond and Madeleine being picked up in the desert by a Rolls
    - A cheesy butler welcoming the couple at Blofeld's bungalow
    - A funeral sequence with a bit of 'Mickey Mouse' inuendo
    - A bizarre 'funhouse' sequence in the MI6-building, reminiscent of Scaramanga
    - Bond's Aston Martin DB10 equiped with Frank Sinatra
    - Bond pushing out the airbag from the babyblue Fiat 500
    - A slap in Bond's face by Lucia, and Bond smashing down champaign glasses
    - Hinx ending his screentime with a gentle "Shitt"
    - Hearing Madeleine suffocating by Hinx' hands
    - Blofeld picking up his pussycat from Bond's lap

    I loved it :-). And I hope some of it returns in Bond #25
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    One of my favorite touches of SP is in the PTS as his starting attire perfectly characterizes Bond as a messenger of death who has come to put in some work.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    You know, I have been thinking, but I really like the 'touch of bizareness' of "SPECTRE".

    Despite not liking the product as a whole I also do love those 'bizarre' touches

  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,519


    1302_12_12---Casino-Garden--Interlaken--Berner-Oberland--Switzerland_web.jpg?&k=Casino+Garden%2C+Interlaken%2C+Berner+Oberland%2C+Switzerland

    Everthing done till this point was only a warming up and now 007 (fan) your time is up. The time that Lechiefe mean in CR (That was hint afterall that it going to take a whyle..). Will we finaly know the truth..





    Time to let return Camile and Felix. In 2018 it is ten years a go. There hinting them in Spectre.

    I think Bond have more knowlegde like as in CR and QOS as hinted in Spectre: Title of Bond 25 will be Hildebrand Rarity or Property Of A Lady or Risico and title that left the title of Bond 26. I see as possible option Risico or Property Of A Lady as possible work title of both movies.

    ''007' in New York'' ''Bird with a wings down'' '' Operation Ruthless'' ''Never Send Flowers'' are stil other favorites.

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    Return to holiday in Marocco house. In another thread i already giving a sugestion, but moost inportent be that in first place for going back for Vesper video and not cheap option like Madeline giving this video to Q offscreen in Spectre and then Bond get it.

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    Monica Bullici return.

    If there deside to use Property Of A Lady, mabey there should consider to make it ladies movie with her return, the return Camile, asking woman as directer, woman for title song and no Tanner. I have seen people who like to see Seydoux return, i don't.

    Hoyte Van Hoytema return for Hildebrand Rarity. I like the car chase even the very p&w remember of Die Another Day. That skyfall whas very good like scene with bullici at her house. Hildebrand Rarity as thriller. Directer sugestion: John Madden.

    My choose wil be Hildebrand should be not living any more and can possible option he been seen or ony heard about in Vesper video too besides Vesper. We get flashbacks of him, Vesper and Vesper and Bond. There should use video and flashbacks to tell more about Vesper. Even Mr White can return in some flashbacks. For example i like to see more of delete beach scene of casino royale, with a creative camera angle Mr White watch them lile he did later too.

    ''Death are a Life'' / Writing On the Wall / Iam the author of your life. The ''You Know My Name'', ''Another Way To Die'' and ''The coldest blood runs through my veins'' of Spectre. What Eon coming up next with. ''knowledge is power (Dutch: Kennis is macht)'' and ''hell is lose (Dutch: Hell breeks los)'' the magic words..

    Like the blind barrel. Blind for something you don't see or don't want see.
    But i feel it was rushed to set at the start.

    Not speaking English i like to see return. In Skyfall we see Turkish flag whyle there don't say it is Turkey. In Spectre there be moment of speaking Mexican. In Skyfall it be ''Neigbours'' (England and Scotland / Turkey and Greece) ''We looking to you'' (Turkey and China) and in Spectre: "Believe'' (Italy-Rome / Maroc / Mexico) what connect locations. Very curious what it wil be next time. ''relations'' ''Knowlegde'' ''sharing'' mabey.

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    One down not the end. Quantum stil exist and are out on revenge and bigger then last time..

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    Remember, we are always one step a head of you 007..








    You get enough sleep, time to wake up.. :-B

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