What has happened to the Bond theme in the Craig era ?

2

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  • edited September 2016 Posts: 16,226
    I'd love to hear the DR NO recording used again. It is The James Bond Theme.
    It's pretty bad ass during the OHMSS Piz Gloria attack.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    I want to know what "EMI Unart Catalogue Inc" has/had to do with the licensing of the Bond theme. At the beginning of Goldeneye N64 it says "James Bond theme written by Monty Norman, licensed by EMI Unart Catalogue Inc."
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I want to know what "EMI Unart Catalogue Inc" has/had to do with the licensing of the Bond theme. At the beginning of Goldeneye N64 it says "James Bond theme written by Monty Norman, licensed by EMI Unart Catalogue Inc."
    I believe EMI Unart is the publishing company which is responsible for ensuring that Norman receives payment. The copyright is assigned to the publisher, who then has an obligation to pay the composer or inventor of the song. They can also promote the song and license it for payment.

    If I'm not mistaken, EMI Unart is owned by Sony/ATV, which used to be a joint venture between Sony and Michael Jackson's estate. The Jackson estate sold their half of the venture to Sony earlier this year for $750m.

    If Sony ultimately owns the rights to the publishing contract, then there really shouldn't be any issue with using Norman's theme, as long as they compensate him.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I dont think we heard it in the background during QOS until Bond carries an unconcious Camille after the boat chase and dumps her on the harbour employee...

    Hints are heard when Bond opens the car boot in the PTS
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    bondjames wrote: »
    I want to know what "EMI Unart Catalogue Inc" has/had to do with the licensing of the Bond theme. At the beginning of Goldeneye N64 it says "James Bond theme written by Monty Norman, licensed by EMI Unart Catalogue Inc."
    I believe EMI Unart is the publishing company which is responsible for ensuring that Norman receives payment. The copyright is assigned to the publisher, who then has an obligation to pay the composer or inventor of the song. They can also promote the song and license it for payment.

    If I'm not mistaken, EMI Unart is owned by Sony/ATV, which used to be a joint venture between Sony and Michael Jackson's estate. The Jackson estate sold their half of the venture to Sony earlier this year for $750m.

    If Sony ultimately owns the rights to the publishing contract, then there really shouldn't be any issue with using Norman's theme, as long as they compensate him.

    Very interesting. You've been more informative than my Google searches were.
    Murdock wrote: »
    I've noticed that even some of the most recent Bond games haven't even used it aside from a one off use so it could be Monty is asking for too much to use it. who knows. It's very interesting to me and I'd like to know.

    @Murdock I wonder if Sony was being litigious with the rights to the Bond theme with games that were not exclusive to their console. I don't know why they wouldn't have done it earlier on, and then suddenly start though.
  • Posts: 1,296
    Thomas Newman just didn't want to use it I think, anyway in the next film I think we should reveal the origins of the James Bond theme, maybe Ernst wrote it to mess with Bond's mind. :)
  • Posts: 4,325
    Thomas Newman's use of the Bond theme is genius.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,089
    Murdock wrote: »
    Exactly. The Bond theme should be used as much as Bond is on screen.

    That would get boring real fast. The Bond theme should certainly be used but only sparingly and at key moments.



  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Murdock wrote: »
    The Bond theme can never be overused, That's just silly but since CR it's been so underused that it makes me mad. When I see a Bond movie, I expect to hear the Bond theme during key moments in the film, not just the end credits. I want it back how it was in the 90's. Fan complaints be damned. It's like Superman or Star Wars without their themes.

    In MAN OF STEEL they did NOT use John Williams' SUPERMAN Theme.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited September 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    The Bond theme can never be overused, That's just silly but since CR it's been so underused that it makes me mad. When I see a Bond movie, I expect to hear the Bond theme during key moments in the film, not just the end credits. I want it back how it was in the 90's. Fan complaints be damned. It's like Superman or Star Wars without their themes.

    In MAN OF STEEL they did NOT use John Williams' SUPERMAN Theme.

    And it was total gash, kind of proving @Murdock's point.

    Superman theme wouldn't have saved MOS from being shite but it would have improved it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    That would get boring real fast. The Bond theme should certainly be used but only sparingly and at key moments.
    I disagree.

    In MAN OF STEEL they did NOT use John Williams' SUPERMAN Theme.

    Nope, It had a bland unmemorable score that I don't even remember. Thematic music in film is important. It gives the movie it's own feel. When the music has no memorable themes, it's just sonic wallpaper and a chore to listen to. Give me Williams over Zimmer any day.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Williams couldn't have save MoS imho. I think Zimmer's moody score suited that film (which was tonally a bit on the dreary side in comparison to the more uplifting original). The same goes for his work on all the Nolan films. His scores reflect the mood of the films very well.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited September 2016 Posts: 16,362
    That style of music honestly does nothing for me. It could suit the film sure but it doesn't give it an ooompf factor. It's like it's supposed to uplift you but it just doesn't. I grew up with thematic music so I am spoiled in that regard when it comes to film music. Sadly it just doesn't hold a torch to what came before. Which is why my feelings on film music are so strong.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,089
    Murdock wrote: »
    That would get boring real fast. The Bond theme should certainly be used but only sparingly and at key moments.
    I disagree.

    So you'd have a Bond soundtrack that would mainly consist of the 'James Bond Theme' film after film ?!!!

    Sounds boring to me.

    What's cool is when the Bond theme suddenly comes in a creates an iconic moment. Great use of it was made when Moore is riding the camera to plant the bomb in TSWLM.

    But that film also had a great score as well. Perhaps you'd have preferred the Bond theme to be played ALL the way through the film?



    >-)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I'm a bit different in this respect. I do want the score to suit the film. That's my #1 requirement. This is why I'm not so critical of Newman's efforts (although I think he was much more inventive with SF in comparison to SP).

    A perfect example of a score that seemed to compete and overshadow what was on screen imho is Pemberton's work on both The Man From Uncle and The Game. In both cases, he composed very nice melodies, but I felt it overshadowed the film rather than working within it.

    Jackman's work on Kingsman on the other hand was just about perfect. The same goes for Kraemer on MI-RN.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Murdock wrote: »
    That would get boring real fast. The Bond theme should certainly be used but only sparingly and at key moments.
    I disagree.

    So you'd have a Bond soundtrack that would mainly consist of the 'James Bond Theme' film after film ?!!!

    Sounds boring to me.

    What's cool is when the Bond theme suddenly comes in a creates an iconic moment. Great use of it was made when Moore is riding the camera to plant the bomb in TSWLM.

    But that film also had a great score as well. Perhaps you'd have preferred the Bond theme to be played ALL the way through the film?



    >-)

    Not film after film but I'd like a film preferably Bond25 to bring in a nice Bond theme heavy score to make up for lack of Bond theme used in the last three movies. Ala TND's score which is a great score. I don't mean the Bond theme would be used in every scene but in every "Bond Moment" scene. It's been so underused that I'd like it to come back in full force and blow us away again.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Kingsman had a great soundtrack ,as did Spy....
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    While I didn't like the film Kingsman, it had a better "Bond" score than SP and SF did. Great stuff.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,256
    barryt007 wrote: »
    CR made sense not having the Bond theme,he hadn't 'earned the right to it' so to speak.
    BUT it had a great soundtrack,score to keep us going and ended it with the Bond music as he walked up the steps after shooting Mr White and then of course the end credits.

    This got a standing ovation from the cinema audience.

    But since then ,they still carried this on,instead of bringing it back ,as Bond had now become Bond,and the soundtracks and scores have been gradually getting worse.

    Annoying.

    I agree 100% The beauty of the CR score is that, with the noted exception, it manages to avoid using the establish Bond theme(s) while at the same time being pure Bond.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    These are good points. If a score has strong melodic compositions, then the Bond theme will be less missed. If it's weak and 'filler', then the Bond theme will be more missed (since it's such a strong composition in itself).

    As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I thought Arnold overused it during the Brosnan years. I've heard others argue that he didn't. I haven't counted the instances of its use during that time, but I suspect I 'feel' that way because his other melodies weren't up to the job (To my ears), and so the Bond theme just stood out whenever he used it.

    Barry on the other hand had so many strong melodies in any one film that the Bond theme just seemed like an extension of his work in each film, rather than a 'got you' moment like it did in Arnold's Brosnan era films.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,089
    Watching SF again the other day I was surprised how much the Bond theme is used by Newman in the film. Albeit in it's different forms.

    I think he uses it a perfect amount and doesn't overdo it and I do actually now think it's a really good soundtrack...

    Shoot me!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Out of bullets. :P
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Watching SF again the other day I was surprised how much the Bond theme is used by Newman in the film. Albeit in it's different forms.

    I think he uses it a perfect amount and doesn't overdo it and I do actually now think it's a really good soundtrack...

    Shoot me!
    Although I don't hear the Bond theme as much as you do, I agree that it is a very good soundtrack which matches the visuals perfectly.

    Newman was less impressive on SP, but then I feel that about every aspect of that film in comparison to its predecessor, and not just the soundtrack.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,089
    bondjames wrote: »
    Watching SF again the other day I was surprised how much the Bond theme is used by Newman in the film. Albeit in it's different forms.

    I think he uses it a perfect amount and doesn't overdo it and I do actually now think it's a really good soundtrack...

    Shoot me!
    Although I don't hear the Bond theme as much as you do, I agree that it is a very good soundtrack which matches the visuals perfectly.

    Newman was less impressive on SP, but then I feel that about every aspect of that film in comparison to its predecessor, and not just the soundtrack.

    Trouble is he re-used just a bit too much of his SF score for SP.

    But you're right, the score for SF matches the visuals perfectly.

  • edited October 2016 Posts: 1,817
    If you look closely, the use of the Bond theme has certainly evolved over the course of each film.

    Wikipedia claims that there are seven uses of the Bond theme in CR. I cannot really hear all these, but aside from the credits it was used in "Trip Aces" "Bond Wins It All" and to greatest effect in "Dirty Martini" to score Bond's cathartic revival.

    Wikipedia also claims that there seven uses of the Bond theme in QOS. Now this is a little more clear, although it's still subtle. Key moments were the end of the car chase (Time to Get Out), the end of the boat chase (Pursuit at Port au Prince), entering the hotel room with Fields (Field Trip) and the ending scene (I Never Left). In my opinion, used to chilling effect as Bond escapes custody of Mi6 (Oil Fields).

    SF is therefore a breakthrough in that we finally had quite a few bombastic uses of the Bond theme. We had our first sustained use during the main film as well in "Breadcrumbs" where the guitar riff lasts for a full minute. It is also a false claim that the guitar riff was only used once by Newman. He used it another time at the end of Granborough Road which is clearly heard in the film after the Komodo Dragon fight.

    Finally, SP uses the Bond theme multiple times. However, some uses are brief and often not on the soundtrack (e.g. the gunbarrel music). Bond theme is almost always clear and audible when used. One sustained arrangement in "Los Muertos Vivos Estan" and a very powerful rendition in "Detonation" to score Bond's rescue of Madeleine.

    We have yet to have a sustained use of the Bond theme over an action scene, although we came close with "Westminster Bridge" from SP.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited October 2016 Posts: 3,157
    @IncompetentHenchman

    I'm the one who wrote "seven uses of the Bond theme in CR" on Wikipedia. The theme appears in "Blunt Instrument", "Trip Aces", "Dirty Martini", "Bond Wins It All", "The Switch", "Fall of a house in Venice", "The Bitch is Dead".

    In QoS it appears in "Time to get Out", "Inside man" (although it's subtle), "Bond in Haiti", "Pursuit at Port au prince" (appears twice), "Bolivian Taxi Ride", "Field Trip", "Oil Fields", "Perla de las Dunas", "The dead don't care about vengeance" (same arrangement used in "Inside Man") and "I Never Left". There is one brief reference to Bond theme as Bond escapes from CIA men after his conversation with Felix.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    To be honest the Bond theme is the least problem of the Craig-era.

    What about the Gun-Barrel, that was an inexcusable crime.
    Bringing Dench M back too, that instantly reduced the reboot to absurdity.
    Q and Moneypenny nowhere to be seen in two movies. A grave mistake.

    Let's just hope the next tenure will not toy with those beloved things. Just glad Cubby had not to experience the crimes his daughter committed.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    The gunbarrel was problematic yes but at least it's been corrected.

    Judi's part of the Bond family, It made sense, plus EON's always done casting choices like that. No brainer.

    Q and Moneypenny weren't in every Bond novel either, it's not that bad.

    What Barbara did wasn't crimes. She was taking risks and trying new things. That's not always a bad thing. She's trying to keep the series fresh and relevant. Did she make all the right choices? No but to call them crimes is a major overreaction. And aside from SF I thought you liked all of Daniel's films.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited October 2016 Posts: 9,020
    Murdock wrote: »
    The gunbarrel was problematic yes but at least it's been corrected.

    Judi's part of the Bond family, It made sense, plus EON's always done casting choices like that. No brainer.

    Q and Moneypenny weren't in every Bond novel either, it's not that bad.

    What Barbara did wasn't crimes. She was taking risks and trying new things. That's not always a bad thing. She's trying to keep the series fresh and relevant. Did she make all the right choices? No but to call them crimes is a major overreaction. And aside from SF I thought you liked all of Daniel's films.

    Of course I like them, all 3 are in my top 10. But certainly not because of the missing or mutilated GB, missing MP and Q.

    The GB is a crime.
    Dench I liked but you can't call it a reboot and then bring the same actress into it. It's just not logical and confusing.

    It's almost unthinkable how far to the top QOS could make it in my ranking had it included a proper GB, different editing style and one or two scenes with Q and Moneypenny.

    It's like some delicious grand Birthday cake that you get to eat but someone has already taken of the icing on the cake.
    It's still a tasty cake but something that would make it a perfect experience is missing.

    Taking away the GB and taking away things like "shaken not stirred" were plain stupid and served no purpose whatsoever and for certain were not bringing anything new to the films.
  • Posts: 16,226
    Putting the GB at the end was like waiting until November to carve your Halloween pumpkin. Unforgivable, IMO.
    With Dench they pretty much felt she was irreplaceable and overlooked that aspec of the new timeline.
    @ BondJasonBond006, QoS would most certainly be raised a few notches in my ranking as well had it included the GB opening, more Bondian less Bourne editing, maybe a classic Moneypenny flirtation bit, and dare I say "Bond. James Bond". IMO, Connery should have been the only Bond who wasn't mandated to speak the iconic introduction in each film. No one else gets a pass. Practice makes perfect, and I felt Craig's delivery of the line in SP sucked.
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