What has happened to the Bond theme in the Craig era ?

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited October 2016 Posts: 16,362
    Murdock wrote: »
    The gunbarrel was problematic yes but at least it's been corrected.

    Judi's part of the Bond family, It made sense, plus EON's always done casting choices like that. No brainer.

    Q and Moneypenny weren't in every Bond novel either, it's not that bad.

    What Barbara did wasn't crimes. She was taking risks and trying new things. That's not always a bad thing. She's trying to keep the series fresh and relevant. Did she make all the right choices? No but to call them crimes is a major overreaction. And aside from SF I thought you liked all of Daniel's films.

    Of course I like them, all 3 are in my top 10. But certainly not because of the missing or mutilated GB, missing MP and Q.

    The GB is a crime.
    Dench I liked but you can't call it a reboot and then bring the same actress into it. It's just not logical and confusing.

    It's almost unthinkable how far to the top QOS could make it in my ranking had it included a proper GB, different editing style and one or two scenes with Q and Moneypenny.

    It's like some delicious grand Birthday cake that you get to eat but someone has already taken of the icing on the cake.
    It's still a tasty cake but something that would make it a perfect experience is missing.

    Taking away the GB and taking away things like "shaken not stirred" were plain stupid and served no purpose whatsoever and for certain were not bringing anything new to the films.

    It's a crime sure but at least they were still in his movies.

    Dench is no more different than 3 different actors playing Blofeld in the span of 3 movies.

    Moneypenny and Q weren't really needed in those movies. That wouldn't have brought anything to CR or QOS. It made no difference as you said.

    Shaken not stirred wasn't used once in Roger's era. He never uttered the words once. And his films were fin.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @Murdock

    I don't mean Bond uttering the line, but it being used in the film. That's not the same.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    @Murdock

    I don't mean Bond uttering the line, but it being used in the film. That's not the same.

    Doesn't matter. Shaken not stirred wasn't used in Rogers Bond films, does that make them any less Bond films?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Murdock wrote: »
    @Murdock

    I don't mean Bond uttering the line, but it being used in the film. That's not the same.

    Doesn't matter. Shaken not stirred wasn't used in Rogers Bond films, does that make them any less Bond films?

    TSWLM, MR, OP use it.
    Furthermore the Craig movies made a point out of it not to use it, that's different. The Moore Bond still had it as his favourite drink.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    I'm really confused now... :))
    Anyway I hope Bond action scenes in the future feature the Bond theme more dominantly.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    At least CR and QOS as much as they threw away so many beloved Bond traits had DAVID ARNOLD providing two killer scores who made them feel like real Bond movies, especially QOS gets elevated a great deal by the score.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Agreed.
  • Posts: 16,226
    Somehow Arnold managed to make CR and QoS feel Bondian regardless.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Knowing and appreciating the Bond sound helps.
  • Walecs wrote: »
    @IncompetentHenchman

    I'm the one who wrote "seven uses of the Bond theme in CR" on Wikipedia. The theme appears in "Blunt Instrument", "Trip Aces", "Dirty Martini", "Bond Wins It All", "The Switch", "Fall of a house in Venice", "The Bitch is Dead".

    In QoS it appears in "Time to get Out", "Inside man" (although it's subtle), "Bond in Haiti", "Pursuit at Port au prince" (appears twice), "Bolivian Taxi Ride", "Field Trip", "Oil Fields", "Perla de las Dunas", "The dead don't care about vengeance" (same arrangement used in "Inside Man") and "I Never Left". There is one brief reference to Bond theme as Bond escapes from CIA men after his conversation with Felix.

    Firstly, kudos to you for your very good ear. You must have good musical knowledge, because I still can't pick out some of them. I must say that without this sort of knowledge the theme is nearly imperceptible.

    It shocks me that Arnold was so subtle with the theme given how loud and bombastic he was with it in the Brosnan era. Back then, whenever he used it, the audience never failed to hear it. Hell, he's more subtle with it than Newman, who gets the most flack for subduing it.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,236
    Walecs wrote: »
    @IncompetentHenchman

    I'm the one who wrote "seven uses of the Bond theme in CR" on Wikipedia. The theme appears in "Blunt Instrument", "Trip Aces", "Dirty Martini", "Bond Wins It All", "The Switch", "Fall of a house in Venice", "The Bitch is Dead".

    In QoS it appears in "Time to get Out", "Inside man" (although it's subtle), "Bond in Haiti", "Pursuit at Port au prince" (appears twice), "Bolivian Taxi Ride", "Field Trip", "Oil Fields", "Perla de las Dunas", "The dead don't care about vengeance" (same arrangement used in "Inside Man") and "I Never Left". There is one brief reference to Bond theme as Bond escapes from CIA men after his conversation with Felix.

    Firstly, kudos to you for your very good ear. You must have good musical knowledge, because I still can't pick out some of them. I must say that without this sort of knowledge the theme is nearly imperceptible.

    It shocks me that Arnold was so subtle with the theme given how loud and bombastic he was with it in the Brosnan era. Back then, whenever he used it, the audience never failed to hear it. Hell, he's more subtle with it than Newman, who gets the most flack for subduing it.

    Arnold used the theme as the very foundation of the scores for CR and QOS. He took notes and built his cues around them and infused the title track alongside it. Made it feel very Bondian without being overbearing. A more recent example of something similar would be what Joe Kraemer did with Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation. Same thing.

    Newman didn't fare as well because he doesn't quite get the sonic tradition that the series has. If you don't understand something then it doesn't matter how good a composer you are (and he is good, there's no doubt), it's just not gonna feel right.
  • Posts: 16,226
    I really didn't mind Newman's score for SF, though in a way it sounds more like an Arnold homage than Barry. I felt all 5 of Arnold's scores were solid, and the ONLY thing I would have preferred was a more traditional cue of the Bond Theme during the Gunbarrels for TND and TWINE.
  • I thought the use of the Bond theme felt right in SF, but was a bit muddled and jarring in SP.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Murdock wrote: »
    @Murdock

    I don't mean Bond uttering the line, but it being used in the film. That's not the same.

    Doesn't matter. Shaken not stirred wasn't used in Rogers Bond films, does that make them any less Bond films?

    TSWLM, MR, OP use it.
    Furthermore the Craig movies made a point out of it not to use it, that's different. The Moore Bond still had it as his favourite drink.

    Hang on, he ordered the very martini that Fleming has him order in CR the novel.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,089
    Bringing Dench M back too, that instantly reduced the reboot to absurdity.
    Q and Moneypenny nowhere to be seen in two movies. A grave mistake.

    Dench was great at playing M so it was logical to keep her. And she worked well with Craig. Hardly confusing.

    How was omitting Q and Moneypenny a grave mistake? It made a nice change to not have them clogging up the film and as it turned out CS was the best reviewed and received Bond film since the 60's so they were hardly missed.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Walecs wrote: »
    @IncompetentHenchman

    I'm the one who wrote "seven uses of the Bond theme in CR" on Wikipedia. The theme appears in "Blunt Instrument", "Trip Aces", "Dirty Martini", "Bond Wins It All", "The Switch", "Fall of a house in Venice", "The Bitch is Dead".

    In QoS it appears in "Time to get Out", "Inside man" (although it's subtle), "Bond in Haiti", "Pursuit at Port au prince" (appears twice), "Bolivian Taxi Ride", "Field Trip", "Oil Fields", "Perla de las Dunas", "The dead don't care about vengeance" (same arrangement used in "Inside Man") and "I Never Left". There is one brief reference to Bond theme as Bond escapes from CIA men after his conversation with Felix.

    Firstly, kudos to you for your very good ear. You must have good musical knowledge, because I still can't pick out some of them. I must say that without this sort of knowledge the theme is nearly imperceptible.

    I've no musical knowledge, just a very good ear as you said, and a deep love for movie soundtracks (Bond scores in particular).

    Check this video for reference, by the way:
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Walecs wrote: »
    Check this video for reference, by the way:
    Bring back David Arnold!
  • Posts: 4,325
    We need Joe Kramer for the next Bond film.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited November 2016 Posts: 8,458
    I'd really love a full bloodied rendition like the one that plays during the train sequence in OP. I miss the Bond theme appearing midway through an action sequence, and not to fade up slowly, as has been the tradition in the Craig era, but to strike suddenly and evoke a cheer from the audience. Then head straight in the upbeat Bond swell as the action unfolds...
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Same here. I've been craving that kind of Bond theme appearance for a long time. I wish it had played in SP when the Plane was revealed. That would have made the chase so much more fun. Instead we got "Snow Plane" which is the worst action music in the entire Bond franchise.

    I'm dying for the Bond theme to take hold of action scenes again.
  • Posts: 19,339
    That's partly why I find TND,for example,very watchable.
    The Bond theme is used excellently and when its not playing it is backed up by a fantastic soundtrack throughout the whole film.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,458
    The music when Bonds car locks onto the train tracks in OP is perfect. Not too old fashioned sounding, but not aggressively modern either I'm the mold of Arnold.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    barryt007 wrote: »
    CR made sense not having the Bond theme,he hadn't 'earned the right to it' so to speak.
    BUT it had a great soundtrack,score to keep us going and ended it with the Bond music as he walked up the steps after shooting Mr White and then of course the end credits.

    This got a standing ovation from the cinema audience.

    But since then ,they still carried this on,instead of bringing it back ,as Bond had now become Bond,and the soundtracks and scores have been gradually getting worse.

    Annoying.

    Agreed. Annoying, just like gunbarrels at the end. More use of the theme would have lifted the films further, the theme is sadly missed in the Craig era.
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