Anthony Horowitz's Bond novel - Forever and a Day

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  • edited June 2018 Posts: 520
    BMWTREKPSE wrote: »
    BMWTREKPSE wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    BMWTREKPSE wrote: »
    After a 2 week shipping delay my copy Of 'Forever And A Day' finally arrived!

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    Very nice collection there. Where did you pick up that copy of Colonel Sun?

    Thank you! I found it at a used book store for $5.99. Pretty good find!!

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    Fabulous artwork. Tom Adams did a fabulous job. It is extremely Daliesque and was a great development after Chopping. PussyNoMore loves it to bits and is lucky enough to have a JC first edition that is in pristine condition. He guards it with his life.
    Whatever happend to great cover art ?

    Nice Pussy! Can you post pictures? @PussyNoMore
    PussyNoMore will try when one of his sons visits.
    He is technologically challenged. Some may say a scientific pigmy.

  • edited June 2018 Posts: 520
    BMWTREKPSE wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    ... I also hope it's not a three year wait. He's very prolific, so if asked, that wouldn't be a problem.

    PussyNoMore agrees with the good Doctor. A three year wait is to be avoided at all costs.
    Horowitz continuing is very desirable but, if for whatever reason that doesn't work, The Pussy is very relaxed about Charlie Higson sharpening his pencil.
    He did a great job on 'Young Bond'.

    I've never read Higson... I can't say I like the idea of young Bond stories in the first place, but I'm glad to hear they're well written... I may have to break down and give one a shot.

    I have read 4 of the Young Bond books and I will admit, I don't LOVE them. I read them to get my Bond fix, but it doesn't quite do it for me. Some of the stories are OK but at times I feel they are a bit too 'tweeny' for my liking.

    I don't want to break your spirits, check them our if you are interested, but they aren't my favorite.

    Interesting perspectives about ‘Young Bond’.
    PussyNoMore loves Higson’s take but found Cole shallow and commercially dirivative by comparison.
    Charlie’s great skill was to respect Fleming’s narrative style and translate Bond lore in a way that worked both for a youth and an adult audience.
    Those in doubt should compare the opening of ‘Silverfin’ with the opening of ‘Casino Royale’. It is just a brilliant piece of work.
    Pussy sometimes thinks that Higson’s ‘Young Bond’ franchise suffers from the same macho prejudice that plagued ‘The Moneypenny Diaries ‘. That is to say, if it is not full on adult Bond it can’t be any good. This is a mistake. Both of the aforementioned are brilliant and are essential reading for any self respecting Bondonian.
  • Posts: 520
    timmer wrote: »
    It's worth exactly 18.99 English pound symbol......
    ..........Authentic English first editions only, thank you.

    Clearly somebody with consummate good taste.
    PussyNoMore is, himself, an authentic English first edition !

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    @Timmer enjoy the read and don't forget to channel us your thoughts. I'm very interested to read what you think of it.

    @PussyNoMore I disagree on the Young Bond idea. as i've stated in the comic book thread, the whole idea of a 'young Bond' undermines the concept of Bond. When we don't know his background, he's just an ordinary person ending up in extraordinary circumstances (his current job). So we can relate and fantasize that we might have had a chance to find ourselves in the same situation. Fleming explicitly wrote Bond like that: it's basically Fleming's fantasy of himself.
    Now if you go and make extraordinary stories of Bond when he was young, you take all that away. It has nothing to do with masculinity, it has everything to do with the 'realism' of the fantasy. As any fighter pilot can dream of becoming an ace, so should every man be able to feel a bit like Bond himself, and every woman fantasize about meeting him in the flesh. With unbelieveable stories (except to North Koreans, they're fedd stories KJU made 11 holes-in one on his first golf game) about how Bond saved the world ten times over before he was 20 you take that all away.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 5,767
    @Timmer enjoy the read and don't forget to channel us your thoughts. I'm very interested to read what you think of it.

    @PussyNoMore I disagree on the Young Bond idea. as i've stated in the comic book thread, the whole idea of a 'young Bond' undermines the concept of Bond. When we don't know his background, he's just an ordinary person ending up in extraordinary circumstances (his current job). So we can relate and fantasize that we might have had a chance to find ourselves in the same situation. Fleming explicitly wrote Bond like that: it's basically Fleming's fantasy of himself.
    Now if you go and make extraordinary stories of Bond when he was young, you take all that away. It has nothing to do with masculinity, it has everything to do with the 'realism' of the fantasy. As any fighter pilot can dream of becoming an ace, so should every man be able to feel a bit like Bond himself, and every woman fantasize about meeting him in the flesh. With unbelieveable stories (except to North Koreans, they're fedd stories KJU made 11 holes-in one on his first golf game) about how Bond saved the world ten times over before he was 20 you take that all away.
    @CommanderRoss, this is exactly the reason I never read any Young Bond books, even though I read a lot of positive comments especially about Higson´s novels at the time they came out.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    boldfinger wrote: »
    @Timmer enjoy the read and don't forget to channel us your thoughts. I'm very interested to read what you think of it.

    @PussyNoMore I disagree on the Young Bond idea. as i've stated in the comic book thread, the whole idea of a 'young Bond' undermines the concept of Bond. When we don't know his background, he's just an ordinary person ending up in extraordinary circumstances (his current job). So we can relate and fantasize that we might have had a chance to find ourselves in the same situation. Fleming explicitly wrote Bond like that: it's basically Fleming's fantasy of himself.
    Now if you go and make extraordinary stories of Bond when he was young, you take all that away. It has nothing to do with masculinity, it has everything to do with the 'realism' of the fantasy. As any fighter pilot can dream of becoming an ace, so should every man be able to feel a bit like Bond himself, and every woman fantasize about meeting him in the flesh. With unbelieveable stories (except to North Koreans, they're fedd stories KJU made 11 holes-in one on his first golf game) about how Bond saved the world ten times over before he was 20 you take that all away.
    @CommanderRoss, this is exactly the reason I never read any Young Bond books, even though I read a lot of positive comments especially about Higson´s novels at the time they came out.
    Agreed. Even though I've read the Higson novels (which are very well written), it's the idea of Young Bond that's bad. @CommanderRoss cited them all correctly. They depicted him as if he was building up to becoming Batman, or a superhero the world deserves. No. That is not Fleming's Bond. Cinematic Bond, perhaps (depending on the incarnation), but not Fleming's literary protagonist.
  • Posts: 4,044
    boldfinger wrote: »
    @Timmer enjoy the read and don't forget to channel us your thoughts. I'm very interested to read what you think of it.

    @PussyNoMore I disagree on the Young Bond idea. as i've stated in the comic book thread, the whole idea of a 'young Bond' undermines the concept of Bond. When we don't know his background, he's just an ordinary person ending up in extraordinary circumstances (his current job). So we can relate and fantasize that we might have had a chance to find ourselves in the same situation. Fleming explicitly wrote Bond like that: it's basically Fleming's fantasy of himself.
    Now if you go and make extraordinary stories of Bond when he was young, you take all that away. It has nothing to do with masculinity, it has everything to do with the 'realism' of the fantasy. As any fighter pilot can dream of becoming an ace, so should every man be able to feel a bit like Bond himself, and every woman fantasize about meeting him in the flesh. With unbelieveable stories (except to North Koreans, they're fedd stories KJU made 11 holes-in one on his first golf game) about how Bond saved the world ten times over before he was 20 you take that all away.
    @CommanderRoss, this is exactly the reason I never read any Young Bond books, even though I read a lot of positive comments especially about Higson´s novels at the time they came out.
    Agreed. Even though I've read the Higson novels (which are very well written), it's the idea of Young Bond that's bad. @CommanderRoss cited them all correctly. They depicted him as if he was building up to becoming Batman, or a superhero the world deserves. No. That is not Fleming's Bond. Cinematic Bond, perhaps (depending on the incarnation), but not Fleming's literary protagonist.

    I’ve not read them. Are they specifically building up to becoming literary Bond, or could it be taken as leading to generic cinematic Bond?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    vzok wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    @Timmer enjoy the read and don't forget to channel us your thoughts. I'm very interested to read what you think of it.

    @PussyNoMore I disagree on the Young Bond idea. as i've stated in the comic book thread, the whole idea of a 'young Bond' undermines the concept of Bond. When we don't know his background, he's just an ordinary person ending up in extraordinary circumstances (his current job). So we can relate and fantasize that we might have had a chance to find ourselves in the same situation. Fleming explicitly wrote Bond like that: it's basically Fleming's fantasy of himself.
    Now if you go and make extraordinary stories of Bond when he was young, you take all that away. It has nothing to do with masculinity, it has everything to do with the 'realism' of the fantasy. As any fighter pilot can dream of becoming an ace, so should every man be able to feel a bit like Bond himself, and every woman fantasize about meeting him in the flesh. With unbelieveable stories (except to North Koreans, they're fedd stories KJU made 11 holes-in one on his first golf game) about how Bond saved the world ten times over before he was 20 you take that all away.
    @CommanderRoss, this is exactly the reason I never read any Young Bond books, even though I read a lot of positive comments especially about Higson´s novels at the time they came out.
    Agreed. Even though I've read the Higson novels (which are very well written), it's the idea of Young Bond that's bad. @CommanderRoss cited them all correctly. They depicted him as if he was building up to becoming Batman, or a superhero the world deserves. No. That is not Fleming's Bond. Cinematic Bond, perhaps (depending on the incarnation), but not Fleming's literary protagonist.

    I’ve not read them. Are they specifically building up to becoming literary Bond, or could it be taken as leading to generic cinematic Bond?
    The Higson books are written to be build-ups towards the literary Bond. Don't know about Cole since I haven't read any of them. But while they are somewhat enjoyable, I just can't bring myself to accept the concept of "how James Bond saved the world before he became the hero he today is". I'd accept his young adult period to come around, but not his teen years. It just isn't Fleming's Bond.
  • Posts: 12,837
    vzok wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    @Timmer enjoy the read and don't forget to channel us your thoughts. I'm very interested to read what you think of it.

    @PussyNoMore I disagree on the Young Bond idea. as i've stated in the comic book thread, the whole idea of a 'young Bond' undermines the concept of Bond. When we don't know his background, he's just an ordinary person ending up in extraordinary circumstances (his current job). So we can relate and fantasize that we might have had a chance to find ourselves in the same situation. Fleming explicitly wrote Bond like that: it's basically Fleming's fantasy of himself.
    Now if you go and make extraordinary stories of Bond when he was young, you take all that away. It has nothing to do with masculinity, it has everything to do with the 'realism' of the fantasy. As any fighter pilot can dream of becoming an ace, so should every man be able to feel a bit like Bond himself, and every woman fantasize about meeting him in the flesh. With unbelieveable stories (except to North Koreans, they're fedd stories KJU made 11 holes-in one on his first golf game) about how Bond saved the world ten times over before he was 20 you take that all away.
    @CommanderRoss, this is exactly the reason I never read any Young Bond books, even though I read a lot of positive comments especially about Higson´s novels at the time they came out.
    Agreed. Even though I've read the Higson novels (which are very well written), it's the idea of Young Bond that's bad. @CommanderRoss cited them all correctly. They depicted him as if he was building up to becoming Batman, or a superhero the world deserves. No. That is not Fleming's Bond. Cinematic Bond, perhaps (depending on the incarnation), but not Fleming's literary protagonist.

    I’ve not read them. Are they specifically building up to becoming literary Bond, or could it be taken as leading to generic cinematic Bond?
    The Higson books are written to be build-ups towards the literary Bond. Don't know about Cole since I haven't read any of them. But while they are somewhat enjoyable, I just can't bring myself to accept the concept of "how James Bond saved the world before he became the hero he today is". I'd accept his young adult period to come around, but not his teen years. It just isn't Fleming's Bond.

    I completely agree, it's just a bad concept imo, but to be fair we're looking at it as adult fans, when they were actually aimed at kids/teens weren't they? One of my nephews read one when he was younger and told me about it. So I think the idea might not work for a lot of us lot but it does have a place, introducing kids who probably didn't even know Bond started with books to Fleming's world. And I haven't actually read them but if a purist like @PussyNoMore enjoys them then I imagine they could have turned out a lot worse.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I read Hurricane Gold, A good kids adventure story, but not Bond, so didn't bother with any others.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 17,756
    I could see myself enjoying something like the Young Bond series at a younger age, by reading your comments. For me, it started with reading the comic strips - brilliantly illustrated by John McLusky, that were published in a James Bond magazine when I was around 7-8 years old. At around the same time I also enjoyed reading Horowitz's Alex Rider books - which I guess can be seen as a present day set alternative to Young Bond(?)

    If I remember correctly, I more or less jumped straight from the Alex Rider books to reading Fleming, so that makes Horowitz writing Bond now extra enjoyable.


    Edit: So it's easy to see how Young Bond could be a good introduction to the 'real thing' - even if it isn't totally Fleming in the way it's presented.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 520

    @PussyNoMore I disagree on the Young Bond idea. as i've stated in the comic book thread, the whole idea of a 'young Bond' undermines the concept of Bond. When we don't know his background, he's just an ordinary person ending up in extraordinary circumstances (his current job). So we can relate and fantasize that we might have had a chance to find ourselves in the same situation. Fleming explicitly wrote Bond like that: it's basically Fleming's fantasy of himself.
    Now if you go and make extraordinary stories of Bond when he was young, you take all that away. It has nothing to do with masculinity, it has everything to do with the 'realism' of the fantasy. As any fighter pilot can dream of becoming an ace, so should every man be able to feel a bit like Bond himself, and every woman fantasize about meeting him in the flesh. With unbelieveable stories (except to North Koreans, they're fedd stories KJU made 11 holes-in one on his first golf game) about how Bond saved the world ten times over before he was 20 you take that all away.

    Bondologists, the Commander makes a good point. It is well thought through and in truth ‘The Pussy’ has never reflected on this aspect of things.
    This is probably because it is the art of the fantasy as much as the fantasy itself that resonates with him.
    That is to say, how do you take the tropes of Fleming’s Bond and the way he was written (the art of the fantasy) and construct a youth legend in an exciting way.
    This is something that, in PussyNoMore’s not so humble opinion, Higson did with consummate skill.
    Did the fact that he saved the world before he was twenty dilute the fantasy we all have about Bond’s adult life ? Not for this reader. Simply because for him, an essential part of enjoying Bond is just to dream.
    We seem to have digressed from FAAD albeit, to good effect.
    Are there any more reviered aficionados out there with reviews ?

  • Posts: 4,622
    I'm 100 pages in. It's a really good read. Loved the casino stuff and interlude w femme fatale.
    I presume The Russian Roulette chapter is what borrows from the new previously unseen Fleming material. Horowitz deftly weaves this stuff into the story
    The Acid Test chapter was very well done. We are getting some good insights into Bonds evolving 00 persona.
    As for Young Bond, Cole has got him almost to age 16. He's quite formidable now, and very much on the secret service radar.
    Horowitz in the early going here is referencing Bond's dangerous wartime exploits, where he did his share of killing, presumably as espionage operative, and subsequent recruitment to the secret service.
    If the Young Bond saga is to continue, I'd consider jumping him ahead to age 18 and early encounters with the emerging Nazi threat.
    This way we can get Bond up to a young adult age, now enjoying more adult liasons with women and the killing of nasty Nazis.
    No more Bond as only formidable teenager.
  • Posts: 520
    timmer wrote: »
    I'm 100 pages in. It's a really good read.
    ..........The Acid Test chapter was very well done. ..........

    Too true. ‘ The Acid Test’ chapter is fantastic.

  • Posts: 623
    I finished it this afternoon. I didn't read it when it came out because I'd just started another book which ended up being a page-turner. But yes, it's a great read. One bit I was waiting for....
    I'm sure I read somewhere that the villain killed people by squashing them under his great weight. But that didn't happen in the book. Did anyone else read that? Or did I dream it?

    Also...
    The gay villain caressing Bond on the chair was right out of Skyfall, wasn't it? Not that it mattered. And where Bond gets his 'shaken not stirred' line from, I don't think Fleming's Bond actually used that line, did he? that's a little crumb for the movie-Bond lovers I think.

    But great stuff. There was some proper spying going on. Disguises, daring-do, last minute escapes and some quite poignant moments like..
    Before Bond shoots Reade Griffith at the end, he looks at the inscription in the cigarette case. You know his fate is sealed then. It's a revenge kill.

    I also like liked it that Bond is not really any different to the fully-formed Bond. None of the 'Bond begins and we find out what makes him ruthless' malarkey. He is ruthless, already.
    It's been a while since I read a complete Bond novel, so I don't really know where it falls in the great scheme of things critically, but it's certainly a much better book than Carte Blanche, which I've still yet to get past the first few chapters, and you don't feel like the book's pandering to the fans of the films very much, which is how Benson's books always felt.
    I do hope he does another, and that the next one is placed in the Fleming timeline like Trigger Mortis was, with a little character overlap, like Pussy Galore was. I don't mind those liberties being taken with a storyteller as capable as Horowitz.

  • Posts: 520
    Shamanimal makes some good points.
    One thing we haven’t discussed is the technique of the ‘double villain’ employed here.
    PussyNoMore thought the Scipio / Griffith partnership worked quite well - much in the same way as Fleming’s did with Largo / Blofeld in Thunderball. Albeit Blofeld was much more in the background than Griffith
    .
    This technique is particularly interesting because it allows two types of battles to take place in the same story.
    In this instance, the battle against the master criminal (Scipio) and the madman (Griffith). Both of whom have quite different motives.
    The Pussy thought Horowitz handled this way of doing things particularly well.
    Have any of you renowned Bondologists got any views on this ?
  • Posts: 520
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Why another thread when there is already an Anthony Horowitz thread which is good enough as we will not learn anything new for easily another year. This is pollution in my humble view and makes life more difficult fro folks following a certain subject.

    Please close this one and continue in the other thread dedicated so far to Trigger Mortis.

    PussyNoMore thinks it’s a good job we didn’t follow SaintMark’s advice on this one!

  • Posts: 1,296
    I havent read this new book yet, so excited, but yeah so don't spoil it for me!
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    There is a review thread where you can spoil it all you want, chaps (looking forward to checking it out when I've read the book):

    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/18743/forever-and-a-day-reviews-spoilers
  • Posts: 154
    No spoilers here. About a quarter of the way through FOREVER AND A DAY. Love it. So far, this might be my favorite Bond since the Fleming novels. Hope Horowitz keeps it up all the way through. Very pleased. TRIGGER MORTIS was solid but I think this is much better.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 4,622
    Book finished ! Great read!
    I do have plenty of observations though. I say observations, rather than quibbles because the book as a whole hangs together well

    It's a well recommended Bond read. That said I wonder about some of the authors choices.
    What is he trying to tell us or more to the point, why is he presenting certain scenarios the way he does.
    For example, I thought the final meeting with the CIA officer was written somewhat oddly.
    That's one example. I have others.
    Again, I consider these to be more observations, not quibbles so much, as we do have to extend a degree of narrative license to the author

    I shall expand in due course in the other big spoiler thread.
    In the meantime FAAD is I think a very significant contribution to the Bond lit canon.
    It's a bold provocative read. It had me engaged from beginning to end.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Sigh. Still haven't received my copy. Probably the last on the forum to get it.
  • Posts: 5,993
    No, you're not. In fact, I'm waiting for the Mass Market Trade Paperback to read it. So it might take some time. But I'll buy it and read it, that's for sure. Meanwhile, I have the last two Young Bond novels to read. It will keep me occupied until then.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    negative here as of yet too @PropertyOfALady. I put the order out but it'll take time to come my way and I'll probably be occupied too much for the comng months.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    I feel that Anthony Horowitz is the Martin Campbell of 007 authors. Trigger Mortis is like Goldeneye, and it seems that Forever and A Day is like Casino Royale in reviews.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Horowitz did put together two 007 books, and the last one better than the first, So I would not mind him doing a third.

    I find it impossible to compare the books to the movie series because they are two different beasties.

    Horowitz is welcome gift after the famous writer trilogy who did manage to not mess up the literary side of Flemings heritage but in some way did not improve it either. Horowitz, Higson and Samantha Weinberg all did better than expected.
  • Posts: 520
    Reading these column inches, PussyNomore finds it bizarre that whereas the Bond movie buffs are prepared to put up with the most variable cinematic output, nothing short of the resurrection of one Ian Lancaster Fleming could possibly satisfy some literary aficionados.
    In the round, surely we aren't so precious. Isn't it simple? Is the book a rattling good yarn and does the author capture Fleming's high old tone ?
    The Pussy thinks that Anthony Horowitz does a bang up job on both counts and prays that IFP hangs on to him.
    Frankly, as fare as the Fleming original material is concerned - come on, it's for the birds (sorry Birdleson). It comprises six vignettes (there are actually four left) that were skeletal outlines for a TV series that never made it to the screen. They contain nothing of any significance and are purely a marketing ploy.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    Both of his 007 books are most excellent and I have not enjoyed a continuation novel since CS.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,790
    I took that as a respectful observation of a difference of opinion--as in apologies in advance. Either for the phrase as similar to the user name @Birdleson... or maybe the Fleming content approach.

    However, I do take exception to the negative use of the "for the birds" comment, @PussyNoMore. On the other hand I wouldn't want to limit the use of that phrase. Hmm. It's actually something to encourage. So, okay. Never mind.
  • Posts: 520
    I took that as a respectful observation of a difference of opinion--as in apologies in advance. Either for the phrase as similar to the user name @Birdleson... or maybe the Fleming content approach.

    However, I do take exception to the negative use of the "for the birds" comment, @PussyNoMore. On the other hand I wouldn't want to limit the use of that phrase. Hmm. It's actually something to encourage. So, okay. Never mind.

    RichardTheBruce, you are correct. It was intended as a respectful observation but worry not, PussyNoMore’s rattle remains firmly in his pram.
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    Both of his 007 books are most excellent and I have not enjoyed a continuation novel since CS.

    Absolutely !

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