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The wrong message came once again from Israel which basically does what it wants because they expect in Trump to once more have a silent partner that will not critise and pay the bills. He only twitters so who cares.
;)
When the Earthbound lefties and the Pluto high command overlords lose their minds, you are doing something right.
@trip is talking apples and oranges. He seems to think America needs a strong negotiating stance vis-a-vis Israel, like Israel is some sort of adversary.
The issue is having a strong negotiating stance vis-a-vis the UN viper-nations, who are bent on destroying the only democracy in the middle east, although their bent isn't so much an anti-democracy stance (although there is that) but more to the point, they hate Jews and even worse the notion of a Jewish state in their midst.
IMO there is no solution to the Mideast crisis. All one can hope for is a strong democratic and free state of Israel- a staunch ally of the west in a very unstable area.
There really can't be any solution, because Israel is surrounded by countries that want to annihilate it.
The Palestinians are pawns of the broader Arab states surrounding them, none of which give a damn about their plight. The goal is to destroy Israel, not create a homeland for the Palestinians. No-one cares about them. Certainly not their so-called Arab brethren.
There is no solution to the Mideast crisis. Israel will always be in a defacto state of war with its despotic Arab neighbors.
Israel relies heavily on its relationship with the USA and the broader Western alliance in order to maintain its survival.
Israel is to a degree an aberration, as it was created in the aftermath of World War II, much to the consternation of the neighboring Arab States, not to mention Communist Soviet Russia, but it has become part of the Western alliance, specifically in its relations with the USA
I'm all for the settlements, as it gives Israel and the USA leverage in any "peace" (uneasy cessation of hostilities is about all one can really hope for) negotiations with surrounding despotic regimes bent on Israel's destruction.
Don't give away bargaining chips, that you don't have to -negotiating 101, which Trump understands and Obama doesn't, at least if you have any hope of striking a favourable bargain, and that is the goal.
If a two-state solution can be found, great. I have no confidence in that happening.
In the meantime the defacto State of War shall persist. The Paestinians will continue to be abused and mistreated by all sides. Such is war.
I have no resolution to the mideast crisis and I don't think anyone else does either.
Debating what to do does not interest me, as I don't think the crisis is actually resolvable.
Tensions will persist indefinitely.
But the point that is really germane to this thread is that Isreal, with the incoming U.S. administration,again has an unequivocal reliable ally to help defend its interests in the region.
Again, the new U.S. administration will continue to honor the time honored USA tradition of vetoing anti-Israel resolutions at the Viper-cesspool-pit-abyss that is the United Nations.
Bravo!
timmer, why do you hate Israel?
Anyway, I was quite clear.
I don't dismiss a two-state solution, but I don't see any possibility of it happening. The Arab bloc want to destroy Israel. They don't care about a Palestinian state.
What matters is this
the new administration will respect the time-honored USA tradition of vetoing anti-Israel resolutions at the Viper-cesspool-pit-abyss that is the United Nations
I have no solution to ending tensions, or finding peace. The situation is at impasse. The reality for Israel is that it is surrounded by enemies bent on its destruction.
The USA is its ally.
They shovel the sh*t & you suck it in.
The most dangerous thing to Israel (and every other nation) is arrogant incompetence & avarice. Yeah ISIL is bad, and Israel is kinda hated in the region, but hell let's chuck reality for the old bait & switch.
To quote Carver, "Pathetic." :))
Conservative Jews are in the minority. In all, most Jews do not agree with Netanyahu and his policies. Don't forget: it was the Likuds who assassinated Rabin, when Netanyahu denounced Rabin's attempts at peace. Netanyahu doesn't want peace.
If Netanyahu has a problem with the U.S., he is more than welcome to give us back the $4B in aid he receives annually.
Alas, we are at impasse. I am right. You are wrong. There is no two-state" solution here. :P
Nice try though.
@trip I'd say liberal Jews are in the minority, but it doesn't matter, that not the point.
The conservative Jews best represent Israel's continued survival and prosperity, in my humble correct opinion of course.
Netanyahu doesn't have a problem with the USA. He has a problem with Obama. He can keep the cash. Money well spent.
===Main point and again I have no resolution to the problem,
is that the new administration supports Israeli self-determination in the region and will
respect the time-honored USA tradition of vetoing anti-Israel resolutions at the Viper-cesspool-pit-abyss that is the United Nations
This is a good thing.
Israel is our ally. The world is always at war. We support our allies.
Vive le Israel!
Two lovely Miss Israels. Committed members of the international Miss Universe World Peace
initiative.
The lovely Gal Gadot Miss Israel, Miss Universe contestant 2004
and honorable two-years of national service in the Israel Defence forces - combat instructor
Gal is awesome.
Seeing, as you asked - another tribute to Miss Israel. Actually - as a tribute to regional peace and harmony, how about a nod to the lovely Miss Lebanon
A fascinating story by the way.
==
Miss Lebanon will not lose her title for selfie with Miss Israel
Miss Lebanon will not be stripped of her title or punished for posing for a photograph with Miss Israel, the Lebanese government said.
“According to the information we obtained, Miss Lebanon [Saly Greige] did not have bad intentions that necessitates her being stripped of her title or punishment,” said Michel Pharaon, Lebanon’s Tourism minister, in a televised press conference on Friday.
He spoke after photographs taken at the Miss Universe contest in Miami showed beauty queens from Israel, Slovenia and Japan around Miss Lebanon, causing uproar back home.
Lebanon and Israel remain at war and it is illegal in Lebanon to have any contact with an Israeli.
“Miss Lebanon has been the subject of a racist and random campaign,” said Mr Pharaon. “I see that we should support her.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/lebanon/11365673/Miss-Lebanon-will-not-lose-her-title-for-selfie-with-Miss-Israel.html
Close call for Miss Lebanon. Whew!
The incoming administration I am confident, will endevour to protects the rights and freedoms of peace-loving Miss Universe candidates, everywhere!! =D>
Secretary of State John Kerry gave his awaited speech on the Israel/Palestine peace process today. He went into a lot of detail about why the Obama Administration abstained at last week's UN vote. In short, he alleged that the current Israeli Administration is not acting in a manner conducive to peace or a two state solution. He suggested that it was run by extremist elements within it (perhaps referring to the current coalition government which includes both Avigdor Liberman, head of the hard-line nationalist Yisrael Beiteinu Party, as Foreign Minister as well as settler movement advocate and leader of the Jewish Home Party, Naftali Bennett, as Education Minister).
He also said that a 'one state' solution means either a Jewish state or a democratic state, but not both, referring to the view that Israel will increasingly become an 'apartheid' state if it was to pursue a one state solution. Mr. Kerry also commented on the settlements, which he says are an obstacle to peace, because they are situated on lands which are to form part of a future Palestinian State. In particular, Mr. Kerry said that the positioning of such settlements makes it difficult for the Palestinians to ever have a connected state, referring to Gaza and the West Bank. He said that the US vote at the UN was consistent with American values and policy, which is to facilitate a two state solution. Mr. Kerry also insisted that 'settlement activity' did not have anything to do with Israel's security, and that the Obama Administration had been a great friend to Israel, recently approving a $38bn defense assistance deal. He further contended that the US did not draft or originate the UN resolution, in response to allegations by Mr. Netanyahu and his ambassador. “Friends need to tell each other the hard truths.” Mr. Kerry said.
Prior to Mr. Kerry's speech, President Elect Trump tweeted: "We cannot continue to let Israel be treated with such total disdain and disrespect. They used to have a great friend in the U.S., but.......not anymore. The beginning of the end was the horrible Iran deal, and now this (U.N.)! Stay strong Israel, January 20th is fast approaching!"
In response, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu tweeted: "President-elect Trump, thank you for your warm friendship and your clear-cut support for Israel!"
Mr. Netanyahu later called Mr. Kerry's speech "disappointing"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/28/kerry-defends-us-decision-to-not-veto-un-condemnation-of-israeli-settlements
It is my personal view that settlements are not conducive to peace. I think it's important to make a distinction between the State of Israel and its security, and the current Likud Government. Mr. Netanyahu has only recently signed onto the two state solution (and there are many who think he doesn't really want it even now but is just going along for appearance purposes). For years he actively worked against the Oslo Accords and also undermined the Camp David Summit. Bill Clinton himself has indicated that Mr. Netanyahu scuppered the previous Camp David deal. Mr. Clinton, upon meeting Mr. Netanyahu for the first time, famously said: “Who the f--k does he think he is? Who's the f---ing superpower here?". The imeu article below gives some background on the history.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/09/22/bill-clinton-netanyahu-killed-the-peace-process/
http://imeu.org/article/does-netanyahu-really-support-the-two-state-solution
Paradoxically, the Obama Administration's approach in its dying days in power vis-a-vis Israel may actually help the incoming Trump Administration. By taking on the role of 'bad cop' & making some tough calls now, Mr. Obama and Mr. Kerry are essentially falling on their swords, & opening the way for President Elect Trump to try and extract some concessions from Mr. Netanyahu in return for a better relationship. I hope Mr. Trump sees the opportunity and takes it. He apparently spoke with Mr. Obama earlier today but it was not clear what the conversation was about.
In a short press conference, President Elect Trump announced that Sprint would be bringing 5000 jobs back into the US which were previously performed offshore. He also indicated that a new company called OneWeb would be hiring 3000 people. Both deals were apparently facilitated by Masayoshi "Masa" Son, the CEO of SoftBank, who has an investment in OneWeb.
"They're taking them from other countries. They're bringing them back to the United States...A nice change." said the President Elect.
@timmer, outstanding posts of the Miss Israel participants, and I'm personally grateful that you also spread a little conciliatory love with the fantastic Miss Lebanon. I forgot that the stunning Wonder Woman was once in the IDF.
<:-P
A vile, nasty, treacherous serpent this man Netanyahu is. He even admitted in his blistering speech that Israel has been suffering from terrorist attacks since the foundation of the country....and even before that. Well, if you realize that, then it is apparent this man doesn't give a rat's ass about peace. He stays into power thanks to a very conservative, hateful, orthodox bunch of weirdo's. And if guys like @Timmer and BondJames keep glorifying that, then we know where they stand with their ethical beliefs.
Yes. Quite! Mr Netanyahu, Prime Mininster of Israel, served notice long ago, that he had no use for feckless Obama, and thats putting it politely.
Canadian Prime Minister Harper (for 9 years) was ardent supporter of Israel and also had no use for Obama, although his disdain was far more diplomatic, what with Canada not having barbarians at its gate, bent on its destruction.
Netanyahu can't afford to waste time with incompetents like Obama.
But of course, in Pluto lala-land, Netanyahu dares thumb nose at Obama, thus must be dealt with "severely." Bad boy. Partisan Pluto politics trumps all.
Newsflash! In a democracy, which Israel is, unlike the barbaric despotic states that surround it, dealing "severely'" means voting opponents out.
Like, what went down with Hillary last month. Or in her case, voting to keep her out.
Will of the people can be a bitch ( and that's not a cheap shot ("bitch") at HRC. Just came out that way)
If the Israeli people ever dump Netanyahu ( which they might, all leaders have a shelf life), President-Elect, I am confident will support the new Israel government in its ongoing battle to preserve sovereignty and national interests in the perpetual hostile environment it must contend with as everyday life.
also from @bondjames .
Yes, happy to provide some love to a beleaguered Arab State contestant. Persecuted by her own government for daring to be seen in a selfie with Miss Israel. The horror!
Such an enlightened regime. And to think, it was not so long ago, that Lebanon was considered an almost safe space in that wacked out world. Things are just getting worse.
Has Netanyahu barred any Miss Israels from posing with Arab State contestants? No? Ah, didn't think so.
Now this is just my opinion ( unlike others opinionating as fact, the outcomes of certain elections in advance) I honestly do not believe a two-state solution is viable.
It's a pipe dream, again my opinion. Not being of that other persuasion, I can separate fact from mere observation.
I offer this humble (ie those who, gasp!, might disagree, need not be "dealt with severely") observation because Israel's murderous enemies simply cannot be trusted any further then say the radius of your average truck-bomb explosion ie not at all - being pathologically bent on the destruction and annihilation of Israel.
The Ayatollahs in Iran would have launched full-scale attack long ago, IMO of course, if they thought they could get away with it.
Meantime Iran amused itself waging endless internecine war with its Arab brothers in Iraq.
Israel though has effective military deterrent and does hold a big stick.
Big sticks are the only things that keep bad dogs at bay.
Any supposed Palestinian state would be another enemy on Israels doorstep.
The Palestinians are simply pawns of their despotic neighbors, who care not a whit about them, being in a perpetual state of war with the democratic-Jewish state of Israel.
Personally a one-state solution I think is far more viable. Again my opinion, as no solution I fear is probably the reality.
But if by some chance, Israel could "negotiate" ( I use the term loosely, as such a "negotiation" would require very strong negotiating "leverage") a one-state solution, the disparate Palestinian people might be absorbed into the Jewish state.
There are plenty of Arabs and even Palestinians already living peacefully in Israel and not wanting or needing to blow things up.
With the support of both USA (incoming admin of course) and some accommodation with Russia, that could be enough to prevent the Irans and Saudi Arabias of the region from unloading their arsenals on the new state, at least for a little while anyway.
The defacto state-of-war I fear though, will persist indefinitely, under either a two-state or one-state "solution", but one-state I think would best serve the interests of our democratic ally in the region. No-state alas is probably the continued reality.
Nevertheless, I will gladly accept nominations for Nobel Peace prize.
In fact if someone would like to furnish me with a bullet-proof vest, a heavily-armed security detail, and armoured car, I would even visit the region and broker the "peace."
meantime you can find me busying preparations for the (2017 edition)
Miss Iran is quite welcome. Selfies with fellow contestants encouraged.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-would-need-larry-kudlow-to-be-focused-on-economics-not-politics/
Trump is creating the perfect conditions to make his presidency a 1-term presidency.
Actually no. I truly hope he does good things for every American. Really. People tend to forget that. I very much like the USA. And sooner or later it will be seen as a real safe haven of thoughtful freedom and democracy now countries like Turkey, China, Russia are becoming so powerful. Let's hope Mr Trump realizes that.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/white-house-sanctions-russia-over-election-hacks-233034
It also shows that Obama is totally sick of Trump. But then again, this entire year Trump has shown that he was sick of Obama. So really surprising this isn't. But it does show that Trump needs to get to work on day #1. He can't just wipe away solid proof showing that Russia is humiliating the USA with means of cyber warfare. And how will Trump deal with Republican senators like John McCain who now forcefully seem to team up with the Democrats?
Well, at least this shows Obama has some serious balls. Trump has balls too. But I do prefer Obama's balls.
And then this:
I'm not surprised. The moderate Republican senators are going to make life difficult for Trump...very difficult. 1/3rd of all Republican senators and all Democratic senators teaming up together: that will put some serious cracks in Trumps proposed foreign policy agenda -if there is one-.
And this is how it should be the case. Still a majority of Americans feel humiliated if they become Putin's lapdog.
Anyway, I think the following stuff is important for everyone to read. Not the crap that you find on the internet. But good, insightful, investigative, neutral journalism. The three articles are long. And most likely most of the forummembers in here don't even dare to read this, because it's simply too lengthy stuff. Which is sad though, because everyone in here ought to read this.
So for all of you, three great articles from an October edition of 'The Economist' (last week of October 2016). I used my 13 megapixel Sony Xperia camera for it, so everything is perfectly readable. Enjoy:
Once you have read it, you should be damn sceptical about Russia, about 'Putinism', and Putin's true intentions. I don't want to fear people, but these articles gave me a very uncomfortable feeling about the prospect that Russia will start dictating politics in Europe and the USA. Frankly, it frightens me.
I was scanning the other thread. I like to look at pictures and maybe cartoons (I don't have any interest in crashing the party though) but I notice the model is coming along real well.
As you pop by anyway, to the Make American Great Again thread, if you want to pop the odd picture in here too, maybe, if not, it doesn't kill me to peek over there.
Cheers!
the "real" Seaview in drydock? :-O
Cheers to you too and how you admit that you are merely...scanning topics like these. Probably you are one of those forummembers in here I was referring to; someone who would probably never fully read the articles I posted, but who instead prefers looking at....indeed......pictures and likes 'scanning' posts :-). Cheers @Timmer ;-).
Thanks for posting. However, I hope you're not suggesting that members of this forum don't have the aptitude to read an Economist article. Some of us, myself included, have been subscribers since our University days. I read that article when it came out. There are some useful facts there, but little of it is new to me. People should be aware that the Economist is an excellent source of information on world affairs that is published weekly. However, viewers must keep in mind that it is opinionated, since they take a point of view on the subjects that they report on. They are not always right, despite always having very informative articles backed up by facts, so take their opinion with a grain of salt. As just one example, I recall them advocating heavily for the Iraq War with lots of facts to back it up, and they regret that to this day.
You'll forgive me for thinking that you are indeed trying to scare people since you use the word 'frighten' multiple times on nearly every political thread for some reason. Perhaps you are easily frightened, and then it's understandable. Anyway, the article doesn't scare me. Mr. Putin is a proud Russian nationalist, and he is doing what he feels is right for his nation, as any leader should. Russia has been fighting an 'economic' war, an 'information' war, a 'currency' war, and a 'cyber' war with the US since he returned as President in 2012, and most clearly since 2014. Russia has been under US and EU sanctions on account of Crimea, so it's not surprising that he's beefing up the FSB and consolidating control, as he believes the West is trying to undermine him. That behaviour will continue as long as we have a hostile relationship with him - if the West wants a cornered Russian Bear, then that is what it will get.
The oil price collapse over the last few years was no accident - it was designed to hurt Russia as much as the shale oil producers in the US & the Canadian tar sands. Notice how OPEC was suddenly able to strike a deal after the US elections, despite being unable to do so for years. The oil price has started to rise, which will benefit Russia. There's a new paradigm coming, and countries know it.
The Obama Administration today announced a series of 'retaliatory' sanctions against Russia. This includes economic sanctions, diplomatic censure, and possible cyber retaliation. In addition, 35 Russian intelligenct officials were expelled and two Russian intelligence compounds in the US, one in Maryland and the other in New York, were shut. Furthermore, steps were taken to censure the FSB (Federal Security Bureau), the successor to the KGB, and the GRU ( Russia's Military Intelligence Unit). The sanctions were levied by Executive Order, implying they could be reversed by the incoming Trump Administration.
If looks could kill!
“I have issued an executive order that provides additional authority for responding to certain cyber activity that seeks to interfere with or undermine our election processes and institutions, or those of our allies or partners,” Mr. Obama said
President Elect Trump, who spoke with Mr. Obama about these upcoming sanctions yesterday, said: “in the interest of our country and its great people, I will meet with leaders of the intelligence community next week in order to be updated on the facts of this situation.”
Konstantin Kosachyov, chairman of the international affairs committee in the upper house of the Russian parliament, likened the Obama Administration to “the death throes of political corpses”
The Russian Foreign Ministry said that it would make an official announcement regarding countermeasures against the U.S. on Friday. “the American people have been humiliated by their own president.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/29/barack-obama-sanctions-russia-election-hack
This action doesn't surprise me in the slightest, as the Obama Administration had said a few weeks back that retaliation would occur. I also expect Congressional initiatives to increase official economic sanctions on Russia when it reconvenes next year. There will be an attempt to tie the incoming Trump Administration's hand on a Russia rapprochement, as it is not in the CIA & MIC's interests. They are still smarting badly from their failed plan to continue their arms supplies to rebels (in particular to Al Nusra, Syria's Al Qaeda affiliate, and ISIL) in Syria and need a new client to sell weapons into.
Enter Ukraine. I expect an attempt to increase weapons sales into Ukraine to begin sometime next year, increasing tensions with Russia. Let's see if I'm right. This will also serve an added benefit. Namely to assist governments in France and Germany (who are facing contentious elections next year) to mobilize their countrymen and women against an external European threat other than Muslim immigrants. The big bad Russian Bear always works.
It will be interesting to see how the Trump Administration handles this, which I'm sure was pre-planned with a Hillary Clinton Administration in mind.
Mr. Putin has tactically outsmarted the US at every juncture to date, and I'm sure he will be ready for this move as well.
In related news, the beleaguered Angela Merkel CDU government in Germany, who is facing elections next year and an increasingly irate public, is contemplating fining Facebook£425,000 (500,000 Euros or $522,000) for each fake new item that it posts unless they are deleted from the site within 24 hrs.
The Government is increasingly concerned about 'fake news' and 'hate speech' impacting the elections. A recent spate of immigrant violence in Germany is hurting its electoral chances.
Former friends?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4042014/Germany-threatens-fine-Facebook-hate-speech.html
I am not exactly sure how this argument can be made. Putin's actions, for several years, have disabled the Russian economy. While he's thumping his chest in public, he's crippling his country behind the scenes, at the same time. All of his crap comes with a tremendous price.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/04/12/world/europe/russian-economy-tumbling.html?_r=0
While some conservatives have praised Putin for his "show of strength," Obama and wiser members of Congress know that we have been playing him all along: just let Putin think he's strong...while driving his country into the ditch. He's doing it.
Reagan more or less did the same thing in the 80s with the USSR, whose invasion into Afghanistan was the beginning of the end. Reagan didn't show a whole lot of "strength," not even after the Korean Airlines disaster. No, like Obama, he basically sat back and let the Russians destroy themselves.
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Cleft_country
Mr. Putin had two choices: 1. Go along with the West. This would have eventually weakened Russia geopolitically. It would have become somewhat subservient to Western (& EU) corporate interests as a result, which is essentially what happened in the early 90's under Yeltsin during the time of the oligarchs. 2. Chart its own path, with its security & long term interests first and foremost. He has taken 2., much to the US's and EU's chagrin.
There is no doubt that Russia has been weakened by the sanctions and the oil price manipulation. That has been the West's plan. To destabilize Mr. Putin's government and let it fall from within. The usual playbook. Nothing new here. The impacts are short term. The oil price has been artificially suppressed by oversupply from the US's good buddy Saudi Arabia (at great cost to itself). It is going to increase in the next two years, which will benefit Russia. You will see on page 5 of that article above that Mr. Putin was making investments in high tech industries prior to the sanctions, so Russia has an eye on the future.
This is not like the 80's. Crimea is not Afghanistan. Far from it. The people of Crimea wanted to be closer to Russia than Ukraine, as do many in Eastern Ukraine. Moreover, Russia is not isolated. It does very little business with the US anyway. It is increasingly trading with the East, as a major energy supplier. That is something the US and EU do not like, because it's outside their control. It is also stockpiling gold along with China (which has created a new Shanghai Gold Exchange) and they are both creating new trading organizations and possible economic unions, again which is annoying the US. As an example, the US asked the UK not to become a founding member of China's Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), but the UK went ahead and joined anyway (the US is not a part of it).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Economic_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Infrastructure_Investment_Bank
https://www.sprottmoney.com/blog/china-flexes-muscles-at-shanghai-gold-exchange-jeff-nielson.html
http://www.ecfr.eu/article/essay_eurasian
Bottom line: Russia has indicated clearly that it wants to be respected and dealt with as an equal partner with its own interests in global affairs. Turkey has done the same. Iran has done the same. This does not sit well with the old concept of Western hegemony & Pax Americana, and that is precisely where all this conflict is coming from. We're either going to have to find a new way of working with these countries with shared interests, or we are going to have increased conflict. We are not going to be able to dominate them or dictate to them as in the past.