Should there be a 2 hour limit on Bond movie runtimes?

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  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 541
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    No...a Bond film can be as long or as short as is necessary...oh @tanaka123 be a good chap and pass me the salt for the chip on someones shoulder.

    Sorry I'm supposed to lower my salt intake, I've just donated it to the @M16_Cart Trolling Masterclass Conference 2016

    hahaha!!! :)

    kudos
  • Posts: 4,325
    @M16_Cart you ****
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 541
    I should clarify my argument. This was never intended to be a troll thread at all. An arbitrary limit on film length for any series would be indiscriminate and inadvisable. It depends on the film. Works like Casino Royale and On Her Majesty's Secret Service definitely had enough story content in them for 2.75 hours of content.

    However, for more standard outings, a longer runtime is not as necessary. By now, in the usual case, we know who James Bond is and the basic premise of the plot. It's not necessary to introduce the viewer to every little trope which is well-known to the point where it is expected. Nor are longer chases or set pieces inherently better than shorter ones.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    130 minutes and over is too long for a Bond film, period. 110 - 129 should be the upper and lower limit. It's not just a question of good pacing, but more concise stories lead to less need for bloated action, which in turn reduces production costs which in turn reduces the time they need between films.

    with 2hrs and 25 minutes per film, and 250 million budgets, the only option EON have available too them right now is scaling back.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    The film should be however long it needs to be.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 541
    Yes. Usually, this occurs when there's not a strong plot and the filmmakers need to add in a lot of expensive action scenes to add flavor.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 541
    The film should be however long it needs to be.

    Usually, it doesn't need to be more than 1:50-2:00
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Surely that depends on the story they're trying to tell ? I'd hate to
    Limit anyone's creativity. Just to fit some imposed time restraint.
    For Me, CR flew by.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2017 Posts: 8,399
    Almost every film since the 60's have at least a couple of scenes that don't need to be there, or can be cut down to half the size.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2017 Posts: 8,399
    Surely that depends on the story they're trying to tell ? I'd hate to
    Limit anyone's creativity. Just to fit some imposed time restraint.
    For Me, CR flew by.

    It's not limiting creativity, it's actually forcing creative people to work harder and be smarter.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    You can't Force creativity !
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2017 Posts: 8,399
    You can't Force creativity !

    We already do. We force non-indie films to reach at least 85 minutes and no more than around 3 hours. That's a restraint as it is.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    So a window of 85 minutes to 180 minutes is a restraint ? fair enough.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    So a window of 85 minutes to 180 minutes is a restraint ? fair enough.
    The film should be however long it needs to be.

    I think you answered yourself there. :)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Yes, I think I have, glad you now agree with me. Whether it needs 85 mins or
    180 mins to tell the story, let the creative team make that decision.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2017 Posts: 8,399
    Yes, I think I have, glad you now agree with me. Whether it needs 85 mins or
    180 mins to tell the story, let the creative team make that decision.

    So the film should not be however long it needs to be then? You'd like it to be between 85 and 180 minutes, that's what your saying. OK.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    No, I'm applying the rules you have set out .
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    I didn't make any rules, the companies did. People won't go to see something 4hrs plus in enough numbers to make it commercially viable, not to mention they couldn't fit enough screenings in each day.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    A movie really should be as long as it needs to be to tell the story. I don't know why that's such a disastrous thing.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    A movie really should be as long as it needs to be to tell the story. I don't know why that's such a disastrous thing.

    But Bond films are nearly always follow the same pattern, to the same objective. There's nothing wrong with that. 129 minutes is sufficient to tell any story of that kind. If they want to take more time on the character of Bond, they simply shift the focus from other aspects.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    edited May 2017 Posts: 13,384
    Yes, I agree with that, shorter movies equal more screenings.
    The only problem I have is to make the Bond team have to make
    A film ( no matter how good or bad ) to fit a specific time length
    Of for example 1 HR 45 mins. Rather than giving them the freedom
    To push that to 2hr 25 mins, if they feel it's needed ?
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 541
    My honest opinions.

    Could have been 5 minutes shorter:
    You Only Live Twice, Live and Let Die, The Living Daylights, Octopussy, License to Kill: These are all among my top 5-10 favorites in the series, but they did have a little bit of gratuitous excess which could've been cut to make the films flow like the early Connery films.
    Tomorrow Never Dies: It wasn't necessarily a bloated film. It was one of the leaner Bond entries, but it still had some fluff.

    Could have been 10 minutes shorter:
    GoldenEye, The Spy Who Loved Me: Both are very good but somewhat bloated Bond films. Both take a while to set up in the first act despite not being innovative in plot.
    The World Is Not Enough: A very good film was inside of here somewhere, but it needed focus.
    For Your Eyes Only: It was a classic stripped down Bond film. It should've been minimalist like Connery's outings, since it was trying to emulate them. It's weighed down by corny jokes and some filler.
    Diamonds Are Forever, Die Another Day: I guess the problems in this one go deep beyond the pacing, but there's still plenty of fluff to cut.

    Could have been 15 minutes shorter:
    Spectre: Although it didn't pace particularly poorly either, and it at least tried new things. I'd argue that it needed to utilize its time more effectively more than anything else.
    Moonraker: The first hour just felt like it was there to occupy time and establish a non-existant plot.
    The Man with the Golden Gun: Most of the second act is filler.
    Thunderball: In some ways, arguably Connery's greatest outing, yet in others, his most bloated.
    A View to a Kill: Spending the first half hour with James Bond investigating horses...

    Hypothetically, the runtime of the avg Bond film would go from 125 to 118.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 541
    The only problem I have is to make the Bond team have to make
    A film ( no matter how good or bad ) to fit a specific time length
    Of for example 1 HR 45 mins. Rather than giving them the freedom
    To push that to 2hr 25 mins, if they feel it's needed ?

    I totally agree with your reasoning. It's sort of like a proposal I've heard of limiting bills that a legislative body could pass to 10 pages in length; it's not a fix for the problem. It only sets an arbitrary limit which would be too low for some films and too high for others.

    However, I think crossing the two hour mark should warrant a justification being made. Aka, the writers and director requesting a >2 hr film for the series and listing reasons why it needs to be that length. It doesn't have to be fancy. It could be a two-page long apologia, but >2 hour Bond films need to be done with reason and intent. Not just because it was expensive and they have the footage anyway.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2017 Posts: 8,399
    Great idea @M16_Cart, here are my thoughts.

    Could have been between 5-10 minutes shorter:

    You Only Live Twice, Live And Let Die, Diamonds Are Forever, For Your Eyes Only, The Spy Who Loved Me, Goldeneye


    These films just need a minor tightening for some scenes and the removal of the odd scene to make things flow better.

    Could have been 10-15 minutes shorter:

    The Man with the Golden Gun, The World Is Not Enough, Thunderball, The Living Daylights, Octopussy, OHMSS, Casino Royale

    These films need significant reworks to remove unnecessary stretches, and quicken the pace where things lag.

    Could have been between 15 - 20 minutes shorter:

    SPECTRE, Skyfall, License To Kill, Die Another Day, A View To A Kill, Moonraker

    These films are bloated outings, which require full reworks on a conceptual level in order to correct properly.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    If the movie
  • Posts: 676
    Yes, Bond films should be around 120 min. Most of them drag near the end, and there's no need for 150 min. epics (looking at you, Mendes and fourth act of CR).
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I think CR benefits from being 2:25. If it was less I can almost certainly guarenatee it wouldn't be as good. I wouldn't like having a 3 hour bond film but hey if it's good and creative then ultimately it doesn't matter.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,803
    The film should be however long it needs to be.
    I agree Bond films should be actual length, @Thunderpussy.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I'm not in favour of hard and fast rules necessarily, but I'm not too keen on bloated films either.

    Perhaps if there was a self imposed guideline that they tried to achieve (within the 2 hr to 2:15m mark), that would keep them a little more focused and disciplined. It could also help to avoid unnecessary and unessential tangential plot points and result in a tighter film. As has been mentioned, it could result in more theatre showings too.

    However, it shouldn't be a rule. More of a desired result.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 676
    I think CR benefits from being 2:25. If it was less I can almost certainly guarenatee it wouldn't be as good.
    No way did the airport and sinking house sequences need to be so long. Same with the ponderous romance right after Mathis is arrested. At that point in the movie, you either buy that Bond and Vesper have feelings for each other or you don't. So just get on with it.
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