SPECTRE: So who's going to play Ernst?

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Fixed my last post for coherence. :P
  • Posts: 15,106
    He could be African and Greek, with French. Sure. I think a lot of folks who read the novels do picture him as a European Caucasian because (obviously) he is described at such. But he could be mixed race and black, yes.

    Look, I think Waltz is a very good actor and I am even more excited about him being on board than Ejiofor. My qualms about Blofeld are simply to not make him fir the current well known parody of Blofeld - make him like the novel Blofeld (from what I have recently read now) OR go creative and make him look quite different. But menacing, and I think a quiet menace with lots of strength behind the facade, is important. And I do hope (only my personal hope) that Blofeld is not the main villain in Bond 24; only teased at the end. I won't be crushed if he is ... as long as it is well done and by that I mean different from the public's image and very menacing, a real powerhouse threat for Bond.

    Not if you want to make him close to the novel. And that is my point. Elba would make a great Gallia: he could easily pass as a Haitian, for one, but also he has the right physique, about the right age, etc. You want to be creative, I am all for it, hence go back to Fleming.

    I do hope like you that Blofeld is not the main villain in Bond 24. But I am not sure if he is featured at all in it. So far, the rumour seems to be running mainly on itself.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    He could be African and Greek, with French. Sure. I think a lot of folks who read the novels do picture him as a European Caucasian because (obviously) he is described at such. But he could be mixed race and black, yes.

    Look, I think Waltz is a very good actor and I am even more excited about him being on board than Ejiofor. My qualms about Blofeld are simply to not make him fir the current well known parody of Blofeld - make him like the novel Blofeld (from what I have recently read now) OR go creative and make him look quite different. But menacing, and I think a quiet menace with lots of strength behind the facade, is important. And I do hope (only my personal hope) that Blofeld is not the main villain in Bond 24; only teased at the end. I won't be crushed if he is ... as long as it is well done and by that I mean different from the public's image and very menacing, a real powerhouse threat for Bond.

    Not if you want to make him close to the novel. And that is my point. Elba would make a great Gallia: he could easily pass as a Haitian, for one, but also he has the right physique, about the right age, etc. You want to be creative, I am all for it, hence go back to Fleming.

    I do hope like you that Blofeld is not the main villain in Bond 24. But I am not sure if he is featured at all in it. So far, the rumour seems to be running mainly on itself.

    He could easily be just like the Novel counterpart. The only difference is he would be from a different country. Why is it okay for Moneypenny and Felix but not Blofeld?
  • Posts: 15,106
    Murdock wrote: »
    @Ludovico, It's 2014 not the 1950's. Anything can happen now. Your cherrypicking my response. No duh that Elba couldn't play a Nazi or Soviet. That's not the point I was making. Just because he's British in real life doesn't mean he has to play a Brit on film. 8-|

    This is not what I am saying. If one wants to make Blofeld as close to the novels as possible, why have a British black actor play him? I would be reluctant to have a British white actor playing him, see my many posts on this thread, basically because I think Blofeld should look Eastern European/foreign and British actors are a cliché choice for villains.

    And my question: some 40 odd years ago, how was immigration in communist Poland?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    @Ludovico I couldn't really tell you. I was born in 1991.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 15,106
    .
    Murdock wrote: »
    @Ludovico I couldn't really tell you. I was born in 1991.

    I am not a historian specialized in Polish history, but I know a thing or two about history of immigration. The UK had immigration from Africa and especially the West Indies since after the war. Western countries, for many reasons, were attracting a large deal of immigrants from their former colonies. In the Eastern bloc, that was another story: people were emigrating from it. If there was immigration, it was mainly from inside the bloc. Say Blofeld is in his 40s-50s, like he was in the novel (if it matters to anyone but me). it is highly unlikely that he would have been born in Poland from Black parents. Especially with a name like that, I may add. There must have been Black people in the Eastern bloc for whatever reasons, but an immigration movement, not really. In Deon Meyer's novels, he has Blacks from South Africa training in USSR under KGB supervision to fight Apartheid and from what I know he based it on historical events, which could be used in a Bond movie for a villain, but that would fit far more the character of Gallia.

    On a side note, I always thought had he not decide to become a priest, Karol Wojtyla would have made a great Blofeld for OHMSS.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Blofeld doesn't have to be Polish. He could be whatever EON want him to be.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Murdock wrote: »
    Blofeld doesn't have to be Polish. He could be whatever EON want him to be.

    At this rate, he doesn't have to have Blofeld's name.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Blofeld doesn't have to be Polish. He could be whatever EON want him to be.

    At this rate, he doesn't have to have Blofeld's name.
    That would make me happy considering I don't really want to see Blofeld again. At least in Craig's tenure.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Nigle Farage would hate foreign super villains coming over here putting
    British super villains out of work. :))
  • Posts: 15,106
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Blofeld doesn't have to be Polish. He could be whatever EON want him to be.

    At this rate, he doesn't have to have Blofeld's name.
    That would make me happy considering I don't really want to see Blofeld again. At least in Craig's tenure.

    Oh I do think, or part of me does anyway, that it may be better to wait to reintroduce Blofeld for Craig's successor, thus giving him a "hook" to start his tenure strong, a bit like the ghost of the Cold War for Brosnan in GE and Vesper for Craig. But then, since they now have the rights, they might be thinking that the right time is now. Simply because they can.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 4,622
    blofelds.jpg
    @murdock. Thanks for posting this! These images do resonate with what Fleming described, especially TB Blofeld, which is the image that has always lingered with me, mainly as its the original description, and was fleshed out in much detail, as posted by @ludovico.
    For that reason I've always liked Charles Gray's Blofeld. I think he was closest to the original TB description, maybe even moreso when cast as Henderson in YOLT.
    The Blofeld book-resemblance, apparent in YOLT movie, might have been what prompted Eon to cast him as Ernst in DAF. Just guessing here though.
    What I liked about Gray is that he was of imposing size with sqare jaw. I did find him quite menacing in DAF, behind the glib and articulate exterior, but also somewhat mad, echoing the Ernst we meet in Fleming's YOLT, to some degree.
    I do think Elba could play Blofeld, as the movie character is a chameleon. He could be re-cast from film to film with radically different looks. This isn't terribly inconsistent with Fleming, as Fleming evolved the character too-Ernst is completely nuts when we reconnect in YOLT,but still very dangerous.
    Eon, IMO, has cinematic license to up the ante and be rather flexible with what they ultimately do with Ernst from movie to movie. And yes, I would like to see the cat return
    I think casting Blofeld in the TB book image is an Eon option, but I don't think its necessarily priority for them. Just an option.
    Eon could very well go the book route, which of course would rule out Elba, but I think the real appeal for Eon, of bringing back Blofeld, would be the notion of having a recurring iconic nemesis, with added bonus of not having to keep inventing new Blofeld type supervillains with new names and backstories.
    New characters could rather be introduced at leisure, within the Spectre context, as either members or rivals, but without the pressure of adding them to the pantheon of Bond supervillains, with vast organizations, big lairs etc. Blofeld himself can serve as the malleable supervillain archetype when needed.
    As I've said before, many of the grand villains that Eon has concocted post TMWTGG, have been Blofeld derivatives anyway. Most could have been the latest incarnation of Ernst villainy.
    ie crazed Blofeld wakes up one morning and decides he wants to live under the sea and blow up the rest of the world, or dominate the world from outer space, or carry on like Zorin or Graves, or run a media empire and threaten world war.
    Backstories and motivations would have needed changing- Zorin's for example - but otherwise Blofeld directing the Silicon Valley scheme was easily done.

    ===Prediction; I boldly predict that Waltz will be revealed as Blofeld - that B24 might serve as a new-timeline Blofeld origins story - that the reveal will come towards the end of the film, setting up Waltz for a return engagement.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 11,119
    timmer wrote: »
    blofelds.jpg
    @murdock. Thanks for posting this! These images do resonate with what Fleming described, especially TB Blofeld, which is the image that has always lingered with me, mainly as its the original description, and was fleshed out in much detail, as posted by @ludovico.
    For that reason I've always liked Charles Gray's Blofeld. I think he was closest to the original TB description, maybe even moreso when cast as Henderson in YOLT.
    The Blofeld book-resemblance, apparent in YOLT movie, might have been what prompted Eon to cast him as Ernst in DAF. Just guessing here though.
    What I liked about Gray is that he was of imposing size with sqare jaw. I did find him quite menacing in DAF, behind the glib and articulate exterior, but also somewhat mad, echoing the Ernst we meet in Fleming's YOLT, to some degree.
    I do think Elba could play Blofeld, as the movie character is a chameleon. He could be re-cast from film to film with radically different looks. This isn't terribly inconsistent with Fleming, as Fleming evolved the character too-Ernst is completely nuts when we reconnect in YOLT,but still very dangerous.
    Eon, IMO, has cinematic license to up the ante and be rather flexible with what they ultimately do with Ernst from movie to movie. And yes, I would like to see the cat return
    I think casting Blofeld in the TB book image is an Eon option, but I don't think its necessarily priority for them. Just an option.
    Eon could very well go the book route, which of course would rule out Elba, but I think the real appeal for Eon, of bringing back Blofeld, would be the notion of having a recurring iconic nemesis, with added bonus of not having to keep inventing new Blofeld type supervillains with new names and backstories.
    New characters could rather be introduced at leisure, within the Spectre context, as either members or rivals, but without the pressure of adding them to the pantheon of Bond supervillains, with vast organizations, big lairs etc. Blofeld himself can serve as the malleable supervillain archetype when needed.
    As I've said before, many of the grand villains that Eon has concocted post TMWTGG, have been Blofeld derivatives anyway. Most could have been the latest incarnation of Ernst villainy.
    ie crazed Blofeld wakes up one morning and decides he wants to live under the sea and blow up the rest of the world, or dominate the world from outer space, or carry on like Zorin or Graves, or run a media empire and threaten world war.
    Backstories and motivations would have needed changing- Zorin's for example - but otherwise Blofeld directing the Silicon Valley scheme was easily done.

    ===Prediction; I boldly predict that Waltz will be revealed as Blofeld - that B24 might serve as a new-timeline Blofeld origins story - that the reveal will come towards the end of the film, setting up Waltz for a return engagement.

    What could Christoph Waltz casting mean for Blofeld and S.P.E.C.T.R.E.?
    In all honesty @timmer, I do not think Waltz is going to play Blofeld. We already know his role will be rather large and will be complex of nature. It can be an ally, a villain or a bit of both. I personally think Waltz will play a character not that much different from Silva. An ex-ally who turned into a villain. But this time around I actually think we will see the process on screen, of the ally turning into a villain.

    Waltz could play a covert information source for MI6. A source that leaks important cables to MI6, but that slowly, during the movie, sells this information to a "new brotherhood" of somekind. A bit like Dryden did in "Casino Royale". Then at the end of Bond 24 Waltz has turned into a full operative of this new "brotherhood", being then revealed as S.P.E.C.T.R.E. He then is the new "Nr.2". And is even more complex than that old Nr.2, Emilio Largo. A bit of a Kronsteen/Largo-combo.

    Furthermore, at the end of the movie, we will have our first cameo of the Nr.1 operative. A man, who could very well be Blofeld. I think that's how Waltz role will turn out to be. Not the actual Blofeld, but at least an ally that during the movie will evolve into the villain, and a very important operative of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.

    And I personally hope Blofeld will be introduced carefully. A cameo for Bond 24 with the option for Blofeld being more of the lead villain in Bond 25 is IMO way more interesting and exciting. It means that there's also an actor casted for Bond 24 which role will stay top secret until Bond 24 premieres. Having said all this, I do think S.P.E.C.T.R.E (or QUANTUM) will have a more dominant role in Bond 24.

  • Posts: 15,106
    Of the three above images, only the TB one gives a relatively correct idea about Blofeld.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Of the three above images, only the TB one gives a relatively correct idea about Blofeld.

    I'd agree. The other two don't look anything like the way he's described in the respective novels, not in my opinion.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 4,622
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Of the three above images, only the TB one gives a relatively correct idea about Blofeld.

    I'd agree. The other two don't look anything like the way he's described in the respective novels, not in my opinion.
    But its the same face in all three pictures. Blofeld did alter his look circa OHMSS and YOLT, IIRC.
    I would have to consult the novels in question for descriptions though to compare the images with what is described.

    @gustavgraves
    We are both predicting much the same thing regarding Spectre and Blofeld in B24 - ie that there will be a Spectre, Blofeld, reveal by film's end.
    I am sticking with my prediction that Waltz will be revealed as Blofeld by film's end.

    A nice touch I think, would be to do the reveal by showing him to suddenly have an affection for a white persian cat at end of film. That would clinch his indentity without having to spell it out.
    If they did that, I would be skipping out of the theatre. Such a move would be a familiar Mendes touch too, similar to what we saw at the end of SF, with Fiennes as new Bernard-Lee-looking M, the new old-office and the casual MP reveal.

  • edited November 2014 Posts: 15,106
    The issue with the second one looks too much like a common white haired man, without the vampiric look of Blofeld in OHMSS. The thurd one is a variation of the second. Not very threatening either.

    I am not certain that Christoph Waltz will play Blofeld, so far only rumors and linking him to the name. I see some possibilities, but difficult to back it up for the moment. Blofeld and SPECTRE in TB were mercenaries, basically, something that fits the friend or foe comment about the character. We also know Blofeld has used aliases in the novels. That he may have some Germanic blood.

    I will repeat my hypothesis: IF Waltz plays a character with in his name a word that could mean blue, then he will be revealed as Blofeld. If he plays an unnamed character for the most part of the movie (a bit like Silva), then he will most likely be Blofeld.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Just please spell out for me the connection to "blue" and Blofeld's name - from the novels?
  • Posts: 15,106
    Bleuville, literally blue town. Or in the film Bleuchamp, blue field.
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    Okay, let's not speculate too much about Blofeld here. I'm all for his return, but there's very little evidence he might. Logan said a while ago that Bond should always fight Blofeld. When everything is said, that's pretty much it. And they have the rights to the character again. Yes, Waltz fits the bill. But so would have Wiseman, Lee, Krabbe and many more, who did not play Blofeld.

    I think it's better to say: "There's little evidence Blofeld and SPECTRE might return. But there's also little evidence that Blofeld and SPECTRE will not return at all."

    In any case, the last part of my sentence is already questionable, as there are quite a few developments that suggest the brand names "Blofeld" and "SPECTRE" will be re-awakened. To put these developments into open ended questions:

    --> Why did MGM and Danjaq put so much effort in re-acquiring the rights to "Blofeld" and "SPECTRE"?
    (article: http://www.mi6-hq.com/news/index.php?itemid=11158&t=mi6&s=news )

    --> Why did Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson openly said back in November 2012 that they believed "Blofeld" and "SPECTRE" now can be used?
    quote from Ms Broccoli: "No, I think it's still out there, but we just don't refer to it in this particular film." Tantalisingly, Wilson reveals that they have the rights to bring back Blofeld and SPECTRE, cornerstones of big-screen Bond that vanished in legal battles for long decades. Broccoli: "We believe we can use them."
    (article/image: http://www.the007dossier.com/007dossier/Magazines/sfx-2012-11-nov/sfx-2012-11-nov-050-050.jpg )

    So actually @Ludovico, there's at least some evidence that shows EON Productions do not want to put "Blofeld" and "SPECTRE" to the graveyards.
  • Posts: 15,106
    You cannot prove a negative. The default position would be right now that he will not show up for Bond 24. However tempted I am to hope. I would say however that it does seem more likely that Blofeld will show up eventually now that the rights are secured.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Based on what @graves quoted above, it does seem that Eon is strongly considering returning the man with the cat, and I do want that cat. The cat is a Blofeld-film signature.
    Cat got full play in all 6 films, in which we saw the iconic Ernst.
    I remember being real excited when I first saw the FYEO trailers in theatre.
    The cat was heavily featured. The trailer seemed to signal that Blofeld was back, in the new FYEO Bond adventure....the excitment...the anticipation.. and then we got what we got.
    Downer.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    timmer wrote: »
    Based on what @graves quoted above, it does seem that Eon is strongly considering returning the man with the cat

    Would that be the quote about Quantum dressed as if it were about SPECTRE?
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 4,622
    this quote:

    Why did Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson openly said back in November 2012 that they believed "Blofeld" and "SPECTRE" now can be used?
    quote from Ms Broccoli: "No, I think it's still out there, but we just don't refer to it in this particular film." Tantalisingly, Wilson reveals that they have the rights to bring back Blofeld and SPECTRE, cornerstones of big-screen Bond that vanished in legal battles for long decades. Broccoli: "We believe we can use them." (article/image: http://www.the007dossier.com/007dossier/Magazines/sfx-2012-11-nov/sfx-2012-11-nov-050-050.jpg )
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    timmer wrote: »
    this quote:

    Why did Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson openly said back in November 2012 that they believed "Blofeld" and "SPECTRE" now can be used?
    quote from Ms Broccoli: "No, I think it's still out there, but we just don't refer to it in this particular film." Tantalisingly, Wilson reveals that they have the rights to bring back Blofeld and SPECTRE, cornerstones of big-screen Bond that vanished in legal battles for long decades. Broccoli: "We believe we can use them." (article/image: http://www.the007dossier.com/007dossier/Magazines/sfx-2012-11-nov/sfx-2012-11-nov-050-050.jpg )

    She also said...

    Barbara Broccoli: I mean, we’ve talked about Blofeld over the years. The thing is Blofeld was fantastic for the time but I think it’s about creating characters that are, villains that are more appropriate for the contemporary world. It’s more exciting for us to create somebody new.

    So, while we can all gesticulate and wank on about it, none of us really know and in all honesty it's been discussed to death. Let's see what happens.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    this quote:

    Why did Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson openly said back in November 2012 that they believed "Blofeld" and "SPECTRE" now can be used?
    quote from Ms Broccoli: "No, I think it's still out there, but we just don't refer to it in this particular film." Tantalisingly, Wilson reveals that they have the rights to bring back Blofeld and SPECTRE, cornerstones of big-screen Bond that vanished in legal battles for long decades. Broccoli: "We believe we can use them." (article/image: http://www.the007dossier.com/007dossier/Magazines/sfx-2012-11-nov/sfx-2012-11-nov-050-050.jpg )

    She also said...

    Barbara Broccoli: I mean, we’ve talked about Blofeld over the years. The thing is Blofeld was fantastic for the time but I think it’s about creating characters that are, villains that are more appropriate for the contemporary world. It’s more exciting for us to create somebody new.

    So, while we can all gesticulate and wank on about it, none of us really know and in all honesty it's been discussed to death. Let's see what happens.

    Exactly. We can merely post some information we have got now... In any case, "wanking" is what happens on forums a lot. Especially with geeks like you and me :-).
  • Posts: 15,106
    Maybe Broccoli and Wilson have different opinions about Blofeld, simple as that. I disagree with her about Blofeld not being contemporary: done well he can be very contemporary. In fact, the two first novels in which he appears have Blofeld organize two very contemporary schemes, while YOLT is so out of this world it is pretty much timeless (and admittedly far more difficult to adapt).
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Maybe Broccoli and Wilson have different opinions about Blofeld, simple as that. I disagree with her about Blofeld not being contemporary: done well he can be very contemporary. In fact, the two first novels in which he appears have Blofeld organize two very contemporary schemes, while YOLT is so out of this world it is pretty much timeless (and admittedly far more difficult to adapt).

    She speaks sense with that quote in my opinion. Whether he can, and I'm sure he can, be done in contemporary fashion, I would imagine Barbara is keen to explore new territory and I can't say that is a bad thing. I'm all for creating new icons, rather than reinventing/resurrecting old ones. It's in the interest of the legacy.
  • RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Maybe Broccoli and Wilson have different opinions about Blofeld, simple as that. I disagree with her about Blofeld not being contemporary: done well he can be very contemporary. In fact, the two first novels in which he appears have Blofeld organize two very contemporary schemes, while YOLT is so out of this world it is pretty much timeless (and admittedly far more difficult to adapt).

    She speaks sense with that quote in my opinion. Whether he can, and I'm sure he can, be done in contemporary fashion, I would imagine Barbara is keen to explore new territory and I can't say that is a bad thing. I'm all for creating new icons, rather than reinventing/resurrecting old ones. It's in the interest of the legacy.

    Then something must have gone wrong during the past three Bond films.

    If you say "it's in the interest of the legacy", then I would like to add that writing/acting/producing good Bond films, regardless of introducing new characters or re-invent existing character's, is in the interest of the legacy. But then again, we are not exactly discussing in here what's good for the Bond legacy.
  • Posts: 15,106
    I am all for exploring new territories and inventing new threats, but as I said before, on this thread and others, there are worse things than to go back to Fleming. And there is inventing in reinventing. Fleming himself did not write in a vacuum. He was following a literary tradition.
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