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Pro's and Cons of each Bond Movie

RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
edited February 2017 in Bond Movies Posts: 984
Pretty much as the title suggests. Pick a Bond film of your choosing that you feel good, bad or indifferent to and list the pro's and cons. Should make for some interesting discussions.

I will start with...

A View To A Kill:

Pro's

Roger Moore: Gives a great, slightly darker portrayal.

John Barry's super soundtrack

Zorin: Christopher Walken, need I say more.

Mayday: Very underrated character and performance.

Great "final fight" with Zorin atop the Golden Gate.

Patrick Macnee!

Cons

Roger Moore: He is also in the Pro's, but is clearly a film too old at this point.

Tanya Roberts and the Stacey character full stop.

Too much time spent in one city.

The ridiculous Beach Boys music being used in the PTS.

The caricature German accent used by Mortner.

The rather geriatric fight Bond and Tibbet have with the henchmen in the underground factory.

The plot being a basic rehash if Goldfinger.

Comments

  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    Tomorrow Never Dies:

    Pros
    Brosnan: let's be honest, he keeps this film together.

    Michelle Yeoh is a memorable/worthy Bond girl.

    Arnold's score- music shifts accordingly with several locations and it's fantastic

    Locations are used to great effect.

    Some very quotable lines.

    Some intricate set-pieces.

    Cons
    Carver is a weak villain.

    Hamburg scenes are too long (sans car chase)

    Script (for obvious reasons)

    Stealth Boat idea wasn't used well.

    Editing too quick during PTS.

    Bond's car (BMW)
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Interesting.

    I always quite liked Carver as a villain
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    I don't mind the actor (Pryce) at all. It's just that Carver is always too sure of himself whenever he meets Bond -and there's no reason he should- thus he comes across as slightly stupid.

    I also prefer villains that aren't afraid to throw a punch when their plans go south.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    MrKissKissBangBang wrote: »
    BondAficionado wrote: »
    I don't mind the actor (Pryce) at all. It's just that Carver is always too sure of himself whenever he meets Bond -and there's no reason he should-

    Because he's a narcissist? Confidence hasn't eluded the best Bond villains - Dr. No, Red Grant, Blofeld - they believe in their plan, hence them being 'too sure of' themselves.


    BondAficionado wrote: »
    Tomorrow Never Dies:

    Cons
    Carver is a weak villain.

    Hamburg scenes are too long (sans car chase)

    Script (for obvious reasons)

    Stealth Boat idea wasn't used well.

    Editing too quick during PTS.

    Bond's car (BMW)

    Carver's great - in concept and execution.

    Hamburg scenes are perhaps the best part of the film - sleek, tight, pure Bondian goodness.

    With all the production problems for the film, the script still manages to be superior than anything made since (save for Skyfall).

    How would you have used a stealth boat?

    First time I've heard this 'con'. You seen a little film called QOS?

    How is Bond's car a con? Because it doesn't look as nice as other Bond cars? He's a banker - perfectly suits his cover at the party.


    1) Respectfully disagree on Carver.

    2) That was a very small problem I have with the film.

    3) Nope. Definitely worse than TWINE's script. Hell, they even got Apted wife to (thankfully) rewrite the M's/Elektra dialogue/arc. The film requires at least 2 viewings to even fully appreciate what's going on with all the nuances. I am not saying that TWINE is perfectly written but surely -from the plot alone- you can tell which was better written. Next up is CR which has a relatively simple plot but the dialogue is fluid and sharp. All the fat is cut off and no lines come off as cliché or corny, which is a big feat for them.

    4) Explain how they hid that boat during the daytime? Even at night the Migs would've spotted it instantly, especially after the missile launch.

    5) I only noticed it recently. It basically gets ahead of the action and makes it hard to focus on what's going on. If it weren't for the repetitive missile shots and close-ups of M and the admiral, then it would be akin to QoS. It's still an exciting PTS but they clearly edited this film in chronological order. It shows.

    6) I never said it didn't suit his cover. It just looks terrible. This is all subjective of course, so you're entitled to like the look of the BMW.

  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    edited March 2017 Posts: 1,890
    What dialogue did she supposedly "cut out"? As far as I'm concerned, she did a good job co-writing the movie. Although she must of pissed off P+W a bit!

    That airport scene alone puts TND/TWINE to utter shame. The action is hyper-realistic for a Bond film and you also have Arnold's 12 minute score, which elevates the tension when Bond is trying everything he's got to stop that tanker. One man, one mission.

    Vesper's suicide scene is definitely over the top (I love the book's ending more) but it's a modern portrayal of the white knight (Bond) entering the villains castle and saving the princess (Vesper). However in a sick twist, the princess dies and the white knight's conscience is brought back to reality. Rather neat.

    Re the TND PTS: Watch it again and come back to me.
    And don't get me wrong, I still enjoy it for what it is.

    Pros and Cons are allowed to be extremely biased and subjective so I don't really understand what you're going on about....
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Thunderball

    Pros:

    Connery- seriously the greatest Bond performance of the series. He is at his absolute swaggering best in this film, he literally acts like he owns the world. Also when he hands Fiona the flip-flops when she asks for something to wear is one of the funniest moments of the series.

    Fiona- The best femme fatale in the whole series.

    The climax-Superb final fight with Largo and his cronies after the Disco Volante has seperated.

    Cons:

    PTS- Quality fight scene with Bouvard is almost ruined by poor sped up editing.

    Underwater scenes- You know what I mean, the seemingly never ending underwater battle..

    Domino- Smoking hot, but as wooden as a Bond girl has ever been.

    Largo- Maybe I am being a bit harsh here, but sandwiched between Goldfinger and Blofeld, Largo does seem somewhat forgettable.

  • deucelowdeucelow
    Posts: 40
    For Your Eyes Only

    Pros

    PTS - I suppose could be labelled a con as it contradicts canon, but it grabs your attention.

    Moore - He's probably at his peak here. "No head for heights" "Send them to the funeral".
    Kicking a car off a cliff gave him a ruthlessness not really seen in many of his other films.

    Ski Chase - Brilliant

    Humour - Restrained enough for my taste whilst having lashings of it - the man with the drink, the ski class falling over during the chase, the hockey killers ending up in the hockey goal. A film that ends with PM Thatcher talking to a parrot can't be accused of being too serious, but we're spared the more egregious stuff.

    Girls - Many and stunning.

    Car - The Lotus is the most under rated Bond car in the series.


    Cons

    Villainy - If ever a Bond movie was in search of a decent villain it's this one. The dinner with Kristatos should have fizzled with dramatic tension; instead it falls flat. We're never intimidated by he or his goons in the least.

    The score - title track aside, this is an awful film score. Just dreadful, and it has aged terribly.

    Ending - a bit of a mess where Bond lets everyone else do the wet work basically.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    deucelow wrote: »
    For Your Eyes Only

    Pros

    PTS - I suppose could be labelled a con as it contradicts canon, but it grabs your attention.

    Moore - He's probably at his peak here. "No head for heights" "Send them to the funeral".
    Kicking a car off a cliff gave him a ruthlessness not really seen in many of his other films.

    Ski Chase - Brilliant

    Humour - Restrained enough for my taste whilst having lashings of it - the man with the drink, the ski class falling over during the chase, the hockey killers ending up in the hockey goal. A film that ends with PM Thatcher talking to a parrot can't be accused of being too serious, but we're spared the more egregious stuff.

    Girls - Many and stunning.

    Car - The Lotus is the most under rated Bond car in the series.


    Cons

    Villainy - If ever a Bond movie was in search of a decent villain it's this one. The dinner with Kristatos should have fizzled with dramatic tension; instead it falls flat. We're never intimidated by he or his goons in the least.

    The score - title track aside, this is an awful film score. Just dreadful, and it has aged terribly.

    Ending - a bit of a mess where Bond lets everyone else do the wet work basically.

    Agreed expect I rather do like the villains and how it turns out that Columbo isn't bad and he's a pretty cool character
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    MrKissKissBangBang wrote: »
    Kristatos is perfect for FYEO. Great back story and the Moore-Glover-Topol dynamic adds a touch of class to this old-school espionage tale.

    Moore had a great array of villains - ranging from the megalomaniacs (Stromberg, Drax, Zorin), to the smugglers (Kananga, Kamal Khan), a double agent (Kristatos) and of course, the man with the golden gun.

    Absolutely, especially if you keep in mind that Kristatos is revealed to be the main villain quite late in the film so it was a good idea to make him a down to earth villain. Same applies to the henchman. I really like Locque as an understated and calm but successfull assassin.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    @deucelow

    I take the Conti score over Serra, Norman, Hamlisch, Kamen, Newman and all Arnold's scores anyday.

    There are wonderfull tracks on the soundtrack and it is one of the few that is actually able to combine country specific (Greek) elements with Bondian sounds. The Gun barrel's score is probably the best of the whole franchise. Another great one is the submarine track.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Personally I find FYEO the most depressing Bond film to watch,which I think is down to the score...I don't know if that's just me who feels that way though.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    edited March 2017 Posts: 6,844
    Not sure about depressing, but FYEO is one of the most tonally imbalanced Bond films, penduluming between the serious and the ridiculous like crazy. "Imbalance" is probably a good description for Conti's score, too. Some highs ("Submarine," "Ski...Shoot...Jump," "Runaway") and some lows (the wacky 80s music accompanying the PTS and the Citröen chase). When Conti was on, Conti was on, but when he was off, he was off. I'm not going to say FYEO needed Barry as badly as TSWLM did—the main theme was good—but I wouldn't put Conti in the top 5 Bond composers either.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    GBF wrote: »
    @deucelow

    I take the Conti score over Serra, Norman, Hamlisch, Kamen, Newman and all Arnold's scores anyday.
    There's a controversial thread for that type of bold statement.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    VERY controversial !!
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    BondAficionado wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    @deucelow

    I take the Conti score over Serra, Norman, Hamlisch, Kamen, Newman and all Arnold's scores anyday.
    There's a controversial thread for that type of bold statement.

    Well I think discussions are always controversial :-) And we can't put any topic in the "controversial thread"

    But I am aware of that, however, I guess that whereas there are many Conti haters out here, there are also quite many Conti supporters... I remember him ending up higher in the "composer elimination game" than some others.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    I guess that's true.

    Also, if anyone likes somebody other than Barry = controversial *o*
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    BondAficionado wrote: »
    I guess that's true.

    Also, if anyone likes somebody other than Barry = controversial *o*

    Everybody on here likes me !!

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Barry (the real one :-)) will always be the best Bond composer. I actually like all of his works, from the more tradition scores of the 60s to the more modern approaches in the 80s. After him it becomes really difficult. I guess I would give the second place to Martin's score for LALD and then Conti's work would be 3rd. The thing is, some of Conti's tracks are really dated and unbondian. However, there are also some of my all time favourite Bond tracks. I already mentioned the submarine track.... But there is the St Cyril and the Cortina track as well as the romatic stuff with the wonderfull use of the FYEO melody.

    David Arnold's scores are all solid but there is hardly any track by him I find to be very emotional, energetic or just memorable. I watched TWINE recently. And while I always enjoy the boat chase, I find the score a bit boring and wished it had much more power. There is also hardly any other melody in the film that I remember so very well after the film....
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Any of the below is a good start for discussing these topics:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2473/name-your-favorite-bond-moments-for-each-actor

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1668/best-moments-in-your-least-favorite-bond-

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2233/what-do-you-consider-the-direst-moment-in-a-bond-film

    A reminder to all our new members to search existing threads before creating new ones. The best way to do this is on Google by typing what you want to search for followed by mi6 community.
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