CLOSED

1104105107109110164

Comments

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I asked @chrisisall to do the same in the hopes of starting a discussion, and because I'm genuinely interested in where he stands. So what happened? He chose to ignore me, either because he's too afraid to be honest or because he has nothing of any substance to offer (which would explain his tiresome all-caps trolling).
    WHAT??? ;)
    Sorry, I had to go to bed last night and then work in the morning, so I didn't see your question until just now.
    I think the Obama admin was doing an okay job, and I saw no reason to radically change anything. YES, we need border security, but terrorizing little children as a negative incentive is truly the way of the Nazi(lite), and a wall is plainly just ridiculous as well as a waste of resources.
    And has been stated, deportation was at a high back then.
    Now, crops are rotting. Children are scarred for life. I can't take all this winning.
  • Posts: 12,466
    @CommanderRoss

    As much as I dislike Trump and his administration, I don’t think it’s appropriate to directly and seriously compare them to the Nazis. The Nazis tortured and killed people in massive numbers. Yes, it’s despicable how Trump feels about separating families (and I don’t support it at all), but do consider while two wrongs don’t make a right he feels that way about people who are illegally coming in. I don’t want to have a debate about immigration or anything, I’m just pointing out that there is a reason he feels justified in doing such a nasty act.

    I stand by my original arguments and feelings, though I respect your stance and understand why you feel this way about the topic. If you’re being fair, you’d have to turn down a LOT more politicians out there for dinners if you are turning away Sanders based on “evil behaviour.” That line is still often subjective, but I could potentially use it against almost any politician ever based on at least one known act from them.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    FoxRox wrote: »
    @CommanderRoss

    As much as I dislike Trump and his administration, I don’t think it’s appropriate to directly and seriously compare them to the Nazis. The Nazis tortured and killed people in massive numbers. Yes, it’s despicable how Trump feels about separating families (and I don’t support it at all), but do consider while two wrongs don’t make a right he feels that way about people who are illegally coming in. I don’t want to have a debate about immigration or anything, I’m just pointing out that there is a reason he feels justified in doing such a nasty act.

    I stand by my original arguments and feelings, though I respect your stance and understand why you feel this way about the topic. If you’re being fair, you’d have to turn down a LOT more politicians out there for dinners if you are turning away Sanders based on “evil behaviour.” That line is still often subjective, but I could potentially use it against almost any politician ever based on at least one known act from them.

    And that's why I suggest following the international laws and standards to make the difference. I agree that Trump & co shouldn't as yet be compared to the Nazis as the worst thing Trump & co have done isn't as bad as the worst the Nazís did. Noting however that thy did use the same techniques for the same purpose: to terrorise (sorry: 'discourage') those you go after seperate them from their children. But again, neither 'governments' are unique there, there are far more who did this (noteably mostly dictatorships).
    The thing is, for international human rights standards this is a crime. No way around it. I have worked for, and even made rules for an organisation, which I oppose thoroughly. Still, as you say, beeing a professional sometimes forces you to do something. But that isnt limitless. Our military i.e. obviously have to follow orders, until they themselves consider these irrisponsible. Two have been in court for not followingan order in a hazardous situation before (the Bosnian war) and were aquitted by the court, saying they were right and the order madness (but then in more judicianal language).

    all in all, it isn't an easy subject, and to me the reasoning of the owner was fair.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 12,466
    Politicians bend laws and make awful mistakes or purposeful bad choices all the time though is part of what I was getting at. Depending on your subjective lines for which of them is better than others, you would potentially lose a ton of business all of a sudden if you felt they were all morally wrong at least once in their careers. If you kick one bad apple out you should be fair and do the same to the rest who deserve it, right? Singling out Sanders is what most bothers me.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    The queen accepts Trump? Is this Brexit hitting even more lows or is the Queen just curious?
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,032
    FoxRox wrote: »
    @CommanderRoss

    As much as I dislike Trump and his administration, I don’t think it’s appropriate to directly and seriously compare them to the Nazis. The Nazis tortured and killed people in massive numbers. ...

    @FoxRox, I can see your point. As a German, I perceive the problem of Nazi comparisons mainly as trivialising the actual crimes by comparing them to something far more harmless today, and there is no question that what the Trump Administration has done SO FAR, does not rival the Nazis' genocide or whatever at all.

    Still it must be allowed to say that those certain autocratic, even if democratically elected, rulers like Trump, Erdogan, Orban, Jaruzelski (or his stooges), Netanjahu etc. are using the exactly same methods that the Nazis used BEFORE the latter went all out on putting Jews, socialsis and other opposition politicians, homosexuals etc., and that this extends to today's minorities like refugees, LGBTQ people, "gypsies" etc. It must also be allowed to point out that the actions of the Hungarian, Polish and several other governments/administrations have a whiff of "Gleichschaltung" - the "synchronization" of media to conform with the official government interpretation of events. Trump's constant invocation of "fake news" is of the same kind.

    I therefore think it is perfectly justified to compare these activities to what the Nazis did INITIALLY, while being also adamant about it NOT being comparable to what the Nazis did ULTIMATELY (industrial killing of millions of people etc.) - YET. But let the people decide and think about it for the time being...until it gets any closer to what happened in the 30s. And let's stop those politicians before they can do more "comparable" things.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, Trump will visit the UK. The protests will be well worth watching and should prove enjoyable, quite interesting.

    Supreme Court Justice Kennedy is retiring. That is huge and extremely dangerous news for our country. The other news (as just listed here) is mostly very good:
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    SCJ Armageddon is afoot...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    McConnell will likely push for that new SCJ nomination ASAP, despite saying that it shouldn't be a focus in an election year. Funny how that works!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    And yes, there are plenty of arguments to support stonewalling any nominee Trump puts forth- and this reasoning mentioned here is also valid.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    We are screwed. Welcome to the United Corporation of America.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited June 2018 Posts: 12,480
    We are not yet defeated. You know that in your heart, Chris.

    We get the government we fight for. Our history has had immensely difficult fights before (just one example: civil rights). We can get through this and we will.

    We need to throw their own stonewalling back in their faces.



    Anyway, please call your representatives/senators/every person you know in Washington, D.C. Do it today or tomorrow at the latest. AND please vote in November.

    I know things can be rigged against us, manipulated, all the vile things we are hearing about that are coming to the surface. Giving up is not an option really, is it? I do believe we get the government we fight for.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Well, we will all be busy.
    So in July, Trump will go to the U.K. I am looking forward to the photos.

    Info from the Telegraph:
    For the mass protest in London the provisional plans are:
    14:00 Assemble outside the BBC building in Portland Place
    March to Trafalgar Square
    17:00 - 19:00 Rally in Trafalgar Square

    One campaigner is even attempting to to float a helium-filled blimp of Trump as a baby during the visit. A protest which is likely to bruise his fragile ego.
    *****
    So yes, this:
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited June 2018 Posts: 4,585
    FoxRox wrote: »
    @CommanderRoss

    As much as I dislike Trump and his administration, I don’t think it’s appropriate to directly and seriously compare them to the Nazis. The Nazis tortured and killed people in massive numbers. Yes, it’s despicable how Trump feels about separating families (and I don’t support it at all), but do consider while two wrongs don’t make a right he feels that way about people who are illegally coming in. I don’t want to have a debate about immigration or anything, I’m just pointing out that there is a reason he feels justified in doing such a nasty act.

    I stand by my original arguments and feelings, though I respect your stance and understand why you feel this way about the topic. If you’re being fair, you’d have to turn down a LOT more politicians out there for dinners if you are turning away Sanders based on “evil behaviour.” That line is still often subjective, but I could potentially use it against almost any politician ever based on at least one known act from them.

    The comparison is actually quite relevant.

    A president's use of lies, inaccuracies, and innuendo to publicly scapegoat a group of people, based on race, has never happened before in U.S. history. We have a white supremacist as President. It's that simple. And he pushes the same buttons that Hitler pressed to stir public hatred of a group, based on ethnicity/race/religious preference.

    Trump's loyal band of followers are a carbon copy of the early Nazis: led to believe that all their problems (of which they actually have none) can be blamed on Mexicans, blacks, and Muslims. If we could just get rid of them all, we could live happily ever after.

    Sound familiar?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    TripAces wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    @CommanderRoss

    As much as I dislike Trump and his administration, I don’t think it’s appropriate to directly and seriously compare them to the Nazis. The Nazis tortured and killed people in massive numbers. Yes, it’s despicable how Trump feels about separating families (and I don’t support it at all), but do consider while two wrongs don’t make a right he feels that way about people who are illegally coming in. I don’t want to have a debate about immigration or anything, I’m just pointing out that there is a reason he feels justified in doing such a nasty act.

    I stand by my original arguments and feelings, though I respect your stance and understand why you feel this way about the topic. If you’re being fair, you’d have to turn down a LOT more politicians out there for dinners if you are turning away Sanders based on “evil behaviour.” That line is still often subjective, but I could potentially use it against almost any politician ever based on at least one known act from them.

    The comparison is actually quite relevant.

    A president's use of lies, inaccuracies, and innuendo to publicly scapegoat a group of people, based on race, has never happened before in U.S. history. We have a white supremacist as President. It's that simple. And he pushes the same buttons that Hitler pressed to stir public hatred of a group, based on ethnicity/race/religious preference.

    Trump's loyal band of followers are a carbon copy of the early Nazis: led to believe that all their problems (of which they actually have none) can be blamed on Mexicans, blacks, and Muslims. If we could just get rid of them all, we could live happily ever after.

    Sound familiar?

    Yes, it's the beginning of a new age of oppression... unless we stop it.
  • Posts: 628
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I asked @chrisisall to do the same in the hopes of starting a discussion, and because I'm genuinely interested in where he stands. So what happened? He chose to ignore me, either because he's too afraid to be honest or because he has nothing of any substance to offer (which would explain his tiresome all-caps trolling).
    WHAT??? ;)
    Sorry, I had to go to bed last night and then work in the morning, so I didn't see your question until just now.
    I think the Obama admin was doing an okay job, and I saw no reason to radically change anything. YES, we need border security, but terrorizing little children as a negative incentive is truly the way of the Nazi(lite), and a wall is plainly just ridiculous as well as a waste of resources.
    And has been stated, deportation was at a high back then.
    Now, crops are rotting. Children are scarred for life. I can't take all this winning.

    Fair enough, and no hard feelings here. I'll admit I was being obnoxious. Thanks for responding.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I asked @chrisisall to do the same in the hopes of starting a discussion, and because I'm genuinely interested in where he stands. So what happened? He chose to ignore me, either because he's too afraid to be honest or because he has nothing of any substance to offer (which would explain his tiresome all-caps trolling).
    WHAT??? ;)
    Sorry, I had to go to bed last night and then work in the morning, so I didn't see your question until just now.
    I think the Obama admin was doing an okay job, and I saw no reason to radically change anything. YES, we need border security, but terrorizing little children as a negative incentive is truly the way of the Nazi(lite), and a wall is plainly just ridiculous as well as a waste of resources.
    And has been stated, deportation was at a high back then.
    Now, crops are rotting. Children are scarred for life. I can't take all this winning.

    Fair enough, and no hard feelings here. I'll admit I was being obnoxious. Thanks for responding.

    Thanks for being cool here. ;)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    For those of you who want to see (baby) Trump follow his Orange father on a world tour, you can donate here:
    https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/trump-baby/updates/

    Why the Queen has accepted Trump now is beyond me, but perhaps with waiting so long she just hopes he won't make it after all.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I don’t think the Queen has any say in these matters
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 19,339
    I don't think Trumps administration should be compared to Hitler and the Nazis...lets put things in perspective here .
    Why the Queen has accepted Trump now is beyond me, but perhaps with waiting so long she just hopes he won't make it after all.

    The Queen isn't a politician and has to appear neutral unless things are seriously wrong,then she can step in.

    If a head of state of one of our allies requests to see her on British soil,she hardly,if ever,refuses.

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I don't think Trumps administration should be compared to Hitler and the Nazis...lets put things in perspective here .
    Why the Queen has accepted Trump now is beyond me, but perhaps with waiting so long she just hopes he won't make it after all.

    The Queen isn't a politician and has to appear neutral unless things are seriously wrong,then she can step in.

    If a head of state of one of our allies requests to see her on British soil,she hardly,if ever,refuses.

    Well, I'm not quite sure if 'allies' is the word to use here. As far as I can see Trump has made friends with some of the worlds'biggest dictators, and done very little to advance 'The West'. Or you would call starting trade wars a friendly act? (oh, welcome to Europe Harley Davidson).

    At least North Korea will denuclearize now. Oh.... wait......

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/27/politics/north-korea-infrastructure-improvements-nuclear-facility/index.html

    Nobel Prize, here he comes!

  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I don't think Trumps administration should be compared to Hitler and the Nazis...lets put things in perspective here .
    Why the Queen has accepted Trump now is beyond me, but perhaps with waiting so long she just hopes he won't make it after all.

    The Queen isn't a politician and has to appear neutral unless things are seriously wrong,then she can step in.

    If a head of state of one of our allies requests to see her on British soil,she hardly,if ever,refuses.

    Well, I'm not quite sure if 'allies' is the word to use here. As far as I can see Trump has made friends with some of the worlds'biggest dictators, and done very little to advance 'The West'. Or you would call starting trade wars a friendly act? (oh, welcome to Europe Harley Davidson).

    At least North Korea will denuclearize now. Oh.... wait......

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/27/politics/north-korea-infrastructure-improvements-nuclear-facility/index.html

    Nobel Prize, here he comes!

    God,surely this cant happen !! (I know,it can can't it ...)

  • edited June 2018 Posts: 12,466
    TripAces wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    @CommanderRoss

    As much as I dislike Trump and his administration, I don’t think it’s appropriate to directly and seriously compare them to the Nazis. The Nazis tortured and killed people in massive numbers. Yes, it’s despicable how Trump feels about separating families (and I don’t support it at all), but do consider while two wrongs don’t make a right he feels that way about people who are illegally coming in. I don’t want to have a debate about immigration or anything, I’m just pointing out that there is a reason he feels justified in doing such a nasty act.

    I stand by my original arguments and feelings, though I respect your stance and understand why you feel this way about the topic. If you’re being fair, you’d have to turn down a LOT more politicians out there for dinners if you are turning away Sanders based on “evil behaviour.” That line is still often subjective, but I could potentially use it against almost any politician ever based on at least one known act from them.

    The comparison is actually quite relevant.

    A president's use of lies, inaccuracies, and innuendo to publicly scapegoat a group of people, based on race, has never happened before in U.S. history. We have a white supremacist as President. It's that simple. And he pushes the same buttons that Hitler pressed to stir public hatred of a group, based on ethnicity/race/religious preference.

    Trump's loyal band of followers are a carbon copy of the early Nazis: led to believe that all their problems (of which they actually have none) can be blamed on Mexicans, blacks, and Muslims. If we could just get rid of them all, we could live happily ever after.

    Sound familiar?

    Sorry - I can’t see it as fair unless Trump and his followers actually committed the same horrendous crimes as the Nazis - especially in such large number (acknowledging the few seriously crazy Trump supporters who actually attack minority groups). Sure, there are some fair similarities, but considering the different governments/systems, we know it won’t become as horrible as it was then.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Give him time - he’s only been in the job 5 minutes!

    Hitler had 13 years.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Well the system would still need to be changed a ton in 13 years for that to even be a remote possibility. I don’t doubt Trump is evil and would do worse things given dictatorship, but I think we will be safe from that. If not, for whatever reason, then it’s time for the people to have a revolution obviously.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    @FoxRox and that is exactly what Hitler did, change the system. He didn't ever have the majority vote, but by throwing Germany into chaos he set the stage for a coup. And I wouldn't be surprised Trump would call out an emergency and use that to solidify his power.

    Funny though I found some very good advice on FOxNwews, for all of you in the USA:

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/06/28/want-to-defeat-lazy-corrupt-and-out-touch-politicians-in-both-parties-heres-what-will-really-work.html

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited June 2018 Posts: 12,480
  • Posts: 4,044
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don’t think the Queen has any say in these matters

    What do you think they will talk about?
This discussion has been closed.