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Gotta love those 'Antifa' sorts...
Walk around with signs saying "Smash Facism"
Want to shut down a speakers freedom of speech because they disagree with it....
You may remember that around the middle of the last century the whole world went to war over the idea of smashing fascism. Fascism lost. It's not a question of freedom of speech; one of the central tenets of fascism is that they have the right to rule everything and everyone, and anyone they don't like is going to be either killed or put into a camp. Humanity as a whole decided that this is not a philosophy that is up for debate; it is an abhorrent creed that is not to be tolerated. Those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it. I prefer not to have another world war if we can help it; I'm not putting on any black masks and engaging in violence on the streets, but really, learn from history: Fascism is evil and you do civilization no favors by inventing reasons to accept it.
I think you need to smell what you shovelin'. ;)
Your questions are nonsensical.
Talking of killing people is a threat, not an opinion. Thought someone of your high intelligence would know that.
Antifa protesting against conservative speakers (Ben Shapiro one example) just because they don't like what they say is simple facism.
Freedom of speech is the foundation of western culture.
Trying to stop people expressing their views just because you don't agree with them makes you a facist.
And wearing silly masks don't help either...
@LeonardPine, you're welcome to criticize the letter bomber any ol' time...
Free Speech is another one of those vexing concepts. Recently an on air television host lost their job as a result of that idea. It is to be hoped that the statement was not meant to be harmful, but sadly in the age of PC honesty is easily and often unappreciated. When public speaking is used to incite violence it isn’t accepted, even members of congress who can say pretty much anything in Chamber, can’t say things that would be treason, or incite riotous public behavior. Sadly the on air host should have been conscious of how certain activities were used to mock cultural differences, and prevent minorities from employment. Unfortunately those ideas arose in the United States during a time when books and films like Birth of a Nation were being widely distributed. That particular fiction was written by a man who had his home and farm burned and destroyed during the Civil War, and who based his depiction of Black Africans running wild on the riots that took place in Haiti. Haiti was ruled by a French dictator who despised Africans, so when they rioted they resorted to the of same type violence that was perpetrated on them. None of that was mentioned in the book or the film that followed, but that publication and others like it increased fear and paranoia in a poorly informed and poorly educated American population, and fueled several generations of denigrating social rejection and isolation to keep the majority of Black Americans from rising above the level of austere poverty.
Nazi fascism, White Supremacy, and bigotry, all row the same boat and are despicable practices in the modern world (there’s not much point in judging actions or beliefs from hundreds of years ago, by standards of today), but as long as they don’t incite violence they have the right to voice their opinion (although it might cost them their employment). In the words of my uncle O’Brian who landed on the Normandy beaches and fought all the way to Germany, “I fought the Nazi’s because I love the Constitution and this country, and I have no regrets because the Nazi’s were dead wrong with what they did, but in this country, even they have the right’s granted under the Constitution, as long as they aren’t trying to incite people to commit violence.” The current administration in the United States isn’t what I like to think of as positive American leadership, but they aren’t Nazi’s, as is often said, and sadly the President prefers “showmanship” to “statesmanship”. If you want an idea of what went on during the rise of Nazi Fascism in Europe try reading The Nightmare Years 1930-1940 by William Shirer, he was a reporter who lived and reported on what he witnessed in Germany and Austria during that time. Some may remember him from his book The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, but for an inside view of Nazi Fascism, The Nightmare Years, which is written from his actual time witnessing and reporting on what he saw while he was still allowed to be in Germany, is much better.
Neither America, or Americans, or the United States Constitution are perfect, but for a country of nearly four hundred million people it functions fairly well. Perhaps instead of pulling down statues they should erect statues depicting slavery in all of its’ true horror. One for every Southern General who kept slaves, and then the history would be more complete. Let’s not forget Lincoln in that as well. The legend is that he freed his slaves. Actual history as recorded by his, son and his wife as well as others shows that the slaves were ‘let go’ after two years when the farm failed because Lincoln was always away practicing law all of the time, and unable to purchase the needed supplies for farming (something neither his wife or the slaves could do). Since the farm was in Missouri where the laws stated that slaves had no rights, the minute they walked off of the property they were considered runaway’s and subject to prosecution as such (so much for letting them go). History doesn’t record what happened to them afterward, I’ll leave it to you to guess.
He also threatened several people on social media. I'm glad they have arrested him. DNA evidence.
And more mailed or delivered bombs are being found still; unclear if directly connected to this same suspect.
As a Dutchman I'm quite aware of what the Nazi's did here in Europe, and how it started. You say your president prefers 'showmanship'over 'statemanship', but he's also endorsed violence against the media (literally). He's also singled out 'Mexicans' as 'murderers and rapists'. That, afak, is racism in the way it is prohibitied in your constitution. It does remind us of fascist leaders of the past whom also supported violence against their opponents. This president, thus, has crossed that border your grandfather spoke of. Ask yourself: is this the 'free America' he fought for?
The problem here - in my opinion - is that leaders in government and other public organizations are stoking the flames of violence, chaos, and confusion. Starting with the president of the United States. Beyond sad to see this happening, but that is true. And when leaders are divisive, purposely causing confusion (conspiracy theories pushed, lies about statistics, lies about what is happening in general), not even trying to appear balanced or neutral ... and on top of that genuinely approving violence from U.S. citizens and others (either outright or barely nuanced) - it is a major issue, a very serious concern.
We have not had this in our history before, not to this extent - but we are dealing with it now and struggling to deal with it in the best ways possible for our country. But we must face this and not shrug it off or be complacent.
To ME, support a Nazi, you ARE a Nazi supporter. Support fascist ideas, you ARE a supporter of fascism.
But this simple logic escapes some, sadly.
Also... Sorry Leonard, we have a right of protest in this country. If you don't like it, move to Saudi Arabia. And if a bigot doesn't like being protested, then maybe, instead of sending goons (either directly or by egging on those nuttiest ones in the fan base) to attack the protesters, he should seek a more favourable venue, of which there are an almost endless number.
Where did I mention fascism was a good thing?
I was pointing out the irony of Antifa's anti-fascism stance. As in wearing masks, intimidation and stopping any speaker's they don't agree with. As in they are more fascist than the people they claim to protest about.
Perhaps the irony of my joke about them went over your head as you constructed your strawman argument to try and make it seem I condoned fascism.
Is this related to my post about Antifa?
What are you getting at @BeatlesSansEarmuffs exactly?
The goons calling themselves antifa - or simply those being labeled that by others - are in a minority, are not representative of the left, or liberal left ... but do represent the extreme left which matches the extreme right. Both extremist sides push violence and chaos. Anarchists are not the majority of the left; not at all.
Fascism is using force to silence free speech.
Protesting is lawful.
Attacking protesters is fascism.
Protesters fighting back is self defense, even if they came prepared for (or expecting) a physical confrontation.
My father fought 4 long years in WWII (Army), at Guadalcanal and Iwo Jima. He was at Pearl Harbor when it was bombed. He voted Republican. He passed away a long time ago, but I do think of him. He and I did not agree on some things in politics and yet ... I know he would be appalled at Trump.
So when I think, since you brought this scenario up, would my dad approve of somebody having freedom of speech to say any terrible thing they wanted to, in our country, after he fought so hard in WWII? I think he would want speech to not be curtailed - it is a precious right, our freedom of speech. But I think he would also say that hate speech and/or inciting violence comes with a price. He spoke about that enough when he was alive. Threatening violence and hate speech needs to be condemned, with some consequences. But freedom to say anything - yes, it is our right of freedom of speech. I have no doubt my father would be sickened by the president's words and would not consider him worthy of his position. Trump's barely veiled and sometimes outright endorsement of physical violence is truly unAmerican and disgusting.
Our leaders, and most especially the president of our country, should not be promoting violence, confusion, conspiracies, false stories, slander, or chaos. But he is. To have an American president act and speak like this is new, but we have to deal with it. It is not in any way acceptable.
Antifa use 'force to silence free speech' so therefore they are fascists by their very actions. So I didn't fail did I?
'Self defence' what a crock. All Antifa can do is shout people down, intimidate and occasionally resort to violence, while hiding their faces. Good old plain discussion they can't compete in because they don't have the intelligence.
Anyone who sticks up for those thugs I wouldn't want to know.
I don't stand up for any thugs, @LeonardPine, just to be clear.
Just a Beatles reference.
Was I replying to you? Read the quote and the post properly mate.
You shall be enlightened soon, Dr Doom must always have the last word.
It s Trump s fault.
Yeah suppose that's sensible on this thread.
Looks like some members on here would love to label someone a bigot/racist/white supremacist/fascist (Delete where applicable) on someone who dared oppose their moral superiority.