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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Yes, of course that is the case in any open society. As I said, look to Israel for clues as to how to deal with this. They have been under constant threat of attack for decades. It has hardened the mindset of the residents and everyone is always on the lookout for suspicious activity. Those who are the targets become the eyes and ears to assist law enforcement. Not perfect, but better than what we have today.

    I sincerely don't think that Israel is a model any country should be looking to follow.
    I'm not saying it should be the model. I'm saying that this is a country that has been dealing with this, and (unfortunately perhaps) their security posture is one practical solution to this problem.

    Don't expect that society's views will not harden on account of continued attacks. Look to this very thread to see the seeds of it.

    What you predict is entirely possible and people advocating a heavy handed militarised and fear based response to any atrocity have always existed.

    In the 1970s and 80s when US-funded Irish terrorists were regularly attacking mainland Britain there were plenty of people advocating that Irish people (of which were then and are still today many in the UK) should be stopped and searched on a regular basis.

    Fortunately the British government took a multi-pronged and more nuanced approach. We didn't ultimately sideline or single out the entire Irish community for punishment, even though there were many IRA sympathisers amongst them.

    Ultimately we were bigger than that and we protected our freedoms and values against their bombs and hate. Not by doing what they wanted but by staying strong.

    Israel is a total mess and really quite an unpleasant society. God help us if we end up like that.
    The UK has historically been able to retain its open and liberal minded approach in the face of adversity. As a nation, they have thought through the issues rather than reacting with emotion. I have always respected that. Even after 7/7 when there were calls in the US for more draconian measures, the UK took a measured approach. That fortitude & calm mindset will be needed more than ever going forward.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Yes But the government response this week was not so good. The article I just posted is a good synopsis of what's been done wrong by Theresa May.

    We really need to treat these people like the lowlife criminals they are and not elevate their pathetic crimes to something they are not.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Looks like armed police are now going to be on trains here ,randomly.....my country is very very pissed off now,its all changing.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Which country is that? Austria?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    Yes But the government response this week was not so good. The article I just posted is a good synopsis of what's been done wrong by Theresa May.

    We really need to treat these people like the lowlife criminals they are and not elevate their pathetic crimes to something they are not.
    Agreed. It's never easy when in the middle of an election campaign.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Getafix wrote: »
    Which country is that? Austria?

    We all love a comedian......are u seriously taking the piss out of me ?

  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes I guess that was the reason for the timing. The PM has unfortunately fed their vanity and love of publicity.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Getafix wrote: »
    Yes I guess that was the reason for the timing. The PM has unfortunately fed their vanity and love of publicity.

    So you are taking the piss out of my comment ?
  • Posts: 11,425
    No I'm sincerely unsure where you live. The reference to kicking Kara off the Ferris wheel was only clue available.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Born in London,lived in London and still work in London.
    (The Kara bit,is just a fantasy phase to kick her up the arse ;) )
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Let's just stop and think for a moment , just wonder how it must feel to be an ordinary Member of the Muslim Comunity in Great Britain at this time , How long will it be Iwonder before members of The British Public At large decide that the time has arrived when they have had enough of turning the other cheek and start to retaliate will we then start to see attacks of the kind that happend to those poor souls in Manchester directed against Muslims we all here hope and pray that this won't happen however in the country at large there are sections of society that don't have the reasoning of many of us here and would I believe be prepared to launch against the Muslims in misguided retaliation if and when this happens God help the British People
    Manchester and the Slaughter of those innocent Children and Woman & Men will come to be seen as a turning point unless we as a whole support the police and security services and allow them to get on with the job in hand and stop whinging that we don't appreciate our police officers on the street or in our shopping centres or on our trains carrying Arms for our and their protection the days of the British Bobby being numbered and sent out in pairs to prevent them getting lost are well and truly over.


  • Posts: 19,339
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Let's just stop and think for a moment , just wonder how it must feel to be an ordinary Member of the Muslim Comunity in Great Britain at this time , How long will it be Iwonder before members of The British Public At large decide that the time has arrived when they have had enough of turning the other cheek and start to retaliate will we then start to see attacks of the kind that happend to those poor souls in Manchester directed against Muslims we all here hope and pray that this won't happen however in the country at large there are sections of society that don't have the reasoning of many of us here and would I believe be prepared to launch against the Muslims in misguided retaliation if and when this happens God help the British People
    Manchester and the Slaughter of those innocent Children and Woman & Men will come to be seen as a turning point unless we as a whole support the police and security services and allow them to get on with the job in hand and stop whinging that we don't appreciate our police officers on the street or in our shopping centres or on our trains carrying Arms for our and their protection the days of the British Bobby being numbered and sent out in pairs to prevent them getting lost are well and truly over.


    Wow,you did all that without even 1 full stop or paragraph.

  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Yes my fault I wrote it last night after a very long hot day ,saved it as a draft and came back to edit the post this morning, and picked the IPad up and must of hit the post comment button.
    Anyway hope it didn't spoil your reading too much Bazzer.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 4,615
    The Uk's experience with the IRA is a double edged sword IMHO.
    On the one hand, we are experienced in dealing with these kind of attacks and are good at taking them in our stride.
    On the other hand, they may have lulled us into a false sense of security as the IRA could and were eventually negotiated with to find some common ground. Plus not defending them but it is interesting to remember, when they bombed the Arndale Centre, they phoned a warning in so that the place could be evacuated. A strange sort of mercy that will should never expect from Islamic terrorists.

    I also think that we have become in some ways, a softer and more sensitive society. (Diana's funeral is perhaps a truning point), this has good and bad sides but one of the bad sides is that terrorist events seem to have a much bigger impact on us than they did perhaps 30 years ago (making us an easier target in terms of the impact). The IRA bombing of Brighton and Thatcher's speech the next day has come to represent the perfect example of "keep calm and carry on". Its interesting to think how our current gov would react under the same circumstances. It's hard to imagine.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Good points.

    Yes IRA and Islamo nutters are very different but the parallels are still worth drawing.

    And I totally agree that we're much more prone to hyperventilating these days. Pretty much Anything gets the right wing tabloids and the twitterers knickers in a twist these days.

    Any one would have thought we'd never been through two world wars.

    A bomb goes off and otherwise sensible people like @TheWizardOfIce call for martial law and knocking off suspects in back alleys.

    Where's the stick upper lip and back bone gone?

    Some pathetic loser murders some teenage girls and we roll over and change our entire value system and way of life over night? Are we really that weak and pathetic?

    People seriously need to get a grip and think what this is about.

    Firstly the Islamo losers pose a much lesser threat to us and our way of life than Hitler did 80 odd years ago. Our response to this pathetic bunch of wankers should be proportional, and not compromise our way of life, values and customs.

    Secondly, don't buy into the bullshit they want to spread that this is a clash of civilisations. They represent no one.

  • edited May 2017 Posts: 4,615
    To be fair,. I think there is a big chunk of society that feels the same but "keeping calm and carrying on" creates little impact whilst the combined noise created by the media, politicians and the "panickers" creates an image of a country in fear.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Well said. Yes indeed - the "panickers" is a good name for them. Hysterical overreaction we can leave to the Arab street thanks very much. Meanwhile I like to think the UK will deal with this shower of losers with the disdain and low key but firm response they deserve. Mop em up. Incarcerate. Infiltrate. Repeat.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited May 2017 Posts: 1,053
    Whilst respecting his privacy, I can report that the person I mentioned earlier, who was caught up in the Manchester attack, remains in hospital with multiple serious (but not life threatening) injuries.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Good to hear @stag hopefully on his way to a full recovery.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 1,708
    Supposedly the Libyan guy did it as revenge cuz he suspected his buddy was a victim of hate crime.

    If anyone should have reason to ban muslims it should be Brussels since terrorists have made it to their European capital.
  • Posts: 4,615
    I had the chance to watch the recent Corbyn/Neil interview last night and Corbyn made the very sensible point that we should be increasing community policing in an attempt to gain a better understanding or what is happening.

    Is it not common sense to have a specially trained officer allocated to every Mosque in the UK in an attempt to form a more trusting relationship and gain better intel? May makes serious cuts into "bobbies on the beat" but calls out the Paras to police the streets. A total lack of a long term stategy.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    Haven't you figured out the real reason why the army has been deployed? Fair play to our troops, but their role in the current IS situation is largely confined to mounting a visual presence. Please remember that the troops will have been briefed about how to react in the event of a terrorist incident taking place within their AOO, but when it comes down to anti terror response, the police are the best people to deal with this matter. Over time, I guess that certain sections of the military will receive training specific to the role they have assumed but - for now at least - any shoot no shoot scenario would be best handled by specialist police.

    BTW, I was gladdened to see one post which correctly pointed out the real problem of policing large scale events, or indeed providing and maintaining security in general throughout our towns and cities.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/28/members-of-manchester-bomber-network-may-still-be-at-large-amber-rudd

    Finally. It really isn't rocket science. Although 'temporary' exclusion order sounds typically gutless. Shredding of their passport and a lifetime ban from ever entering the country again would seem the logical step to take.

  • Posts: 11,425
    Sounds a bit legalistic for your liking!

    Surely taking em out back and shooting them would be more cost effective.
  • Posts: 4,615
    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2017/05/28/tories-plan-new-commission-to-tackle-extremism-and-promote-britains-values/

    Perfect example of the political class failing to deal with root causes and tinkering around the edge. ISIS must be quivering in their boots:
    "Oh my God! A new Commision? That's it lads, the game's over"
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited May 2017 Posts: 9,117
    Getafix wrote: »
    Sounds a bit legalistic for your liking!

    Surely taking em out back and shooting them would be more cost effective.

    Yeah I'm more than happy with that. Pretty gormless to just deport them back to Syria when they fetch up in Dover trying to get back in after 3 months training.

    Excellent suggestion. Good to see you finally getting on board old chap.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Maybe the west can stop supporting these guys abroad in the first place?
  • Posts: 11,425
    May be west can stop spreading anarchy and chaos
This discussion has been closed.