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To answer your question:
The thought of watching anyone "casually strolling around with a shooting weapon" is completely unthinkable in my country. The most you can hope for is getting a permission to buy and own a weapon. To be armed however is illegal in any sircumstance unless you are activily hunting game or practicing in a shooting club. In both cases there are strict regulations for the transportation of said guns. For hunting only rifles are allowed. The only legal reason to own a gun is for specific use in sports in shooting clubs. To get permission to buy your own gun you will have to pass a security course, and be a member of the club for six months with a certain ammount of documented activity inside the club during that period. Only then can the club give you a "recommendation" to buy a private gun and then only for a specific sports genre. Then the police will evaluatw the reccomendation, your records, and have the last say. From then on you will need to document a steady activity in the given sport genre inside the club. Unless your gun will be confiscated. Exact regulations will defer in each country, but this is how it works in the civilized world...
Now can you answer my question? What is your alternative explanation for the outrageously disproportionat rate of gun related violense, homocides and mass shootings in the US?
Assault weapons are the only products manufactured for the sole purpose of killing humans. So before we get into the debate of "well, knives kill too" and "trucks kill too" we have to keep in mind that anything, including a broken wine bottle, can be used as a weapon. Difference is, they are not made for that purpose.
Today's assault rifles (so cleverly called "sporting rifles") and their artillery are designed to tear through bone and rip apart flesh. I would like the NRA, the Rugger company, and the Republicans in Congress who are betrothed to the gun lobby, to be forced to view the medical examiner's photos of the two children killed in that church. An 18-month-old and 5-year-old. I want them to look at the damage inflicted upon those children's bodies and be forced to come to grips with the fact that we allow a product to be designed and manufactured to do exactly what it did to these children.
End rant.
Where do you live if I may ask?
I personally think it’s just American culture. I was lucky enough to travel all over the USA for Basketball. I have seen different areas good and bad. The problem is that there are bad people out there who have access to guns.
Typically if you do some research this is what you’ll notice in a murder or shooting in the USA.
Whites: Typically have some sort of mental illness or they are on a drug.
Mexican/African Americans: It’s normally gang related. Drugs are normally involved. It’s almost always in a bad area. Inner city/hood.
Immigrants: It’s terrorism or religious reasons.
Solution? Clean up the inner cities and the hoods. A majority of those areas are run by drug lords, prostitution and gangs. The government needs to be more involved in those areas.
Overall gun buyers must take a mental exam to make sure they are mentally capable of owning a firearm. People need to be aware if the buyer has a history of violence, arrests/convictions, are they on any medication or have any previous mental health issues?
Immigrants. I don’t necessarily think we need a travel ban. I do believe anyone coming in from hostile areas should be heavily screened and checked out.
Overall the government needs to do a better job heavily screening anyone who is a potential threat. I cannot believe the fbi and law enforcement had advanced knowledge of most mass shooters... Sandy hook shooter hacked the fbi computer systems and was visited by the fbi!! It was just released by the government. There’s also a lot more to it. I have also noticed that a lot of shooters will take guns from someone else. Maybe if you have a felon living with you or someone with a mental health issue you should also be banned from owning a gun? There’s a lot that can be done to fix crime and murder.
It’s easier to get a gun then get into college. Although many people believe buying a gun is no different than buying smokes or booze.
CR when you mean a gun as a farmer I do not mind really, you were the one bragging about a friend who owned 50 guns. What is he expecting?- An invasion of Livestock?
In which of these 2 population categories would you put Charlize Theron in?
Exactly. Acces to guns. Not only guns but assault rifles.
The rest of the world also has criminals and mentaly unstable people. However, if you limit the existence of guns you drastically limit their posed threat. This is not a thesis. It is documented.
To make sure only "good people" have guns is a hopeless task. Who are to judge who are good and bad? How can you know? How can you be certain someone are incapable of ever comitting a violent crime? People can be bad without a criminal record. People can be mentaly unstable or develop mental instability without a diagnose or medical record. People with the best of intentions can be led to comitt violence, and people have comitted outrageous actions with the best of intentions. The last killer was a former member of the US Air Force. In other words he has previously fought in what most americans will tell you is in the purpose of 'good'.
The solutions is to limit the sirculation of shooting weapons. The rest of the world understood it long ago.
I am from Norway btw.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.thedenverchannel.com/2391640120/texas-shooting-devin-kelley-bought-2-guns-was-charged-with-beating-and-dragging-dog-in-colorado.html
Id say animal cruelty and assaulting his baby and wife qualify?
How is this legally allowed wow?!
https://www.academy.com/shop/browse/shooting/firearms/modern-sporting-rifles--1
SPORTING rifles?!?!?!?
Assault weapons from an academy..
I’m a gun advocate but damn.
They should make a tv show with this guy. I want to see him drive a car, iron his clothes , climb a ladder etc.
Children shooting guns is 'pretty common'. In African warzones and South American favelas maybe.
'Just casually strolling around'. As you do.
I trust you've never seen the scene in the bank from Bowling For Columbine when they are giving them away for free then?
As opposed to all those other mass shootings where guns fall into the hands of the right people.
Starting to really flail now. Your argument a few pages back was that people need guns (including your octogenarian aunt) to protect themselves. Now you're falling back on the only people that might legitimately use a gun as a useful tool. But a) theres a hell of a lot of people out there who arent farmers who are packing and b) if youre a farmer a shotgun and a rifle are more than ample to shoot vermin - you dont need a hoard of 50 guns or an assault rifle.
Finally a nugget of sanity. Perhaps making it much, much harder for these bad people to get access to guns might be a start?
Who knew it was so simple? It's amazing they haven't sorted it yet when the problems are as cut and dried as this.
You only need one question on the exam paper: 'Do you want to own a gun?' Answer 'Yes' and you fail.
Except its not the immigrants shooting people - its your own citizens. The clown who nearly mowed me down in NYC last week only had an air gun as he was probably too brown and muslim to pass the stringent gun owning criteria to get himself properly tooled.
Wow indeed. Thats what we've been saying for the last million posts. Good to see you finally coming round to a bit of common sense.
The way I see it there are two problems:
1) Not enough priests are armed. It is their responsibility to protect their community. We need to make sure all priests are armed with assault guns by law. In the name of God!
2) They were not praying enough in church. That is why they need our prayers now. Lets send our thoughts and prayers everyone!
Free Walther with every Bible for close protection? Perhaps a little OTT?
Nah. The NRA approves. That's what matters at the end of the day.
Lovely stuff chaps.
Although Bond way ahead of you @patb as in GF Fleming tells us how he conceals his PPK in a book entitled 'The Bible Designed to be Read as Literature' for the best of both worlds for the parishioner who wants to stay pious and protected.
You have to laugh at these religious nutters. They've got God on their side so you'd think that would be all the protection they'd need but rather than have a batphone to the top man so they call in an airstrike of lightning bolts whenever a nutter rocks into town they prefer to carry their own arms to deal with it. Suggests praying might be utterly useless?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/07/as-texas-town-mourns-details-emerge-on-gunmans-methodical-tactics-in-church-massacre/
Absolutely baffling.
8-X
If gun shops weren't as ubiquitous as McDonald's on every block then perhaps he might have had a harder time getting hold of one?
All because the military courts failed to register him as a felon.
That seems to be a major error in the system,as this is escalating all the time now.
yep, it isn't because you can't destinguish those who are about to go and kill people from those who aren't because everyone wants to look like a cowboy, it's because of the military courts!!!
You have previously mentioned that you understand assault rifles shouldn't be in the public domain. Well guess what, that's called 'gun control'. Having more control over your guns.
The thing is, in most countries people aren't expected to 'need to protect' themselves, that's what the police is for. And thus the police's task is a lot easier: anyone with a gun out in the street is a suspect. Because you don't need it there. On the farm? Perhaps, but a rifle should be enough out there. You like shooting? do it on a range, on a club, fine. But not when you're mentally ill.
Does this prevent shootings completely? No. But the numbers are just not on your side. The USA has one of the highest killing statistics per 100.000 people, not of Western countries, but of the world. Only beeing outclassed by south American- and failed states.
You're talking about 'bad people', as if those were born like that. The thing is, that's just not the case. most shootings have a social background. People who are angry because they lost their job, were cheated on, etc .etc. And that could happen to anyone.
The amazing thing is you still think it went 'well' because 'more people could've died' but the gunman was shot by passers-by. It took 26, I repeat, 26 people before he was stopped. 26!!!!! And why? Because Americans still think they live in the 1800's, and instead of paying a little more taxes so they can have police in every town they want to go all cowboy. There's no country as obsessed with killing as Americans.
But hell, these 26 were all baptists, and those are staunch supporters of as-liberal gun laws so they can 'defend' themselves from people like their neighbours who had a bad day.
I'm an American and I give you this...
https://i.imgur.com/dhMeAzK.gif?noredirect
Love how the stock answer that keeps being wheeled out is 'we need guns because how else can you stop someone with a gun' as if people rampaging round with guns is a problem that has no solution so if you don't arm yourself it's inevitable you will get shot.
Rather than just escalate the arms race maybe think about taking measures to stop anybody getting hold of guns in the first place?
It is a massive, diverse country that has so many sub-cultures within it. Having recently been in San Francisco you could be excused for thinking you weren't in Trump's America at all but closer to a European metropolis. However visiting somewhere like Missouri or Kansas as I've done before and it feels like a different country.
It's the festishization of guns, the obsessive 'the government are trying to take my guns away' that is really little more than a paranoid addiction. There are plenty of other countries around the world where people own guns and where mass shootings occur but I can't think of anywhere else where the guns themselves are elevated to a near religious status. This leads into why it is near impossible to add further regulation anymore because the lawmakers will be met with such hostility that re-election for them would unthinkable.
Since you are all about statistics you’d know that a majority of all crime in America are committed by African American males. The rap and gang culture is a lot higher in America than any country in the world. Okay mass shootings typically are carried out by a white male sure.
I wish there were cops in every town in Texas but that’s not how it works. Is that my problem or the people who died?
Statistically most mass shootings end in under 15 minutes. Nearest police were 15-20 minutes away. They say the gun man fire 450 bullets. I’d imagine the police were called fast. It was over by the time they could arrive..
Yeah the gunman was also reloading and about to go back in the church but was stopped. Guess how many people survived? Twenty! So yes if it weren’t for that innocent bystander with a gun 46 people would be dead instead of 26.
He saved lives. I don’t understand what you expect people in a town in the middle of nowhere to do? No police in their town. A mass shooting happens? Nearest cop is 20 minutes away. Hmm.
Oh yeah just wait it out though right.. okay.