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  • Posts: 7,653
    @CommanderRoss I do enjoy a good laugh when the so called superior democratic society turns out to be a very different beastie. We all knew the US grew from WWII in a smal dictator themselves always aligning themselves with corrupt governments which they kept in place for their own economic reasons. Mow they have outdone themselves in a a democracy run by cooperations whose owners essentially believe they have the keys to the kingdom and they are not wrong. And they are also kept in place by the lunacy of the christian faith, and they play them for all its worth with the military industrial complex.
    The EU corrupt, sure but a shedload less than anything the US is able too. The Trump gambled on the UK brexit being the demise of this economic superpower. We have corruption as always power does corrupt but I would not trade for the sheer lunacy of the current Republican government who is hellbent to enslave their worker population in low-paid jobs as allowed by their paymasters.

    The US is in a shithole they dug themselves and I have got no illusions that our European elite is watching this with interest. The UK elite is also doing an exercise in powergrabbing by misrepresenting the real will of its population, they want change but in voting for brexit dug their own hole in which the UK elite will take a dump. They have no clue how they will trade and be an economic force as the EU will do all in its might to take any role in the EU away from them including the banking as they have a different scenario in their minds as the politicians had in mind. the UK will lose its import harbors to Europe as well because it is cheaper to trade straight with the EU the not go through a second country. My question about BREXIT is what is their economic foundation after the BREXIT has concluded, I have so far not heard any grand scenario what that could be only what it will not be. Whule the UK government is working hard to conclude a treaty to get out they have not shown any plans after that. Most probably because they do not have a effing clue. Which is sad because it all started with a god old kicking against the elite. (the funny story when I lived and worked in the UK this politician told me he loved the EU, they could blame them for all the problems and take credit for their work, win win. Of course they did not want to leave the EU ;))

    Is the Netherlands better off, I am sure we are even if the liberal party that currently runs the show also shows tendencies to pay of the big cooperations for a slice of the pie. They are also hellbent on deconstructing our social society in favor of gains and profit. Umless one of their mummies of daddy ends up in a healthcare home in that case something needs to be done.

    I guess in all our politics we can see the slimy creature called business man or politician who is essentially there to line his pockets sooner than think of long term plans which could minimize the impact we have on our planet before we drown ourselves in water or muck. Or in the case of the US blow itself up or shoot each other.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2017 Posts: 17,798
    SaintMark wrote: »
    We all knew the US grew from WWII into a small dictator themselves always aligning themselves with corrupt governments which they kept in place for their own economic reasons. Now they have outdone themselves in a a democracy run by corporations whose owners essentially believe they have the keys to the kingdom and they are not wrong. And they are also kept in place by the lunacy of the christian faith, and they play them for all its worth with the military industrial complex.
    Hey wait a minute bub! As an American I.... uhh... cannot dispute that at all, actually.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    @SaintMark allthough your assessment of the US politics isn't too far off, the EU story is different in my opinion.
    Brexit aside (that's upt to the Brits now) the EU is not as coherent as you imply it is. It's exactly the centralisation of power (and the increasing corruption there) that has so many worried. At the same time we have an engine (Germany) with a lot of loose parts roting away (economically speaking) who can't regain their strength because of the Euro and Germany's industrial power. In other words: Germany (and The Netherlands, austria, etc.) keeps Italy (and Spain, Greece, etc.) poor. This will not endure, so we too will have to understand we are digging our own graves and if we're not careful the Americans will point back in a couple of years shouting 'so who's the idiot now'.

    Hence I recommend some restraint ;-)
  • Posts: 19,339
    Anyone know more info about the Seattle train carriage that fell onto a highway ?
    People have died unfortunately..a strange accident.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
  • Posts: 12,526
    chrisisall wrote: »

    Awful accident, thought's and prayers to all those affected.
  • Posts: 7,653
    @SaintMark allthough your assessment of the US politics isn't too far off, the EU story is different in my opinion.
    Brexit aside (that's upt to the Brits now) the EU is not as coherent as you imply it is. It's exactly the centralisation of power (and the increasing corruption there) that has so many worried. At the same time we have an engine (Germany) with a lot of loose parts roting away (economically speaking) who can't regain their strength because of the Euro and Germany's industrial power. In other words: Germany (and The Netherlands, austria, etc.) keeps Italy (and Spain, Greece, etc.) poor. This will not endure, so we too will have to understand we are digging our own graves and if we're not careful the Americans will point back in a couple of years shouting 'so who's the idiot now'.

    Hence I recommend some restraint ;-)

    I find keeping the poor countries poor bit a tad excessive, they are really in need to get their government expenditure under control which was mostly out of balance.

    You cannot keep spending so much and getting back so little. Greece was a tax haven for the rich (where did I hear that also) who now that there is tax to be paid left their own country. Italy has got a problem inside their borders where there is a large divide between the richer parts and the poorer parts and they seem to have some disconnect in their own country where the richer parts are opposed to helping the poorer parts on their feet. Spain also had to much public spending and should invest more in their own industry and infra structure based on real economic basis. They have got plenty of possibilities and seem not to be able to start up their own economy and rely too much on tourism and such. The EU really tries to improve the economic situations, sure the Greek situation has really gone a tad overboard and as usual the average person pays the build kinda build up by the elite who buggered of as soon a the question of payment came up. Overal big cooperations should be made to pay for their profits and the people leading them should be made to pay fair taxes and wages. That is what the EU should be doing. Google, Microsoft, Apple and such should be made to stop seeking tax havens. (of which he Netherlands seems to be one as well)

    Based upon the current economic expenditure and foreseeable actions by the US government led by the self-acclaimed financial guru they will end up in shedload of trouble if they do not quickly look in their crumbling infra structure. Which will undoubtedly become a hefty bill which probably will have to be paid by the citizen in taxation and not by the big cooperations. So I am not sure if the US will be a cooperation run government with a massive workforce to be exploited.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    @SaintMark it goes a bit too far here to go into details, but the gist of it is that if you have a strong economy the value of your product is high, which used to be reflected in the local currency. If you're not onto that level you get a weaker currency which lowers your debts (less worth) and makes it harder for you to borrow.

    What we have in Europe is governments (mainly in the south) with a weak economy but strong currency. Local producers can't sell their stuff (it's too expensive) so tax income is low, but borrowing is easy. So they borrow to 'kickstart the economy' which doesn't help. Reform doesn't help, because as stated before their products are not up to scratch.

    So yes, the north is keeping the south poor, plain and simple.

    @Chrisisall that's a terrible accident, if it is one. Going 80 in a 30 mile zone is too much too high. Looking foreward to the NTSB's report.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Why should I bow to the government? Why shouldn t the government bow to me?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Why should I bow to the government? Why shouldn t the government bow to me?

    v-for-vendetta_1050_591_81_s_c1.jpg
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I have no vendetta against the government, even though it wouldn t be unfair.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited December 2017 Posts: 8,255
    BwTyorAIIAAWzhC.jpg
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,792
    Olympia, WA: Train Tracks Sabotage To Stop Fracking Equipment
    By Puget Sound Anarchists - April 20, 2017
    I'm guessing this article from April is unrelated to the recent tragedy.

    That group deserve all the attention that can be directed at them until it's confirmed absolutely, however.
    One way or the other.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Olympia, WA: Train Tracks Sabotage To Stop Fracking Equipment
    By Puget Sound Anarchists - April 20, 2017
    I'm guessing this article from April is unrelated to the recent tragedy.

    That group deserve all the attention that can be directed at them until it's confirmed absolutely, however.
    One way or the other.

    The reason why the link is to an archived web page, is that it was taken down, probably by legal authorities. These people are probably under investigation.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Melbourne crash: Driver arrested after car ploughs into crowd, injuring up to 19 pedestrians .

    Fourteen people have been injured, several of them critically, after a car ploughed into a crowd in central Melbourne in what police described as a "deliberate act".

    In a terrifying incident during the pre-Christmas shopping rush, the white SUV rammed into a large number of pedestrians at high speed on the pavement outside Flinders Street railway station, one of the Australian city’s main transport hubs.

    Police said the driver and another man have been arrested after what they said they believed "was a deliberate act".
    Asked if the incident was terrorism-related, Victorian Police commander Russell Barrett said: "The motivations are unknown."

    One witness told how she heard screams before she saw "people flying everywhere" outside Flinders Street station at around 5pm local time (6am GMT) on Thursday.

    Others reported that the white Suzuki SUV, which is said to have had two men inside, appeared not to slow down before it crashed into a tram stop.
    Images from the scene showed a number of people receiving medical attention. The second arrested man is believed to have been held by police on the steps of the station.

    Media reports suggested a total of 19 people had been injured.

    Police said 14 people had been taken to hospital for treatment, including several who were described as being critically ill.
    They included a pre-school aged child with head injuries who was taken to hospital in a serious condition.

    One witness, called Sue, told Melbourne radio station 3AW that she heard screams before she saw "people flying everywhere".

    "We could hear this noise, as we looked left, we saw this white car, it just mowed everybody down," she said.
    People are flying everywhere. We heard thump, thump. People are running everywhere."

    Citing other witnesses, Sky News Australia said the white Suzuki SUV with two men inside drove into the crowd before crashing.

    Another witness, John, told ABC Radio Melbourne that he saw a "SUV coming at high speed".
    "(I) really just heard the collision with people with bags and what must be shopping trolleys - and I hope not prams," he said.

    "I've really never seen anything like this before and I haven't stopped shaking."

    Authorities evacuated surrounding buildings and have offered counselling to traumatised bystanders.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    Two more idiots ready for eternal damnation and life in prison. Only the lowest of the low attack people who cannot defend themselves. The biggest cowards in history.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    jobo wrote: »

    Agree completely with the assessment. I bloody well hate the term 'neo-liberal' as it has nothing to do with liberalism. We ended up in an extremists ideology (well, for now specifically those in the US, Russia, UK, and South America). They even managed to get this ideology rooted in the World Bank which had as it sole purpose rooting out poverty. Instead they're creating it.

    And everyone nows, we all played Monopoly at some time in our lives...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    They said that was their purpose.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 4,615
    A few weeks ago, some of us discussed how it was only a matter of time before these guys became more imaginative re their attacks.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42370025

    In that plan:

    Munir Mohammed began buying chemicals for a homemade pressure cooker bomb
    He offered himself as a "lone wolf" attacker to an IS commander communicating with him over Facebook
    He investigated making poison while working at a supermarket ready-meals factory
    Rowaida El-Hassan provided him with technical guidance as a trained pharmacist


    This guy worked at Kerry Foods. The BBC don't mention sub-brands but wiki comes up with:
    Brands include:[10]

    Low Low
    Cheestrings
    Dairygold
    Charleville
    Denny
    Richmond
    Wall's
    Mattessons
    Fire & Smoke
    Yollies
    Big Train
    Oregon Chai
    Island Oasis
    DaVinci Gourmet[11]

    You wonder if the manufacturuers have any specific guards in place for potential issues like this.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    I hope so, but considering the many times food was called back because of problems (like glass shards in pots) I think this is a rather 'intelligent' sort of attack.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    This is much more like it. Running a few pedestrians over with vans got very boring very quickly. Good to see them finally showing some creativity.

    And it would be so easy to implement as I imagine these food companies operate very lax security and staff vetting (if indeed they have any at all). Given the amount of immigrants you hear of getting zero hours contract jobs on a pittance in such areas as fruit picking and meat production it seems a very soft target.

    Although I guess 'Tesco have pulled their microwaveable chicken tikka masala off the shelves after a man died from ingesting broken glass' doesn't quite have the box office pull of mowing into to tourists outside parliament but it could have a more profound effect on people's psyche if they are scared to go to supermarkets.

    Might actually improve the nation's health as people would be encouraged to cook from scratch with raw ingredients rather than rely on processed food. Perhaps Jamie Oliver should do it and blame it on ISIS?
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 4,615
    With a incident of broken glass etc, it is an identifiable one off incident so the manufacturers can identify the batch number and keep the recall very focussed to one produect, one supply chain, one time window etc etc,

    It would be on another scale with an employee who had worked there for several months, perhaps (or with access to) several product lines, perhaps using different additives. It would have a big impact. Even if there was no proof that he had done it, could the manufactueres take the risk? and, of course, the media would have a field day.

    The new security and "lessons learnt" would have a knock on effect with higher prices at the till.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Any major food producer has x-ray scans on their products at several points through the production chain. I wouldn t worry too much about this.
  • Posts: 4,615
    X-Ray scans that detect poison?? - that was the allegation re my post 2 days ago, the guy in court was researching the mass production of poison
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I was talking about glass.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    patb wrote: »
    X-Ray scans that detect poison?? - that was the allegation re my post 2 days ago, the guy in court was researching the mass production of poison

    The guy probably had seen OHMSS too often... a member of MI6???
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    All major producers also run laboratory tests on product samples before sending them out, but of course, if you only poison a small part of the production once in a while, you could get away with it.
This discussion has been closed.