'More of a problem eliminator ' : Licence to Kill Appreciation & Discussion

13

Comments

  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    I attended a screening of LTK at the Prince Charles Cinema on Friday evening, with an intro by Alan Church, who worked on the opening titles with Maurice Binder, and some rare VHS footage of the titles being filmed.

    We learned that the sexy girl-behind-water effect was achieved with a sheet of glass, a watering-can and a paddling-pool from the Uxbridge branch of Argos, and that Timothy Dalton got spun round in an office chair to do that at-his-most-dangerous turn from the teaser trailer (I would kill to see outtakes of this).

    Seeing the film on the big screen was a brilliant experience. In particular, there are many more laughs when you watch with an audience.

    It's on again in July - do go if you can!

    289155_600.jpg
  • Posts: 7,507
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    I attended a screening of LTK at the Prince Charles Cinema on Friday evening, with an intro by Alan Church, who worked on the opening titles with Maurice Binder, and some rare VHS footage of the titles being filmed.

    We learned that the sexy girl-behind-water effect was achieved with a sheet of glass, a watering-can and a paddling-pool from the Uxbridge branch of Argos, and that Timothy Dalton got spun round in an office chair to do that at-his-most-dangerous turn from the teaser trailer (I would kill to see outtakes of this).

    Seeing the film on the big screen was a brilliant experience. In particular, there are many more laughs when you watch with an audience.

    It's on again in July - do go if you can!

    289155_600.jpg

    You lucky blighter! Saw LTK 5 times when it was originally releaseed in 1989 but would love to see it again on the big screen!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    I attended a screening of LTK at the Prince Charles Cinema on Friday evening, with an intro by Alan Church, who worked on the opening titles with Maurice Binder, and some rare VHS footage of the titles being filmed.

    We learned that the sexy girl-behind-water effect was achieved with a sheet of glass, a watering-can and a paddling-pool from the Uxbridge branch of Argos, and that Timothy Dalton got spun round in an office chair to do that at-his-most-dangerous turn from the teaser trailer (I would kill to see outtakes of this).

    Seeing the film on the big screen was a brilliant experience. In particular, there are many more laughs when you watch with an audience.

    It's on again in July - do go if you can!

    289155_600.jpg

    I bet you wont be able to see the teaser again, without thinking of T-Dalts in an office chair.

    I didn't get to see them on release, but I did get to see both TLD & LTK on the big screen back in 2015, as part of VUE Cinemas Bond double bills. I would never have imagined that i'd get to see those Bond films on the big screen.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    I didn't get to see them on release, but I did get to see both TLD & LTK on the big screen back in 2015, as part of VUE Cinemas Bond double bills. I would never have imagined that i'd get to see those Bond films on the big screen.

    Wow, I missed all those! I've seen TLD at the Prince Charles too, but as part of their Bond all-nighter, so I'd love to see it again when it's not 4am and I'm in better command of my faculties.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,139
    I’d love to see either of Dalton’s entries on the big screen though chances are pretty slim of that ever happening again here in Belgium.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Tim being spun around on an office chair ? I would LOVE to see that !!
  • edited August 2019 Posts: 676
    sanchez2.png

    The only Bond villain named Franz I'll ever need.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Milovy wrote: »
    sanchez2.png

    The only Bond villain named Franz I'll ever need.

    One of the best Bond villains EVER !!
  • Posts: 2,918
    Controversial opinion: LTK is the best-written Bond film in between OHMSS and LTK, in three ways.

    01. Bond undergoes convincing personal growth, in his realization that he can't be a lone avenger; instead he learns to accept and ask for help from other people.

    02. The action sequences are almost all integral to the plot and advance it. There are no gratuitous stunts that distract from the storyline. Instead, the action advances the story's momentum. LTK feels like a film with a genuine story, not a bunch of stunts string together.

    03. The relationship between Bond and the villain is more powerfully and convincingly portrayed than any from the Moore/Brosnan era. Bond and Sanchez duel throughout the picture in a series of strikes, parries, and counter-thrusts: capture, escape, the murder and rape of the hero's allies, the hero's manipulation of the villain into destroying his own allies, attempted murder on both sides, and finally the perfect moment of revenge, when the hero finally tells the villain why he seeks vengeance. Throughout all of this, Bond's seething hatred is weirdly balanced Sanchez's own friendship with and admiration of Bond.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I can't argue with any of these points, @Revelator. I don't find them controversial ... and I agree wholeheartedly, except...

    I'd include TLD in on the best written Bond film since OHMSS, but not for (some of) the reasons you cited.

    1/we have the most vulnerable Bond since OHMSS; vulnerable because this new Bond lives in a world that's far less certain. He's knee-deep investigating what's going on with Koskov and Pushkin, and exterior forces keep pressing him to get on with it (the murders on Gibraltar, Koskov's testimony setting up Pushkin, Koskov's "kidnapping", M's orders).
    Saunders is then killed, furthering the quagmire Bond finds himself in; he's pressed to move faster, and perhaps, more violently than he wanted. Can he trust his instincts? Can he trust Kara? Can he trust anyone?
    And even though he knows he can't trust, he does, with Kara. And he lets his guard down (she drugs him leading him straight into the lion's den)...

    2/just like your number two, I see the action as part of the story-- Gibraltar is the Inciting Incident to the story and leads us to believe there's a shadowy organization that is leaving its calling card; the "Fire Bond! Fire" sequence starting with the girl as a sniper, and ending with Jorgi's successful deflection, drives the story forwards; yes, the escape with Kara is flashy, but still involves the story: the missing man and a woman "and a cello"... and so on... the action propels the story forward...

    3/Sanchez and Bond is some of the best stuff in this franchise and TLD doesn't come close to having a villain as dynamic, and real, as what Davi brought to the screen. But what I loved about TLD and how it elevates it beyond the Moore and Brosnan films: Bond's trapped in a mystery. And through his investigative work, he unravels it until it leads straight to Koskov and Whittaker.
    Dalton-Bond was the most active Bond; no matter what was happening, he pushed forward with bull-headedness and always kept coming, in both of his films...
  • Posts: 7,507
    Revelator wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: LTK is the best-written Bond film in between OHMSS and LTK, in three ways.

    01. Bond undergoes convincing personal growth, in his realization that he can't be a lone avenger; instead he learns to accept and ask for help from other people.

    02. The action sequences are almost all integral to the plot and advance it. There are no gratuitous stunts that distract from the storyline. Instead, the action advances the story's momentum. LTK feels like a film with a genuine story, not a bunch of stunts string together.

    03. The relationship between Bond and the villain is more powerfully and convincingly portrayed than any from the Moore/Brosnan era. Bond and Sanchez duel throughout the picture in a series of strikes, parries, and counter-thrusts: capture, escape, the murder and rape of the hero's allies, the hero's manipulation of the villain into destroying his own allies, attempted murder on both sides, and finally the perfect moment of revenge, when the hero finally tells the villain why he seeks vengeance. Throughout all of this, Bond's seething hatred is weirdly balanced Sanchez's own friendship with and admiration of Bond.

    I definitely agree with you! I have been rating the plot as the best in the series for years. I will add another reason:

    4. No other film in the series better showcases and establishes Bond's abilities as a spy and general cunning. He is not handed clues on a silver plate (in many Bond films one can argue the villains almost do the investigation for him), he doesn't have a powerful contact or ally. Yes, het gets some help from Q and Pam, sure, but he is basically on his own taking down a significantly more powerful villain and has to use every clever trick and skill you would associate with a super spy to achieve his objectives. Here Bond has to do some real investigation and spy work, and the Kurosawa inspired plot of Bond infiltrating an organization bringing it down from within is very interesting and refreshing compared to many of the mundane, formulaic plots in the series.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    I would add that LTK is a rare Bond film where if you get up to go to the fridge or toilet, you should probably pause it. The scenes build on each other in ways most Bond films don't. The setup of Krest is a big one, and the Stinger/Heller subplot is a more minor one.

    LTK isn't a series of vignettes. It's a well-structured thriller in a way Bond films generally aren't. I'd agree it's the best written film.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Interesting comments and examples of why I enjoy coming here so much to discuss films I've seen dozens of times over the years; it gives me new things to ponder and makes watching them fresh again.

    I can hear some of the GE admirers grumbling about the comment about the Bond-Sanchez relationship, in favor of Trevelyan. It's one I've never found particularly convincing, but that's another discussion.

    Some people may not have thought about LTK in the above terms after years of this time it's personal films, each one, basically. It was fresh 30 years ago and kind of threw some people, but with the wider acceptance of Dalton now in light of Craig's portrayal I hope it may bring people to see what was done without all the dismissive Miami Vice wannabe and winking fish comments thrown around.
  • Posts: 2,918
    I don't think the Treveylan-Bond relationship compares well with Sanchez-Bond. Dalton and Davi have more chemistry than Brosnan and Bean, and Bond's hatred of Sanchez is far more palpable.

    The winking fish complaint has never been justifiable. It's a brief gag at the very end of the movie, after all the dramatic issues have been resolved, and does no harm.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,139
    Revelator wrote: »
    The winking fish complaint has never been justifiable. It's a brief gag at the very end of the movie, after all the dramatic issues have been resolved, and does no harm.

    I agree. It never bothered me in the slightest.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    The winking fish complaint has never been justifiable. It's a brief gag at the very end of the movie, after all the dramatic issues have been resolved, and does no harm.

    I agree. It never bothered me in the slightest.

    As I've delved more into crazy Bond Fandom in recent years, I've been surprised how much that fish bothers people.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    As I've delved more into crazy Bond Fandom in recent years, I've been surprised how much that fish bothers people.

    It bothers me because it breaks the mood of the pool snog, which IMHO is the sexiest thing ever to happen in Bond.
  • Posts: 1,917
    The winking fish didn't bother me, either. I supposed people expected the film to stay dark the whole time.

    Another frequent LTK complaint I've never gotten is Felix smiling in his hospital room while talking with Bond on the phone after Sanchez's empire has fallen. There wasn't supposed to be some lightness after all the heavy action of the previous 2-plus hours? The guy was given the first positive news he'd had since the ordeal and I'm not sure how this small moment signifying their strong friendship wasn't what was supposed to happen. Let's send things off on a grim note is what they must've expected.

    The other standout thing about the Bond-Sanchez relationship besides the writing is it's two good actors at the top of their game. They apparently got along well behind the scenes and worked to bring that onscreen. I've said for years Sanchez is a strong villain back when LTK was the whipping boy film OHMSS was previously.

    With Bond and Trevelyan, I always found was it was a stretch for us to suddenly buy into Bond having a close friendship with another 00 and adding retro history, particularly with a new actor as Bond. He rarely interacted with any others in the film series. In GE, it comes down more to a contest of one-upping each other. This is part of the problem when they decided not to make Trevelyan the older mentor agent as the script originally planned.

  • Posts: 11,425
    LTK has grown on me over the years while I feel TLD is not quite as good as I used to think it was. On balance though these are still 2 great Bond films and I'd probably still give TLD the edge.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    Ah yes. Licence To Kill. One of my favourites but one that's causing me a little worry as I gear up for my 2019 Bondathon.

    I'm watching all these movies with my ten year old daughter this time around. I'm aware this movie has a higher than average age rating in comparison to the other films - and for very good reason.

    Therein lies my dilemma. Should I show it to my kid or not?

    I've opted to do so when the time comes.

    The way I see it - if I'm showing her all of them, I should show her all of them. I'm hoping that taken in context with all the other movies it shouldn't be too glaring. Plus - I trust her to be more into the story than anything else.

    Plus - I was probably about 10 or 11 when I saw it myself and it didn't do me any harm.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BondStu wrote: »
    Ah yes. Licence To Kill. One of my favourites but one that's causing me a little worry as I gear up for my 2019 Bondathon.

    I'm watching all these movies with my ten year old daughter this time around. I'm aware this movie has a higher than average age rating in comparison to the other films - and for very good reason.

    Therein lies my dilemma. Should I show it to my kid or not?

    I've opted to do so when the time comes.

    The way I see it - if I'm showing her all of them, I should show her all of them. I'm hoping that taken in context with all the other movies it shouldn't be too glaring. Plus - I trust her to be more into the story than anything else.

    Plus - I was probably about 10 or 11 when I saw it myself and it didn't do me any harm.

    I think most kids have seen a lot worse than LTK nowadays.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I think most kids have seen a lot worse than LTK nowadays.

    Ain't that the truth.

  • Posts: 2,918
    I saw LTK when I was 9 and turned out relatively well, though on occasion I enjoy throwing people in decompression chambers.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    Revelator wrote: »
    I saw LTK when I was 9 and turned out relatively well, though on occasion I enjoy throwing people in decompression chambers.

    Well yeah... but who doesn't?
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    edited September 2019 Posts: 984
    It is a great film, in many ways.
    I think it has a slightly unglamorous TV look at times that hurts it, and maybe it strays a bit far from the mothership in terms of what (cinema) Bond is, but it's a terrific film.

    Dalton is great, Davi is a top 5 villain and the brutality is necessary given the subject matter. Desmond Llewellyn gets more screen time, which is always welcome.

    I know it was vastly underappreciated at the time, but we where only 5 years removed from Sir Rog then, and this may have been too big a step in the other direction to be paletteable for the contemporary audience.

    Time has been kind to it, and I think true Bond fans appreciate it for trying something different, and mostly succeeding.
  • Posts: 19,339
    This is one of my favourite Bond films but I always get the anger in the back of my mind when the title could/should have been ‘Licence Revoked’.
    Did people think the Americans were that thick ?!
    ‘M’ even says that sentence in the Hemingway House scene so that would have shown what it meant ?

    A) Give the Americans some credit, it flopped there anyway.
    B) If the line is used in the film and Bond gives up his gun it’s obvious what it means.

    Maybe did my old buddy John Gardner want some royalties but with the oncoming legalities EON couldn’t afford to take the risk ?
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Regarding the Americans being thick, wasn't the Spooks tv show renamed 'MI5' in the US? :-? I think it is entirely possible that it was, at least, thought that the general public in the US wouldn't know the full meaning.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    I honestly think it's an old wives tale ( Americans misunderstanding the title Licence Revoked).
    I reckon Cubby may have seen LTK as a more palatable title all round. The USA thing was maybe a joke made by someone that has taken on a life of its own?

    Case in point, history tells us that John Lennon, when asked if Ringo was the best drummer in the world answered 'He's not even the best drummer in the Beatles'. Except, he never said it, some comic (Jasper Carrot or someone) said it, and it has become something else entirely, and attributed to Lennon

  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    I read that Americans generally associate the term "Licence Revoked" with having driving licences taken away. To be honest I do think "Licence To Kill" is the better title. Doesn't get much more Bond than that does it?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    NicNac wrote: »
    I honestly think it's an old wives tale ( Americans misunderstanding the title Licence Revoked).
    I reckon Cubby may have seen LTK as a more palatable title all round. The USA thing was maybe a joke made by someone that has taken on a life of its own?

    Case in point, history tells us that John Lennon, when asked if Ringo was the best drummer in the world answered 'He's not even the best drummer in the Beatles'. Except, he never said it, some comic (Jasper Carrot or someone) said it, and it has become something else entirely, and attributed to Lennon

    I don’t think it was that the Americans wouldn’t ’understand’ the term, but I think someone flagged that a certain percentage of them would associate the term with driving licences. With LTK, there are no mistakes.
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